Level synch = death of SWTOR

[ZavienUK]

Yes, you quoted a guy that quoted Max saying this:

 

So, since you seem to want to defend Max here, explain to me how a griefer isn't depriving a player of their fun. Since we both seem to share the same definition of the term, it should be fairly easy for you to explain.

 

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here. Max said:

 

"As long as they're not actively depriving others of enjoyment of the game, I don't care"

 

And by the very definition we all agree on, griefing would NOT fall under that definition (of max not caring) because griefing DOES deprive others of enjoyment. Max was talking about not caring about a situation where somebody is slightly gaming the system, but isn't depriving anybody of any fun. I think Max WOULD care if somebody was griefing. I certainly would.

 

A griefer IS depriving a player of their fun. I think we are all on the same page here but confusing the hell out of each other.

Edited October 3, 2015 by ZavienUK

[SelinaH]

I have to say I disagree with that, you have gotten maybe one or max two new abilities when moving from planet quest to bonus series, you get new abilities very slowly during the middle lvls. Unless you're a marauder (they got shítton on abilities). Having one extra CC or regen on my bar makes very little difference when fighting a mob of my lvl on a slightly higher area.

I think it would probably depend on the planet in question. You may be right for planets where the bonus series comes immediately after the planetary arc -- for instance, Tatooine or Imperial Balmorra. It may make more of a difference someplace like Alderaan or Hoth, where you're coming back after having gained 6-8 levels.

Why would they though then their intention was to remake all quest rewards? A button to move to completely separate unsynced planet instancewith no rewards would make more sense here than having areas that were suddenly unsynced.

Not all areas have repeatable quest rewards, though. Why not sync just the reward-related areas, then?

[kodrac]

Every single one? Got a source for that? If that's true that actually reduces one concern about this system being mandatory somewhat.

 

Just from what I saw on the live stream. Dulfy has a screencap of it. And they have a terminal that takes you right to the area, so you don't have to fight your way there.

 

http://dulfy.net/2015/09/30/swtor-knights-of-fallen-empire-livestream-coverage/

Edited October 3, 2015 by kodrac

[Kiesu]

Not all areas have repeatable quest rewards, though. Why not sync just the reward-related areas, then?

Because they made the sync with groups in mind, and decided to allow max-lvls to quest with lowbies without making it absolute faceroll for them or punishing them out of XP for questing with a higher lv friend for a while.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Kiesu

[Eanelinea]

As I have said in another thread.

 

It is not that we don't KNOW that we'll still have all our lvl 65 gear and abilities. We know we will.

 

It's not that we don't know we can roflstomp that heroic boss as low level down scaler. We know we can.

 

We understand the point behind the down scaling. Trust me, us naysayers KNOW why it's here. We're not dumb.

 

We KNOW there are people who are quite happy and pleased this is coming. We KNOW this and we're FINE with that.

 

What we are trying to get across to those of you who are thick skulled is we're angry and pissed off that we don't have a choice in this.

 

If we want the rewards for being down scaled, we'll grab the heroic, port down to the heroic, do it, collect the reward and be done with it. If we want to help low level friends/family or guildies, we'll go to said planet and help them out. If we want to group up for World Bosses or other things, we'll go to that planet and do it. ALL downscaled. Yes, we will.

 

The thing is, if we want to go to low level planet x as our NORMAL level 65 self, that's OUR decision to make. If we want to go to the low level planet as a downscaled low level, then we'll down scale and do it.

 

We're ONLY asking to have the choice in this. That's all we all want. We don't want to be forced to have to do this if we step off our ship and walk out onto the low level planet.

 

I don't understand why no one is comprehending this. Would anyone enjoy being FORCED to pvp? Would anyone enjoy being FORCED to raid? Would anyone enjoy being FORCED to have to do their class story, planet story AND side quests? No 12xp, no experience boosts, no rested or guild experience boosts allowed, but you have to no matter what do every single class story, planet story and side quest?

 

You wouldn't like it, would you?

 

It's the same for us. We DON'T MIND THE DOWNSCALING! We just want to have an option on turning it off if we don't feel like using it that moment, or turning it on if we do want to use it.

[Kiesu]

What we are trying to get across to those of you who are thick skulled is we're angry and pissed off that we don't have a choice in this.

Those "thick skulled" understand your plea for optionalism and very few are actually against it, but we see many issues with such toggle which have all been discussed many times in this thread already.

[Eanelinea]

Those "thick skulled" understand your plea for optionalism and very few are actually against it, but we see many issues with such toggle which have all been discussed many times in this thread already.

 

I've been in this game for almost 4 years. I've never missed a single day, ever since launch. Seriously.

 

I am on a pve server so I've never seen high levels ganking low levels. But now that pvp servers are down to almost nothing, it's a moot point.

 

I rarely see high levels loling across the low level planets killing everything in their wake to make the low level's life miserable. Even when **I** was leveling low level alts I never had a problem, ever.

 

Most low levels wanted a higher level to run them through their stuff quickly. Not very many cared about their experience until turn ins.

 

Sure there are some bad players who like to grief other players, but I've rarely actually seen it in this game. WOW? I see it ALL the time. This game? Barely.

 

So all these oh high levels suck the game sucks type of comments are minor things happening. And I've got 52 toons total across pve and rp servers. On ALL of those servers I haven't seen any issues mentioned, at all and I play from about 5p to 3am almost every day.

[SelinaH]

Because they made the sync with groups in mind, and decided to allow max-lvls to quest with lowbies without making it absolute faceroll for them or punishing them out of XP for questing with a higher lv friend for a while.

This is what I get for posting while sleep-deprived.

 

I was somehow still, during this discussion, thinking along the lines of, "Oh, people could still toggle level sync on to help their friends." My poor brain didn't quite wrap itself around the fact that we were debating the merits of area sync as an alternative solution to toggle sync rather than an addition.

 

My bad. And now I think it's time for bed.

[ZavienUK]

Just from what I saw on the live stream. Dulfy has a screencap of it. And they have a terminal that takes you right to the area, so you don't have to fight your way there.

 

http://dulfy.net/2015/09/30/swtor-knights-of-fallen-empire-livestream-coverage/

 

I watched the livestream. Unfortunately it doesn't confirm this is the case across the board.

[ScarletBlaze]

I watched the livestream. Unfortunately it doesn't confirm this is the case across the board.

 

I can tell you one for sure that has been changed by looking at it, since my boyfriend and I just recently finished Drumond Kaas, Friends of Old was (or is right now) a Heroic 4 and it is listed as a Heroic 2 in the new expansion according to the list.

[-Spc]

I watched the livestream. Unfortunately it doesn't confirm this is the case across the board.

Go here: http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/v/18528261

And go to 1 hour 59 minutes 07 seconds.

[Kiesu]

I've been in this game for almost 4 years. I've never missed a single day, ever since launch. Seriously.

I played since Beta. Does this rise my credibility somehow? No, so lets not try to look fancy like those lv 60 rolling on Korriban trying to look cool.

 

I am on a pve server so I've never seen high levels ganking low levels. But now that pvp servers are down to almost nothing, it's a moot point.

PVP server is my main server, and it was about the time they did something about them. And I mean, even more than the sync would do alone, we're in a serious need of server merge, even if it'd mean merging with PVE server, I think half of the PVP server at this point would be ok with that.

 

I rarely see high levels loling across the low level planets killing everything in their wake to make the low level's life miserable. Even when **I** was leveling low level alts I never had a problem, ever.

Many people in this topic claim to do this a lot themselves. Odd you haven't met any.

Judging by the amount of max-lvs soloing heroics and WBs for conquest or lols is quite high.

 

Sure there are some bad players who like to grief other players, but I've rarely actually seen it in this game. WOW? I see it ALL the time. This game? Barely.

You have been very lucky then. Or I have been very unlucky. Or maybe there griefers just like PVP servers in general more.

 

So all these oh high levels suck the game sucks type of comments are minor things happening. And I've got 52 toons total across pve and rp servers. On ALL of those servers I haven't seen any issues mentioned, at all and I play from about 5p to 3am almost every day.

Your experience =/= everyone elses experience. Your time spent in game =/= more valuable than everyone elses, so no need to count. We get it, you uber pro loyal 24/7 jedi highfive

Also, you need to get out more.

 

I have ~50 characters too across multiple servers. 25 of which are max lv. Also, I take breaks to play other MMOs, as I am not "one game to rule them all" type you seem to be, so I have plenty of experience with other mmos to compare. And comparing to those, this sync is a smart move, and welcomed.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Kiesu

[ScarletBlaze]

What we are trying to get across to those of you who are thick skulled is we're angry and pissed off that we don't have a choice in this.

 

I have basically stayed out of this debate but some of the people you are saying are stubborn may have very good reasons right now not to support you in this.

 

I have since launch tried to support people in options for different playstyles, pvp, operations, etc, but when this expansion was launch I was one of the ones that requested if BW could give an option to those of us that wanted to be able to group with our boyfriends, friends, spouses, etc, a way that we could do the missions once and allow us to let the mission count no matter what the outcome was for us.

 

When this was requested we were told get over it, deal with, bioware doesn't have the time or resources to do that for people like you.

 

We didn't keep arguing but anytime someone would bring it up we were constantly told that.

 

People here keep saying don't force us to play your way but that is essentially what people told us when we asked for an option to group up and do the missions once, not twice.

 

So some of us are not being stubborn. We have just been on the receiving end.

 

Have a good weekend.

Edited October 3, 2015 by ScarletBlaze

[ZavienUK]

I can tell you one for sure that has been changed by looking at it, since my boyfriend and I just recently finished Drumond Kaas, Friends of Old was (or is right now) a Heroic 4 and it is listed as a Heroic 2 in the new expansion according to the list.

 

Yeah thanks ScarletBlaze, I know some have definitely changed.

[ZavienUK]

Go here: http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/v/18528261

And go to 1 hour 59 minutes 07 seconds.

 

I watched the stream, I know some have changed, I was asking if we knew if they had been changed across the board, and I don't think we know, nor would it be safe to assume.

[Kiesu]

I watched the livestream. Unfortunately it doesn't confirm this is the case across the board.

I'd say its evidence enough they changed all H4 on Korriban to H2 already.

 

//edit lol I mean Kaas not Korriban herpderp good night

Edited October 3, 2015 by Kiesu

[Eanelinea]

I played since Beta. Does this rise my credibility somehow? No, so lets not try to look fancy like those lv 60 rolling on Korriban trying to look cool.

 

I'm saying I've been here a long time and have SEEN alot of stuff. I don't care if people think I'm cool or not.

 

Many people in this topic claim to do this a lot themselves. Odd you haven't met any.

Judging by the amount of max-lvs soloing heroics and WBs for conquest or lols is quite high.

 

Nothing wrong with soloing world bosses or heroics? Sometimes we're doing it for a weekly. There's that one that requires 3 world bosses to be killed.

 

You have been very lucky then. Or I have been very unlucky. Or maybe there griefers just like PVP servers in general more.

 

I've found most, not all, griefers are on pvp servers. Couldn't say why.

 

Your experience =/= everyone elses experience. Your time spent in game =/= more valuable than everyone elses, so no need to count. We get it, you uber pro loyal 24/7 jedi highfive

Also, you need to get out more.

 

I didn't say my time is more important. If I thought that, I'd demand a **** ton of stuff from bioware. Not just this option level sync thing but I mean EVERYTHING I want. I don't cause my time is just as important as everyone else's. I get out fine. I just only play one game.

 

I have ~50 characters too across multiple servers. 25 of which are max lv. Also, I take breaks to play other MMOs, as I am not "one game to rule them all" type you seem to be, so I have plenty of experience with other mmos to compare. And comparing to those, this sync is a smart move, and welcomed.

 

I take breaks, go out, work, etc. But I only play this game and this game only. Unlike some people here, I can't afford more than one sub. (I know not everyone can, just saying).

 

I'm just saying, there are those who want mandatory and those who don't.

 

NEITHER SIDE IS RIGHT OR WRONG. It's what we want/don't want on both sides. But Bioware needs to know 100% of players, on forums or in the game right now are neither completely happy with this nor completely upset about this.

[Eanelinea]

I have basically stayed out of this debate but some of the people you are saying are stubborn may have very good reasons right now not to support you in this.

 

I have since launch tried to support people in options for different playstyles, pvp, operations, etc, but when this expansion was launch I was one of the ones that requested if BW could give an option to those of us that wanted to be able to group with our boyfriends, friends, spouses, etc, a way that we could do the missions once and allow us to let the mission count no matter what the outcome was for us.

 

When this was requested we were told get over it, deal with, bioware doesn't have the time or resources to do that for people like you.

 

We didn't keep arguing but anytime someone would bring it up we were constantly told that.

 

People here keep saying don't force us to play your way but that is essentially what people told us when we asked for an option to group up and do the missions once, not twice.

 

So some of us are not being stubborn. We have just been on the receiving end.

 

Have a good weekend.

 

The solo story play has been around since the game launched. SW, Agent, Jedi Knight, etc THOSE ARE SOLO STORIES! If you and your boyfriend were both playing Jedi Knights, you would have to do the Jedi Knight story twice. It's been like that since launch. Same with the STORY part of KOTFE. It's solo story.

 

Out in the open zone, doing planet quests and side quests, events and the like you can group up with your boyfriend until you two get tired of each other.

 

This level sync is completely different. It's not 'oh I'm playing with my BF now, yay' it's a matter of 'okay do I want to be gimp and play with newbs or do I want to retain my level I earned and decide if I want to play with newbs.'

 

Apples and oranges, girlie. I'm sorry to say.

[Shipwright]

But that's a total disaster! I and so many others will never be able to do anything at-level solo...

 

This seems to be the issue I see people have if they object to the mandatory down level. It's anecdotal, yes, just people whom I know. But this same thing was cited as the reason for their dislike.

 

A day after the stream and announcement, 5 players in the guild I am in quit the game. It's a casual guild, a bunch of friends. Today 2 more followed. Most of the players talk on skype, and I finally got to ask them what they disliked so much.

 

This was it. They like to over level things a bit, which will not be possible anymore. They just don't want to deal with it. I play mostly healers, I rolled all the healers and told them, I'll come along for anything and heal if they'd like.

 

They wouldn't mind it but it was the principle that turned them off. They'd prefer to over level a bit and just do it. It's how they like to play, and they have no interest otherwise. They completely lost interest.

 

3 have characters in another game and went back to that game exclusively now. 2 others followed immediately. Now the other 2, today, say they rolled characters there as well.

 

Anyway, what you said caught my attention. And going by the dev post, you won't be roughly 2 levels above the planet. You'll be at max level for that planet.

 

I'm OK with the downscaling, but clearly others are not.

 

The down leveling isn't chasing me away, but as word spreads ( most people do not follow the forums and dev posts and streams etc), I am seeing people leave. Their subs are still active for now I assume, but they have indeed left. I know their leaving is supposed to be good for the game, but I disagree.

 

Incidentally they've asked me to make a healer with them in the game; seems few want to roll a healer in games. I'll give it a shot. Not Star Wars, for which I have real soft spot, but maybe I can have fun there too. Been playing swtor exclusively for a long time now so it might be nice for a change.

[-JE-BLAZAR-]

I am against it.

 

I see that this feature has potential, and can revive the old planets and make it more challenging and more fun hopefully. But the way they want to implement it now is just not the right way and gives a weird feeling that your HP and stats will go up and down like some jojo. That is why I am against it.

 

I will go in detail about this in the text below:

It makes me really worried and what I know a lot of people dont like is, to see that all your hard work for getting lets say 70k health, was all for nothing, because you will be perhaps 70k health on Zakuul with best endgame gear but once you come on Korriban/Tython it will be suddenly 2k health!

That is understandable if you think that you need this to make Korriban/Tython challenging again.

But the point is, nobody really likes to see their health/stats/damage/healing go up and down like a jojo.

I think the system has potential if they rechanged your health to 1 health/stat number across all the planets (in this way you can avoid confusion about your stats and avoid the feeling you loose something you worked (hard) for).

And as 2nd option if that is too much work then I would simply delete the silly and weird ability all our characters have when they are +5-10 levels higher then mobs they fight with, those abilities are called ''avoid/parried/deflect/dodge'' (I think! I am not sure anymore what all the names are).

If you are even higher then 10+ levels then you get unkilleable for mobs, it is almost like a cheat code. If you remove those ''avoid'' abilities and keep the stats then you get a bit more challenging fights from low level mobs but you can keep and enjoy the stats you worked hard for, especially at endgame level 60-65. There is for a lot of players otherwise no craving anymore to get best gear, or otherwise if you keep level sync then what is the point of even getting the best armor, the only thing you do it is to maintain at every level that you have the best stats to get buffed to the best stats everytime on lower level planets. I understand they want to give low level planets a boost, but the way they do it now is weird and will not be loved by a lot of people I am afraid.

Like I said it needs some redisign and once that is done they should ask us if we like it, by asking us to vote in a poll.

Much better then just to say nothing and suddenly surprise us with this 2,5 weeks before early access.

 

Greets!

[Mourkoth]

So, I left for a bit to get some popcorn, and missed most of the discussion.

 

Has anyone provided evidence that the community majority supports the opinion of the original poster?

Edited October 3, 2015 by Mourkoth

[t-darko]

I think it is clear as the difference of night and day that level sync is not well received by the community... Copious amount of threads showing the distaste of it.

 

Think and believe, how many of the games users do you actually think roam this forums yet again, how many of those who do do you think post? This is a mob gathering, and those my friend only seems large when you stand in center of them, blind to every impression outside that mob!! Group thinking is an academic term for it

[TheWalkingSuicid]

Are the developers actually caring about the opinion of the players ??

Nearly all players have a negative attitude towards this "feature"...

Hope they care at least a bit, and make this "feature" optional.

[Vasflam]

If you figure amount of whine and noise generated in general chat of forums equals some collective " obvious community majority", it means you live in reality where cartel slot machine and changes made to it is the single most important feature of the game. Spending 20 mins on general chat section of forums should suffice in making it clear why no sane dev would ever spend a single second keeping taps on whine here when trying to decide what people might actually like/dislike.

 

 

You lot are QQing about changes and features you've not even gotten to try in practice yet.

Central portion of this epic forum rage revolves around " I wanna run around killing gray mobs, it is my playstyle!"

 

This whole whine-a-fest is utterly ridiculous. It absolutely mystifies me what in this is so gosh durned upsetting. Waaah, mah grey mobs! frakin LOL.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Vasflam

[LayneStaley]

Killing grey elites is boring. I love the idea of level sync. *Runs away from angry mob who told us they'd unsub a week ago*