robertthebard Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Famous last words of many fan boys from dead games. Irony: I have seen this exact post in every MMO forum I've ever been in. Most famously, in Rappelz, a Korean grinder that's about 15 years old now, but it's been dying since like week 3. Another irony: People going on and on about needing server merges will then be here pointing to server merges as proof that the game is dead. We've all seen the claims of "Oh, there are only 3 people on Fleet, the game is dead". I even saw a screenshot of it once, a couple years back, claiming that the game was dead. Of course, the poster neglected to post the map to show how many instances of Fleet were running when he took it. Can't have a little thing like facts interfering with the doom, now can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Incorrect....again. Just like how you incorrectly assumed that I was against the choice option in general... but if you don't even get the difference between an opinion and the reasoning process that leads to an opinion, then, notwithstanding your feeble attempts at deflection, it's perfectly clear to me how to value any of your comments here. And if you don't understand the concept of taking what is presented, using past knowledge of MMOS and leveling systems in a game and seeing how if this down leveling was made optional and how that would have made all the difference on it's acceptance or not. I'm not sure there is any help for you no matter which side of the fence you decide to be on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Irony: I have seen this exact post in every MMO forum I've ever been in. Most famously, in Rappelz, a Korean grinder that's about 15 years old now, but it's been dying since like week 3. Another irony: People going on and on about needing server merges will then be here pointing to server merges as proof that the game is dead. We've all seen the claims of "Oh, there are only 3 people on Fleet, the game is dead". I even saw a screenshot of it once, a couple years back, claiming that the game was dead. Of course, the poster neglected to post the map to show how many instances of Fleet were running when he took it. Can't have a little thing like facts interfering with the doom, now can we? Snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 And if you don't understand the concept of taking what is presented, using past knowledge of MMOS and leveling systems in a game and seeing how if this down leveling was made optional and how that would have made all the difference on it's acceptance or not. I'm not sure there is any help for you no matter which side of the fence you decide to be on. GW2 has a similar system and many people still play that, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Alright gonna ask this just the once, read the answers and then walk out. SNIP. Now, in all fairness, how many people are honestly going to click on that said button? The ones that want to level with their friend. The ones that want to group for a world boss. There are merits to this. It just needs to be optional because there are just as many that don't give a rats *** about being down scaled at all or anything in between but can see it being a game play feature some would enjoy. Just not everyone and not all the time. GW2 has a similar system and many people still play that, so... It's also a reason some don't play it. Edited October 2, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelaso Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Irony: I have seen this exact post in every MMO forum I've ever been in. Most famously, in Rappelz, a Korean grinder that's about 15 years old now, but it's been dying since like week 3. Another irony: People going on and on about needing server merges will then be here pointing to server merges as proof that the game is dead. We've all seen the claims of "Oh, there are only 3 people on Fleet, the game is dead". I even saw a screenshot of it once, a couple years back, claiming that the game was dead. Of course, the poster neglected to post the map to show how many instances of Fleet were running when he took it. Can't have a little thing like facts interfering with the doom, now can we? What game ???? yeah, that's what I thought lol. Look just because they can bleed enough people to avoid shutting off the servers doesn't mean anything. But go ahead, keep dismissing issues that people have with this and they will leave. And when enough leave the game loses money and then you guys get less and less updates until they finally just milk the cartel market. Holy derpity derp ... this isn't rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) And if you don't understand the concept of taking what is presented, using past knowledge of MMOS and leveling systems in a game and seeing how if this down leveling was made optional and how that would have made all the difference on it's acceptance or not. I'm not sure there is any help for you no matter which side of the fence you decide to be on. Cars generally have 4 wheels, steering, an engine, etc... but don't tell me a Toyota Camry has the same driving experience as an Audi A4 just because they both are 4-door sedans. They use the same principles, but to me the question is indeed about the implementation of the scaling system. What they are doing is far less of a deal than how they did it and why they did it. We have snips of the how, the why is still unanswered at this point. Maybe they have a good answer, maybe it's a terrible answer. That's why it remains to be seen and why information and experience should be the feedback that results in coding changes, not a bad taste left in your mouth by another game's attempt at a similar feature. Edited October 2, 2015 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavSalco Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Looks like we are roflstomping with or without it as one punch or 3 makes little difference anyway. Your point? So you agree that making level-sync optional would be a waste of time since even if you are downscaled you are still OP to mobs to a certain degree. I thought you are against level-sync but your sentence suggest quite on the contrary! Anyway, exactly HOW you want to implement it as optional. Do you have the insight into SWTOR's engine and know that it can work with this new feature? Activating and deactivating XP boosts is one thing, the level sync is on the complete different level of complexity. I'm all for giving people more options but it needs to be balanced. What's the point of downscaling yourself if someone else plays in the god mode and gets the same epic rewards as you? Since people playing in the god mode claim that they do it just "for fun", it seems they don't need any reward incentive so take away the scaled rewards from them. Let's assume two options: a) scaled level, scaled experience, scaled rewards b) not scaled level, no experience, no rewards Is that possible? Is this open to exploits? On paper this sounds like a huge possibility to exploit. You take a quest, you do in the god mode until the near end when you turn on scaling and finish it. Now you have epic rewards by roflstomping mods in the god mode. It completely contradicts the purpose of the level-sync system. Edited October 2, 2015 by PavSalco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm sure we will be seeing a dev post in relation to the issues raised in this thread. After all the Cartel Market changes has already had a response from the devs, yet none of the game play posts have had any really response to the issues raised by the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) And if you don't understand the concept of taking what is presented, using past knowledge of MMOS and leveling systems in a game and seeing how if this down leveling was made optional and how that would have made all the difference on it's acceptance or not. That was Dalagante and others maybe you had that discussion with, but I didn't say that. However, I do see some obvious flaws in your reasoning there. I'm not sure there is any help for you no matter which side of the fence you decide to be on. That's ok, no help is needed. In fact I don't need to be on either side of the fence. I'll be fine either way. You however may need help dealing with the inevitable change that is coming. Edited October 2, 2015 by Tsillah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelaso Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It doesn't even matter anyway. People can sit on here and just keep re hashing all the same view points over and over blowing this thread up but it all comes down to one thing. Money. They will either make it optional or they will lose a lot of players and with those players will come negative criticism rather true or not. And not just here. Blogs, youtube videos, etc.... It will not end well. A happy customer will tell maybe a few people about it but a pissed off customer will tell every single person they know. Just how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Cars generally have 4 wheels, steering, an engine, etc... but don't tell me a Toyota Camry has the same driving experience as an Audi A4 just because they both are 4-door sedans. They use the same principles, but to me the question is indeed about the implementation of the scaling system. What they are doing is far less of a deal than how they did it and why they did it. We have snips of the how, the why is still unanswered at this point. Maybe they have a good answer, maybe it's a terrible answer. That's why it remains to be seen and why information and experience should be the feedback that results in coding changes, not a bad taste left in your mouth by another game's attempt at a similar feature. And yet both cars get you from A to B in the very same manner. One shotting mobs or 3 shotting them doesn't scream the need for a mechanic that needs to be placed on everyone in game. World bosses (solo or grouped) or going to help a friend that wants more experience or rewards (or just for fun) doesn't take a lot of thought on how that could be done as optional instead of a forced feature on everyone that steps on the planet. It's not a hard train of thought to see if this was optional how much more it would be accepted by gamers after playing SWTOR for 4 years, to now be down leveled simply because you went back to some old planet. Interesting feature - yes but not as an all across the board forced change all the time. Better and more accepted feature if optional. I doubt anyone really needs to play SWTOR to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakakiba Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What game ???? yeah, that's what I thought lol. Look just because they can bleed enough people to avoid shutting off the servers doesn't mean anything. But go ahead, keep dismissing issues that people have with this and they will leave. And when enough leave the game loses money and then you guys get less and less updates until they finally just milk the cartel market. Holy derpity derp ... this isn't rocket science. How many nails will it take for that to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) So why stomp on someone enjoyment and entertainment they have been doing and enjoying for the last 4 years all so you can be down leveled and force everyone to do the same. There are 2 sides to this. Both side could be happy with an optional choice of down leveling or not. You werent interested in doing em anyway how am i stomping on it exactly. If your not in the same group, someone isn't getting a reward. If you're grouped, it scales everyone in the group. Easily solved like I said. Yeah. 60 farming WBs for lv 17 trash is such reward isnt it. Pretty sure they do is just for the hell of it rather than reward, lessening everyone elses reward. You'll have to show that research and what it applies to. If you cant take the effort of researching against it I see no point in showing content for it either. I will, if you'll show some effort too, rather than sit here asking everything to be brought to you. BW choices nearly did. Brought it to the brink. F2P was their only saving move. BW's choice has harmed this game making sure it's potential is lessened. It's a good F2P game but BW made sure to screw up it's subscription only game by bad choices. Could you specify what those choises were that lessened it, rather than just insisting on them. Edited October 2, 2015 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelaso Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) How many nails will it take for that to happen? How many are you willing to sit here through ? When your guild dies because they went off with their friends to play whatever game they ran to. Everyone has their breaking point and you will too. As awesome as Star Wars is how much fun are you really going to have on minimally populated server. Edited October 2, 2015 by Kelaso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eanelinea Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) The majority of us AGAINST the downscaling aren't against it solely because we can't solo low level mobs. We're not against it because of only not being able to solo world bosses. We're not against it to gank lowbies (people still open world pvp? Maybe during Gree event on my server). We're not against it only for RPing purposes. We're AGAINST the MANDATORY downscaling because they're taking away our CHOICE. Us 'naysayers' are all for the damn down scaling. Here, bring it on, woo! But make it an OPTION so we can choose if we actually want to do it or not. If I'm 65 I DON'T want to suddenly find myself 50 levels lower because I set foot on a planet. I don't want to be agroed by trash mobs as I explore the zone, or head to a datacron or pick up some mats I might need. You guys may enjoy having to fight your way through **** all the time, but not everyone does. And why the HELL do players always have to put their ideas of what a game should be onto others? People like soloing, grouping players want us to group. People like chilling on low level planets at high levels to grab a node, lowbies want us to help them or be downscaled with no choice in the matter. If Joe Blow wants to spend his time picking dingleberries off his *** on fleet, or a low level world, or smacking around a manka cat, if he gets enjoyment out of it for his subscription, hey who the hell are you to say he's doing it wrong? All we want is an optional toggle, or item, or whatever to turn it off when we DON'T want to be downscaled. And turn it on when we do want to be or we need to be for a kotfe related quest. It's NOT hard to understand why we want OPTIONS. OPTIONS are good, it lets players play however they want within the TOS of the game company they're supporting. It's not harming you guys wanting mandatory, so just let us have our option to opt out. Edited October 2, 2015 by Eanelinea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It doesn't even matter anyway. People can sit on here and just keep re hashing all the same view points over and over blowing this thread up but it all comes down to one thing. Money. They will either make it optional or they will lose a lot of players and with those players will come negative criticism rather true or not. And not just here. Blogs, youtube videos, etc.... It will not end well. A happy customer will tell maybe a few people about it but a pissed off customer will tell every single person they know. Just how it is. Or they leave it mandatory and people discover they like the change and continue to subscribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We're AGAINST the MANDATORY downscaling because they're taking away our CHOICE. And people who have wanted a sync never had the choice to have it before. I think its a fair trade to play 4years unsynced, and next 4 years synced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelaso Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Or they leave it mandatory and people discover they like the change and continue to subscribe. Nope, wrong again. This isn't the days of Everquest and it being the only game to choose from. Those days are never coming back. People will just leave. And the worst part is they won't even tell you why. Do we really need another Subscribers, tell us why you are leaving thread like we had back at launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryniloym Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 And people who have wanted a sync never had the choice to have it before. I think its a fair trade to play 4years unsynced, and next 4 years synced. I like this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredderStatus Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I have been a sub since release... Level syncing is the reason I never played gw2. Please make this optional. I have invested so much money into the current systems you had in place because I believed in the changes you were making... But this change is not swtor. 4.0 is uprooting everything you had going for you. You are basically slapping your most dedicated customers in the face with these level sync changes. I really do not want to unsub.... But forcing this change will result in the loss of me as a customer. That is for sure. Some of you may say" k bye.." " no on cares" You should take a look at yourself and the status of your game... Loss of paying customers.... Any customers is a bad thing. Especially with the current server populations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The sad thing is, there's a very easy and happy medium Bioware could strike. • make it optional • make all Heroic missions require it for rewards People would use it...they just wouldn't be forced to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Nope, wrong again. This isn't the days of Everquest and it being the only game to choose from. Those days are never coming back. People will just leave. And the worst part is they won't even tell you why. Do we really need another Subscribers, tell us why you are leaving thread like we had back at launch. The only thing wrong is you thinking that it isn't a possibility that people will re-sub for this new feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelaso Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The only thing wrong is you thinking that it isn't a possibility that people will re-sub for this new feature. Sure, some will ... someone has to be the sucker in this situation. You will learn how things really work one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelaso Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) The sad thing is, there's a very easy and happy medium Bioware could strike. • make it optional • make all Heroic missions require it for rewards People would use it...they just wouldn't be forced to use it. I would support this 100% It's also sad how we want those who you like it to have and yet from the other side of the fence it's get used to it or get out. Edited October 2, 2015 by Kelaso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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