Game Update 4.0 Class Changes: Jedi Consular + Sith Inquisitor

[xDanekx]

I like it .

[Glower]

TLDR: Stop whining.

 

You should work in Bioware. Let's buff them again they are soooo weak, poor sorcs! /cry

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

You should work in Bioware. Let's buff them again they are soooo weak, poor sorcs! /cry

 

may i remeber you, all these nerf sorcs threads are ridicolous ? If they nerf sorcs, judging by 4.0 changes, pt's will be confirmed as best class in game for bith pve and pvp content, which is already the king of both

[Plicitous]

At least they were smart enough to release the news at the end of a Friday where it was guaranteed to get the least amount of attention possible. "Taking out the trash" with a bad news Friday info dump is a time honored tradition in America. This tells me they know these changes are unpopular which in turns tells me they don't give a damn that the vast majority of pvp'ers are apoplectic that Sorcs are being given such a gift.

 

The sum total of these changes is complete disregard for fundamental concepts of class balance. They started down this path long ago by violating some of the core tenets that make combat fun and most importantly competitive. For example, highly mobile ranged classes that can cast on the move. It's not a surprise these classes dominate while their ranged brothers and sisters with less mobility and/or those who have to attack from a static position fare poorly in comparison. This is MMO Combat 101 level stuff we're talking about. There's simply no downside, no compromise that has to be made when you make the decision to play a Sorc in 4.0. Unless you refuse to play one on aesthetic grounds there's a strong case to be made that not playing one is sub-optimal play.

 

These changes are crap, but in truth they're just the logical conclusion to a shift that started long ago. Even our virtual worlds are stratified and plagued by inequality.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Plicitous

[sartt]

Can someone from the combat team please explain the rational behind these changes mad dash a 20 meter uncontrolled run versus a teleport or jet packing back 20 meters.

 

Does no one in the development team play the game or read the forums. This is so clearly unbalance playing half the classes is going to be trolling as you will just be rubbish no matter what you do

thee devs at bioware are doing drugs.

[PoliteAssasin]

The devs of this game know their own classes. It;s their game. In my experience ALL the classes of this game have been equally fun and equally easy to play. The problem here is that if the player does not know how to properly play class-1, but does really well on class-2, then class-2 MUST be OP and class-1 MUST absolutely suck.

 

The other distorted view players seem to be having is in PvP scenarios - player-A gets his rear-end kicked by player-B. Thus player-B absolutely MUST be OP and needs nerfed (this is typical PvP mentality - nothing can POSSIBLY be wrong with the player, it HAS to be the game whenever they lose a match).

 

The bolded is funny. You do realize that most developers are clueless at their own game right? Bungie used to catch flak for their ineptitude in Halo matchmaking. If you saw the tag on your team, you knew you were dealing with anchors. I probably shouldn't mention the countless streams of SWTOR developers struggling to play the class with the same finesse as a one armed child.

 

The issue of balance when it comes to ranged vs melee is impartial. Sorcs are the best example of a class that is completely unbalanced. If these 4.0 changes are indeed going live, they will have zero counters. They have the best mobility in game, they are being given a teleport, they have a 10 second godmode ability that heals them and doesn't hinder their ability to regenerate to 100%. That same ability will no longer bound them to their position, allowing them more mobility. They have a ridiculous amount of roots, a knockback and sufficient stuns. And if that wasn't enough, now they can be immune to leaps and pulls for 6 seconds. A clueless sorc will be able to keep any melee class at range 100% of the time. Melee will continue to derpwalk towards their opponent while being slowed, stunned, rooted, and outrun. The teleport presents a minor problem for ranged classes in that sorcs have guaranteed LOS/heal 2 full now with phase walk.

 

You don't see an issue with this class having zero counters now due to it's unparalleled effectiveness at staying away from opponents while dealing damage? It's a sad day for star wars when the jedi/sith saber classes are the weakest in the game. Range has 100% up time, while melee spends 3/4 of the match chasing after opponents. And when they finally catch up to them, there are a myriad of options to gain range once again. If you find that to be balanced, perhaps you have a future working at the Bioware Austin branch.

Edited September 26, 2015 by PoliteAssasin

[Faelandaea]

We can easily disagree on that part, but it still doesn't change that I have no issue playing any class in the game even in Ops. I am a slow learner with a VERY low learning curve, so if i can successfully play a class, then anyone here should be VERY highly successful at it without all these "issues" that keep getting mentioned. I'm starting to think people complain about patches just to try to look like math nerds or something.

 

"ZOMGZ! Dis patchz iz gonna mak mah healz caszt 0.0000007 secundz slowerz!!!! BW SUCKZEZ!!!"

 

That's about hat I am seeing in a lot of these posts. just saying.

[Fordbird]

We can easily disagree on that part, but it still doesn't change that I have no issue playing any class in the game even in Ops. I am a slow learner with a VERY low learning curve, so if i can successfully play a class, then anyone here should be VERY highly successful at it without all these "issues" that keep getting mentioned. I'm starting to think people complain about patches just to try to look like math nerds or something.

 

 

 

That's about hat I am seeing in a lot of these posts. just saying.

 

Even in OPs you say huh?.....woooow. Try taking a merc/mando into ranked and tell me how good you play. Or a sniper. Or a marauder. I don't think people are upset because the guy next to them in a raid environment is going to have a new phase walk or mobile barrier. I'm thinking the pvp side of this is what has players (except sages/sorcs) in disbelief.

[Faelandaea]

The PvP side I cannot comment on because I have honestly never done PvP. So on that part I'll let the others battle it out

[DecRaan]

I dare, no I just ask any Bioware dev to tell me in good conscience that Mercs and Sorcs in 4.0 will be even comparable. We have all acknowledged and dealt with your major ***** for Sorcs in the recent patches, but this has gotten out of hand. Even if you remove Force Mobility from Force Barrier it's still ridiculous. You give Mercs a 20m jump backwards but then you also add shadowstep for two classes and mad dash for warriors. But to "even things out" you nerf hold the line which let's be honest was only useful for PTs for mobility purposes. Do you see the problem here?

 

I, as a long paying customer and thousands of others plead you guys to sit down and actually play a couple dozen of regs and arenas with all the specs. No brainstorm balacing, no theory-crafting rotations, no favoritism, just sit down and play your own game. After you realize why there is a 1500 rating difference between Mercs/Snipers and Sorcs/PTs, you can turn to the community and actually read our suggestions.

 

You guys are smart. Every now and then you look past the EA-induced greed and do some real cool things like the Stronghold system and the new species. Not to mention the big one this year, KotFE. But you guys must know there is only so much hype the game can get from the movies and you'll be stuck with us veterans again. What keeps us subbed? ENDGAME. PVP. HM/NiM OPS. If you only want people to sub for a month or two, grab a couple thousand of cartel coins and leave the game, that's fine but it's not a smart and sustainable business model.

 

PVP doesn't need a lot of tweaks. It needs your attention to us and an unbiased attitude. I understand your combat team is limited in staff. Get in touch with streamers and veteran players, I'm sure most of them would be more than happy to discuss these things with you. Please guys, we don't even ask for that extra mile. Just do a job you'd be honestly satisfied with and proud of. Thanks.

Edited September 26, 2015 by DecRaan

[warstory]

Question does barrier while moving allow u to attack too or is it still a channel

[DecRaan]

It's obviously the same as before but now movement doesn't break it.

[SonzeK]

Sage healers = new tank.

[DarkSaberMaster]

The PvP side I cannot comment on because I have honestly never done PvP. So on that part I'll let the others battle it out

 

Gee. I sure couldn't tell from the insight of your comments

 

The devs of this game know their own classes. It;s their game. In my experience ALL the classes of this game have been equally fun and equally easy to play. The problem here is that if the player does not know how to properly play class-1, but does really well on class-2, then class-2 MUST be OP and class-1 MUST absolutely suck.

 

The other distorted view players seem to be having is in PvP scenarios - player-A gets his rear-end kicked by player-B. Thus player-B absolutely MUST be OP and needs nerfed (this is typical PvP mentality - nothing can POSSIBLY be wrong with the player, it HAS to be the game whenever they lose a match).

 

You never pvped, but that is your stance on people who play it? Lol

Edited September 26, 2015 by DarkSaberMaster

[Psychopyro]

LOL 2 words

 

Hamster Ball....

[Master-Nala]

I'll bet that barrier will be removed from force mobility. And if you read some SWTOR fan sites I'll bet you'll agree with me.

[DecRaan]

Yeah a lot of us know where to look for more up-to-date info but Sorcs will still be incredibly op compared to other ranged classes. Hell if you heard what is currently being done with the Merc's Supercharge, you know these changes are even more outrageous.

[Master-Nala]

Yeah a lot of us know where to look for more up-to-date info but Sorcs will still be incredibly op compared to other ranged classes. Hell if you heard what is currently being done with the Merc's Supercharge, you know these changes are even more outrageous.

 

They will be overpowered in solo ranked compared to Mercs and Snipers. But that's only because solo ranked is a dumb game mode that rewards self-sufficiency more than anything else. In PvE where damage and the ability to bypass mechanics rules, Mercs and Snipers do very well. Mercs and Snipers do very well when they get team support, which is how the game is meant to be played.

 

Sorcs are getting heals, damage and utility nerfed in various degrees and people are still whining that they will be overpowered. All because of a game mode that broken and should be fixed. Sigh...

[Transcendent]

Just do a job you'd be honestly satisfied with and proud of. Thanks.

 

Well, if the combat team came over from Mythic / Warhammer Online, we can see why the PvP in that failed. It's clear that they are completely out of touch, and while they may have a vision of what they want PvP to be, they clearly don't have a flipping clue about how to balance a game so it is at least fun for all of the players, not just the ones that have a specific class.

 

PvE is still viable for most classes I'm guessing. Not that we're getting any new content aside from story.

[DecRaan]

But that's only because solo ranked is a dumb game mode

 

Yeah solo ranked is dumb but tell that to Bioware after they removed ranked 8v8. If we both read the most recent info dump, we know both IO and Virulence are getting nerfed so we really can't tell if Mercs and Snipers are gonna be that good in PVE. I don't say they will fall back into the mediocre parsing classes but Sorcs aren't in a bad positon compared to them.

 

And these changes affect PVP in general. In 8v8 when everybody and their mother gets a gap closer nerfing HO and giving a measly 20 m backwards jump without any rootbreak or leap immunity (w/ no utility needed) is just not enough. You know it, I know it and Maker knows they know it.

 

It's become fashionable to blame all PVP problems on ranked and while it's true, regs are just as affected when it takes 3 average damage dealers to take down a freaking healing sorc.

Edited September 26, 2015 by DecRaan

[Icestar]

Sounds interesting

[FerkWork]

That's nice BW but heres what I wish Sorcs/Sages would have for Raiding:

 

30% AoE Damage Reduction Utility

Buff Lightening Bolt Damage

Give Armor Debuff to Lightening

Increase Dmg Reduction in Suppression Utility

DPS buff to Madness Single Target and Energy Management to be comparable to IO and Virulence in Parsing and Raids.

Buff to Utility that Increases Static Barrier/Force Barrier

[revial]

I've mostly been fine with Sorc/Sage being broken for so long with stupid damage/mobility/survivability, because I've always held to the belief the dev team is a skeleton crew ever since they went F2P, and barely has the manpower to maintain the game, let alone make sensible design changes, but watching this same team double down on the utter silliness that is Sorc/Sage mechanics design is...

 

...well, I can only assume Bioware/EA management cares so little about SWTOR with minimal overwatch, that the devs of the game have no fear of collecting paychecks to troll players, because the alternative being that our developers actually thought these changes were a good idea-rather than a great opportunity to troll-is a bit terrifying.

 

It's like having a conversation with someone who tells you you're going to Hell because you had pre-marital sex, and you laugh, thinking that was just a really awkward joke, but then slowly realizing they were actually serious...

 

On another note, I love Huttball. I'm a flag-bearing member of the camp that things there is no better currently existing instanced pvp mode/map in MMOs than Huttball. But, Huttball in 4.0 is going to be absolute asinine with all this absurd focus on mobility. These changes to Sorc/Sage just bring it to a whole other level.

 

Edit: Like many, I'm sure, been playing this game long enough to have leveled/played everything multiple times over. I won't lie. I enjoy playing my Sorc while battling self-loathing at enjoying something so stupidly broken. In a different context (different pvp maps, different abilities for other classes), Sorc/Sage mechanics would make sense, but in the context of this game and the state of other classes, it's just...

Edited September 26, 2015 by revial

[ExeErdna]

Yeah solo ranked is dumb but tell that to Bioware after they removed ranked 8v8. If we both read the most recent info dump, we know both IO and Virulence are getting nerfed so we really can't tell if Mercs and Snipers are gonna be that good in PVE. I don't say they will fall back into the mediocre parsing classes but Sorcs aren't in a bad positon compared to them.

 

And these changes affect PVP in general. In 8v8 when everybody and their mother gets a gap closer nerfing HO and giving a measly 20 m backwards jump without any rootbreak or leap immunity (w/ no utility needed) is just not enough. You know it, I know it and Maker knows they know it.

 

It's become fashionable to blame all PVP problems on ranked and while it's true, regs are just as affected when it takes 3 average damage dealers to take down a freaking healing sorc.

 

Let be real it takes the whole team to take out a healing sorc if they know what they're doing.

 

The buffs to Darkness/Kinetic Combat = very good they needed that since in hectic fights you sometimes forget to ward up.

 

Yet everything else it's a mess I have two Sith Inquisitor/Jedi Consular on both sides and I can agree they're good out of the box you can honestly play most of the story w/o really gearing your companion since they're so strong. The problem is that it seems like they know PVP exist yet they make these things that would work for "PVE" yet they completely break PVP. There was a comment earlier that there just needs to be two different skill trees instead of classes getting slapped one way or another. We'll have an overall OP PVE class that we can all have fun and gear up on. Then the PVP tree will be a balance of THAT instead of weakening a class as a whole just weaken it versus other players.

 

In fact it would be nice if we can have both our PVE and PVP gear on at the same time or just another set of gear on. Also a good addition would be if that you can select the spec you want to use in PVE and PVP. Since some players do use different specs and the process of switching gearing is a pain. Since BW is streamlining things why haven't this been done?

[RAVM]

... I've always held to the belief the dev team is a skeleton crew ever since they went F2P, and barely has the manpower to maintain the game, let alone make sensible design changes, but watching this same team double down on the utter silliness that is Sorc/Sage mechanics design is...

 

Thing is, they don't need a big team for combat mechanics. The game already has serious ability bloat. Instead of adding all these stupid new teleporting moves for everyone, they could have just added passives and adjusted existing abilities for balance or to change mobility.