Why scaling should not be optional

[wainot-keel]

yeah it really does have to do with everyone else when they are one shotting our mobs and killing our world bosses. Right now its hard as **** to find a world boss that is your level without a lvl 60 camping it and killing it in a few hits, thats not how the game was intended to be played. This is an MMO, it effects everyone.

 

"Your" mobs ? "Your" world bosses ? Seriously ? What makes them "yours" ?

[Sichey]

"Your" mobs ? "Your" world bosses ? Seriously ? What makes them "yours" ?

 

^This.

[MillionsKNives]

thats not how the game was intended to be played.

 

Not how it's intended to be played? This is exactly how it's been for the past 3.5 years, since launch. Not intended my ***.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I honestly can't believe how many topics and page in said topics there are on this scaling stuff and more so Eric n co's inability to police their own rules about discussing mined/unofficial data.

 

I would think if they aren't going to at least do that simple mundane job then they should push more for this information to become official so it can be discussed in earnest.

 

In any case ... why shouldn't it be optional? I've not seen one logical and fair point made for making downscaling compulsory.

 

How it should be is if you choose to downscale and do say heroics then you are elgible for greater rewards, if you don't downscale and do it over leveled you get next to no rewards. Simple really.

 

Also though if a player wants to be carried through content by someone over leveled who isn't downscaled then they too don't qualify for any rewards.

Some had mentioned maybe they shouldn't get exp either but I don't see what the point is in this when you can just run kdy on repeat to level up as it is ( unless that's going away ).

 

I think removing rewards/money from people over leveled to do the content is a good thing as it will go a long way towards helping stop botting and gold sellers. Yet if you want to go do content to enjoy a story or something you've missed or just help someone out * but they can forget rewards ) then you can still do this too.

 

Blatantly forcing people to down scale would suck, especially for things like bounties as others have mentioned earlier.

 

TLDR; Voluntary downscale is the way it needs to be but no more rewards for people ( and their group ) doing content over levelled if not using downscaling. After all, why reward mediocrity?

[sosolidshoe]

How it should be is if you choose to downscale and do say heroics then you are elgible for greater rewards, if you don't downscale and do it over leveled you get next to no rewards. Simple really.

 

So, in other words, functionally the same as making it mandatory, since coming back once you've levelled/geared enough to run Flashpoints solo in order to get the cool cosmetic doo-dads without having to deal with other players throwing their own crap at the walls is one of the main reasons people bother to do it.

 

I genuinely don't get why some people are so eager to police everyone else's fun; if you want to run every FP at-level and in a group, do it, nobody has ever been stopping you and nobody is proposing to stop you in future. For me, I've been playing MMOs for over a decade, the novelty of grouping has well & truly worn off, all it means to me now is delays & waiting followed by inevitable frustration, punctuated by occasional frothing lunatic rage if you move even one iota outside the mandated roles & actions some mini-dictator manchild has decided your class/AC/spec must adhere to. Is every group a cesspit? Of course not, but I only have so much free time, I don't see why I should have to gamble on whether or not my evening of fun will actually be fun just to get a damn mount or wall decoration made of pixels for my online dollhouse.

[Nothing_Shines]

^Thank you. Perfect answer. Agree 100%

[FerkWork]

I'm all for level scalling (so long as it's scalling down to the content and not up, although it's fine to scale up for instances content just not zone/world) as it is in Guild Wars 2, which in my opinion is the best leveling EXP in any game. It's really sad to watch all these, so called elite players, complaining how they will have to put extra effort into heroics and flashpoints. Of course my opinions, and we'll all know what happens to the leveling EXP soon enough.

 

>L33T Players

>Heroics and Flashpoint

> TOPKEK

[Kingsbount]

Wow...

So if i leveled a character. Spend money and time on it. Run Op's to gear him. And if i'm gonna use it - it will be UNFAIR.

Awsome logic...

[jedip_enguin]

The amount of jimmies getting rustled off the back of this amuses me deeply.

 

I look forward to it being implemented.

[Jianka]

People are concerned about scaling, not because of Flashpoints, but because of "Heroic 4" areas.

 

Alderaan bonus area Datacron? Forget about it. And about Hoth one, if you are Imp.

Hey, even without Datacrons you will be blocked from half of present "solo" game content and blocked hard.

It is not challenge of said group content making them hard to do at level, it is impossible challenge of forming said groups. Patch 4.0 won't miraculously fill your group, it will just force you to group. And that's why forced scaling in there is bad thing.

 

There is huge problem finding people for any planetary group quests and you really want to make all heroics into "Aurora cannons"?

[Jeweledleah]

People are concerned about scaling, not because of Flashpoints, but because of "Heroic 4" areas.

 

Alderaan bonus area Datacron? Forget about it. And about Hoth one, if you are Imp.

Hey, even without Datacrons you will be blocked from half of present "solo" game content and blocked hard.

It is not challenge of said group content making them hard to do at level, it is impossible challenge of forming said groups. Patch 4.0 won't miraculously fill your group, it will just force you to group. And that's why forced scaling in there is bad thing.

 

There is huge problem finding people for any planetary group quests and you really want to make all heroics into "Aurora cannons"?

 

agreed. although mandatory flashpoint scaling is ALSO an issue, given why people solo them nowadays in a first place.

[Urantia]

People are concerned about scaling, not because of Flashpoints, but because of "Heroic 4" areas.

 

Alderaan bonus area Datacron? Forget about it. And about Hoth one, if you are Imp.

Hey, even without Datacrons you will be blocked from half of present "solo" game content and blocked hard.

It is not challenge of said group content making them hard to do at level, it is impossible challenge of forming said groups. Patch 4.0 won't miraculously fill your group, it will just force you to group. And that's why forced scaling in there is bad thing.

 

There is huge problem finding people for any planetary group quests and you really want to make all heroics into "Aurora cannons"?

 

Well said.

 

Just over a year ago now I started a "project" in the game...I lvled 5 characters through pure PvP {well 10-cap} with only a couple month break to work on some of my toons on my alt server Jung Ma. Anyhow they all hit 60 right as we get the new 200K comm. cap patch. They then returned to their respective starting planets to begin their class stories {from the very first dialog} and do all plantary/side missions/heroics in a chronological order as possible..

 

Thankfully they are all about finished...they are all at about through Rishi/Yavin and a couple through Ziost {should have no issue getting finished before 4.0}. The point of this? Well thank God I got them finished before this possible scale garbage. I did this {"the 5" are not unique to myself [done similar over the years] or others that have done similar over time}. Anyone will tell you lvling in PvP is a super long process...I did it old school without XP nonsense etc...and doing it with 5 was like....it sucked lol. But I reached my goal.

 

I mention all this for no reason but to possibly understand why they may add scaling. Seeing a lvl 60 on Tython doing their first class quest is rare {not just seeing a 60 there by itself lol}...very rare. But with the possible addition of them selling lvl 60s....imagine a starter planet filled with them without scaling? It would be truly ridiculous and very unfair to lvl 1s. Most would find it hard to dispute how disruptive this could be.

 

Now like most here, I have zero knowledge how the so called instant lvl 60s/legacy crons/etc would work....or if those toons would be auto locked into KoTFE or whatever. If not, then scaling would be a must :-(. Also consider if they implement legacy datacrons {assuming they even have stats anymore}. Scaling may be needed to keep these guys in-line also? All questions I also have.

 

My general point is we may not have a choice due to design changes they make. Where seeing a lvl capped toon just beginning PvE is ultra rare {especially with all the ~12x whores we have now etc}...it could become common place {well 60 or so with 4.0}. Sure it would trivialize something only a few ever did...but would "break" most planets for regular players. Enter the scale lol.

 

I personally hate the scale idea, but due to their desire to cater to those that only have 3-hours of play time a month {lol}, they may have no choice. I personally hope 4.0 blows me away...as it may be time to move along. I was never their target audience anyhow...but I stuck it out while I watched 100s and 100s of players come and go with an increasing frequency {a mere few I actually cared about}...and watched the game become less and less "meaningful".

Edited September 24, 2015 by Urantia

[Nikonthenet]

Well, there we have it folks. Urantia confirms it.

-We need level scaling so people can stop playing games and get the help they urgently need.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

"Your" mobs ? "Your" world bosses ? Seriously ? What makes them "yours" ?

 

Entitlement of course.

[Upirlikhyi]

The current solo flashpoints don't. That is precedent.

 

The challenge is soloing lvl 55 hardmodes.

 

do the current ones drop those items in group mode? Mind you I have honestly never done them in group mode as the GF was taking forever so forgive me for not knowing...

[Upirlikhyi]

People are concerned about scaling, not because of Flashpoints, but because of "Heroic 4" areas.

 

Alderaan bonus area Datacron? Forget about it. And about Hoth one, if you are Imp.

Hey, even without Datacrons you will be blocked from half of present "solo" game content and blocked hard.

It is not challenge of said group content making them hard to do at level, it is impossible challenge of forming said groups. Patch 4.0 won't miraculously fill your group, it will just force you to group. And that's why forced scaling in there is bad thing.

 

There is huge problem finding people for any planetary group quests and you really want to make all heroics into "Aurora cannons"?

 

I'll be 100% honest I totally forgot about Datacrons being in Heroic 4 areas. I haven't spent much time on gathering them since I came back

[branmakmuffin]

So, in other words, functionally the same as making it mandatory, since coming back once you've levelled/geared enough to run Flashpoints solo in order to get the cool cosmetic doo-dads without having to deal with other players throwing their own crap at the walls is one of the main reasons people bother to do it.

 

I genuinely don't get why some people are so eager to police everyone else's fun; if you want to run every FP at-level and in a group, do it, nobody has ever been stopping you and nobody is proposing to stop you in future. For me, I've been playing MMOs for over a decade, the novelty of grouping has well & truly worn off, all it means to me now is delays & waiting followed by inevitable frustration, punctuated by occasional frothing lunatic rage if you move even one iota outside the mandated roles & actions some mini-dictator manchild has decided your class/AC/spec must adhere to. Is every group a cesspit? Of course not, but I only have so much free time, I don't see why I should have to gamble on whether or not my evening of fun will actually be fun just to get a damn mount or wall decoration made of pixels for my online dollhouse.

Thus, many (most?) FPs will have a solo option. Your problem would seem to be solved.

[TUXs]

So, in other words, functionally the same as making it mandatory, since coming back once you've levelled/geared enough to run Flashpoints solo in order to get the cool cosmetic doo-dads without having to deal with other players throwing their own crap at the walls is one of the main reasons people bother to do it.

 

I genuinely don't get why some people are so eager to police everyone else's fun; if you want to run every FP at-level and in a group, do it, nobody has ever been stopping you and nobody is proposing to stop you in future. For me, I've been playing MMOs for over a decade, the novelty of grouping has well & truly worn off, all it means to me now is delays & waiting followed by inevitable frustration, punctuated by occasional frothing lunatic rage if you move even one iota outside the mandated roles & actions some mini-dictator manchild has decided your class/AC/spec must adhere to. Is every group a cesspit? Of course not, but I only have so much free time, I don't see why I should have to gamble on whether or not my evening of fun will actually be fun just to get a damn mount or wall decoration made of pixels for my online dollhouse.

 

Well said sir!!!

[ImmortalLowlife]

...with the possible addition of them selling lvl 60s....imagine a starter planet filled with them without scaling? It would be truly ridiculous and very unfair to lvl 1s. Most would find it hard to dispute how disruptive this could be.....

 

It's already been stated by the devs that if you buy a lvl 60, it'll be locked out from pre KotFE class missions.

 

 

I can't see them making a change as moronic as "forced planetary scaling". If I'm just going back to the dark temple grounds to just use the matrix shards I found, I don't want to have to fight my way thru a bunch of lvl 15 peons with my lvl 40 juggernaut. I don't have that kinda time to waste. Now if I'm grouping to help a lower lvl player...sure...scale me back down. If I w wanna group for a lower lvl fp....sure....scale me back. But if I'm just doing my own thing, like using my lvl 60 to gather Mats on Taris. Leave me and my lvl alone.

[SteveTheCynic]

• 
  

I'm all for level scalling (so long as it's scalling down to the content and not up, although it's fine to scale up for instances content just not zone/world) as it is in Guild Wars 2, which in my opinion is the best leveling EXP in any game.

Are you mad? The level clipping in GW2 (or perhaps the particular way it was implemented) enables the following oddities:

* It is possible to reach level 80 (cap) in a reasonable time, and with level upper-70s drop gear, just by running around the top-left corner of Queensdale killing the mobs there. That's a bit like levelling a JC or JK to cap without ever leaving the Gnarls.

* It is not possible to take on a heavy boss (not even a World Boss) at any level by yourself, not even one that lives in some dusty corner of Queensdale and is therefore only level 8, say, because when you fight it, you are never more than one level higher.

* As a consequence, certain areas can become impassable for ALL players during times when few players are on line, because you won't be able to find enough players to help you.

 

The first one is like that because the reward for killing a mob or participating in a dynamic event scales up with your increasing "true" level, not with your (non-increasing) effective level. In addition, the drops from mobs are a function of your level, not the mobs' levels.

 

Of course, you won't have great gear, because most of the great-gear sources aren't available in the top-left corner of Queensdale, but you won't have level 1-10 gear either.

 

Overall, I'm a bit dismayed by the idea of level down-scaling. Please, NO.

[SaerethDL]

"Your" mobs ? "Your" world bosses ? Seriously ? What makes them "yours" ?

 

First of all you're taking it at of context, I didn't say Mine, I said Ours, meaning the people that are doing the quest and world bosses at the appropriate level.

[SaerethDL]

Entitlement of course.

 

Again, he took it out of context, if you actually read what i wrote, i never said "mine" i said "ours", meaning the people doing the quest and world boss at the appropriate level. But yeah i'm so entitled.. nice assumption, should i assume stuff about you as well?

[TUXs]

First of all you're taking it at of context, I didn't say Mine, I said Ours, meaning the people that are doing the quest and world bosses at the appropriate level.

What's "appropriate"? When I can solo it since nobody ever wants to do them? When I only need 1 other player, not 3? Or do you mean when it's most difficult? If you want the challenge, go for it...but don't force me to need to group with guys like you when I passed this content up 4 years ago. These World Bosses are achievement time killers, not rewarding content.

[Warrgames]

Again, he took it out of context, if you actually read what i wrote, i never said "mine" i said "ours", meaning the people doing the quest and world boss at the appropriate level. But yeah i'm so entitled.. nice assumption, should i assume stuff about you as well?

 

entitlement: the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something

 

You do have a very entitled outlook. You feel a group (level appropriate) is more entitled to world boss than people who are higher level. Right there is entitlement. Just because you use "ours" doesn't make it any less of an entitled statement. You still believe that level appropriate deserve the world boss more than someone else.

[Allamirr]

Only the Flashpoints that tie into the main stories get solo mode, Esseles/Talon Maelstrom/Foundry etc.. Others like Red Reaper, Athisis etc.. wont have a solo mode. Also, the main thing is will those solo modes still drop the same items and receive the same Achievements that the already soloable hard mode versions have. Like spawning the Bonus bosses, who drop decorations almost every time and give achievements. If they dont drop anything, why would anyone even bother doing them more then once beyond the story. And if they do drop the same items, will it be so rare like winning a rancor from the casinos or Getting a Mandalore statue from those Cantina crates or digging up a Crate O Matic. Cause if its as rare as those things, no one (other then the most severe OCDed person) would ever do them more then once!

Hopefully its the same items with the same drop rate as old Hard modes and they add new items for group scaled hard mode, that would appease both sides of the issue. They would also need to make solo modes for the other Flashpoints as well, eventually. The only flashpoint that isnt soloable legit atm, is Collicoid Wargames.