Game Update 4.0 Class Changes: Bounty Hunter + Trooper

[Deyjarl]

I know it is probably a too late but,

 

Shield Tech/Shield Specialist

 

New Ability: Translocate/Transpose! Swap places with a group member and bestow a benign presence upon them for up to 6 seconds. Targets with a benign presence are ignored by most enemies, cannot be leapt to or pulled, and are immune to interrupts and ability activation pushback until they use an aggressive or healing ability. This has a 1.5 second activation time and a 90 second cooldown.

 

This ability seems like an a emergency safe for people drawing agro in your group, which is great, except that 1.5 second activation time. 1.5 seconds is a huge amount of time when you are looking to rescue a team member from aggro from a tough mob and put us in position to attack the mob. Yeah we already have abilities to draw agro. But this is clearly meant as a save the player skill with the positional bonus, but you are stuck doing nothing while tanking for 1.5 seconds, to go rescue someone already taking damage.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Deyjarl

[realleaftea]

Baseline jet charge/storm = good.

Making it a level 61 ability = f u bioware.

A charge was implemented for melee classes to overcome their limitation to 4m range.

 

So let's check: How many melee skills does a PowerTech has to deserve the status of a melee class and to justify a Storm // Jet Charge?

 

If a Jedi Knight or Sentinel wouldn't get a Force Leap, all he could use is a Saber Throw or Twin Saber Throw.

If a Vanguard wouldn't have Storm, he could still use:

• Hammer Shot
  
• Explosive Round
  
• Sticky Grenade
  
• Mortar Volley
  
• High Impact Bolt (situational except for Tactics)
  
• Harpoon
  
• Cryo Grenade
  
• Ion Pulse, Pulse Cannon & Shoulder Cannon (10~15m only)
  

 

Seems to be more than just a slight difference, don't you think?

 

In my opinion, it makes sense to give Vanguards Storm at the same level the Jedi gets his second Charge: At level 61.

Edited September 27, 2015 by realleaftea

[Faelandaea]

A charge was implemented for melee classes to overcome their limitation to 4m range.

 

So let's check: How many melee skills does a PowerTech has to deserve the status of a melee class and to justify a Storm // Jet Charge?

 

If a Jedi Knight or Sentinel wouldn't get a Force Leap, all he could use is a Saber Throw or Twin Saber Throw.

If a Vanguard wouldn't have Storm, he could still use:

• Hammer Shot
  
• Explosive Round
  
• Sticky Grenade
  
• Mortar Volley
  
• High Impact Bolt (situational except for Tactics)
  
• Harpoon
  
• Cryo Grenade
  
• Ion Pulse, Pulse Cannon & Shoulder Cannon (10~15m only)
  

 

Seems to be more than just a slight difference, don't you think?

 

In my opinion, it makes sense to give Vanguards Storm at the same level the Jedi gets his second Charge: At level 61.

 

Stop it. You make too much sense

[Max_Killjoy]

Like most of 4.0, these changes make little sense.

 

Oh well.

[ZeroPlus]

A charge was implemented for melee classes to overcome their limitation to 4m range.

 

So let's check: How many melee skills does a PowerTech has to deserve the status of a melee class and to justify a Storm // Jet Charge?

 

If a Jedi Knight or Sentinel wouldn't get a Force Leap, all he could use is a Saber Throw or Twin Saber Throw.

If a Vanguard wouldn't have Storm, he could still use:

• Hammer Shot
  
• Explosive Round
  
• Sticky Grenade
  
• Mortar Volley
  
• High Impact Bolt (situational except for Tactics)
  
• Harpoon
  
• Cryo Grenade
  
• Ion Pulse, Pulse Cannon & Shoulder Cannon (10~15m only)
  

 

Seems to be more than just a slight difference, don't you think?

 

In my opinion, it makes sense to give Vanguards Storm at the same level the Jedi gets his second Charge: At level 61.

 

The problem isn't that DPS Vanguards/PowerTechs get Storm/Jet Charge at 61. Sure, it would be nice if they got it sooner but noone is really complaining about that.

The problem is that the wording of the blog is unclear on whether Tank Vanguards/PowerTechs will lose the Storm/Jet Charge that they currently get at level 10 and only get it "back" at level 61. That would be bad, VERY BAD.

(Especially when you consider that Tank VGs/PTs have a level 40 passive in the tree that interacts with Storm/Jet Charge, and there was no mention in the blog about that passive...)

[Zoom_VI]

So let's check: How many melee skills does a PowerTech has to deserve the status of a melee class and to justify a Storm // Jet Charge?

 

The justification for Jet Charge is that they are increasing the cooldown on HTL by 15 seconds. Which is actually a nerf because 15 seconds shorter CD on HTL is worth way more than a leap is, due to how PTs function.

[Mahrdol]

The justification for Jet Charge is that they are increasing the cooldown on HTL by 15 seconds. Which is actually a nerf because 15 seconds shorter CD on HTL is worth way more than a leap is, due to how PTs function.

 

I have to agree. All these silly 4.0 movement abilities is over complicating the game and a waste of programming. IF anything they should have taken 1 or 2 of the utilities for HTL and combined them instead of nerfing a great ability.

 

Same with all the other classes. Instead of making new useless movement abilities just reduce the CDs or make the current movement abilities last longer.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Mahrdol

[Transcendent]

So you use a Jedi Sentinel to respond to my arguments about a Jedi Knight? - That kind of desperate, don't you think?

 

Not desperate, not even slightly.

 

Hold the Line // Hydraulic Override grants an immunity vs. movement-imparing and root effects. Since you listed these items here, I have a question for you:

 

If you activate Leg Slash (or a Master Strike) and another speed bonus, and your opponent use Hold The Line a similar slow effect (Entangling Heat, etc.), what makes you believe you can stay on the target?

 

Stun them, wastes most of the HO / HtL, if they get too far away you do have a leap to use more frequently than a Merc / Mando can use HO / HtL.

 

Come on, I don't claim to know it all, so have the guts to correct me on that one rather than listing the appropriate skills here. Because the essential part of my last reply was that although most classes have speed & slow effects, the one with the best immunity vs. slow will have the upper hand.

 

What makes Merc / Mando players such easy targets in arenas? Ask yourself that question. I'll give you the answer if you're unsure.

 

Same as before: A movement speed is countered by an opposing speed bonus and negated by an opposing slow. So an immunity vs. slow will give the player the upper hand when comparing the resulting speed.

 

See above reply.

 

In most cases, slow effects can also be used more frequently. But if the speed bonuses are restricted / limited and the slows by far more commen, any immunity vs. slow is also by far more valuable.

 

Merc / Mando immunities versus slows, on say for example a Jedi Sentinel. Well, only three will work, one is on a 45sec CD for only one spec (Arsenal) and the other one is on a 30sec CD (HO / HtL), last one is Cure on a 11.7s CD (wastes a GCD). Trust me on this, if you can't slow / root / keep up with a Merc / Mando, you're doing something seriously wrong.

 

Please be so kind and state the cooldown for these two skills here as well. That helps to check, whether the new 45s cooldown for Hold the Line is unreasonable or not, right? My whole point - that you must have missed - wasn't the number of the skills, but to prove, that 45s is pretty much balanced.

 

Honestly, read above. Merc / Mando players are already in a far worse position, increasing the CD of a core DCD by 50% to reign in the sonic the hedgehog powertech / vanguards and catching Merc / Mando players in that nerf?

 

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that Powertech / Vanguards needing toning down a bit, and with their new gap closer they're far less reliant on HO / HtL. Merc / Mandos? Yeah they're already in a **** position even when compared to what you deem as a weak class such as a Jedi Knight (or in my example one subset of that).

 

 

So let's sum it up

 

Assuming 3% Alacrity Buff from Ataru form.

 

17.5s CD - Twin Saber Throw (reduces movement speed of targets)

Focus Cost 3 + GCD - Leg Slash (reduces movement speed of target and also reduces healing received by target - root available)

17.5s CD - Master Strike (root available)

30s CD - Transcendence (increases your movement speed)

60s CD - Pacify (90% accuracy debuff to target)

45s CD - Force Camouflage (also grants movement speed bonus - cleanse available)

180s CD - Guarded by the Force (you're unlikely to die for 4 seconds....)

14.6s CD - Force Leap (gap closer, 15s second CD)

 

- So 3 slows or roots on just the above, maximum is 17.5s CD.

- You also have Force Stasis to waste the first 4 seconds on HO / HtL, Awe on a 58.3s CD to waste 6 seconds of HO / HtL.

- Force Leap which roots the target for 2 seconds.

 

Compared to what?

 

- HO / HtL on a 30s CD (soon to be 45 seconds )

- Cure on a 11.7s CD (assuming playing Arsenal with a 3% Alacrity buff)

- Chaff Flare (assuming Arsenal) on a 45s CD to absorb a potential slow.

 

So, two ways of removing slows vs 4 ways of giving slows. Sorry, but if you have issues staying on target against a Merc / Mando player then you have a wider positional issue going on, and it isn't due to lack of abilities. If you can't get to the target in the first place, then really that is also not a lack of abilities, and staying on target once there is pretty damn easy. If I can manage it on a Sentinel (and I'm **** at Sentinel) then you may want to go to your class forums and get some tips.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Transcendent

[Mahrdol]

Not desperate, not even slightly.

 

 

 

 

 

And in total, that's such a tremendous disadvantage for the Commando that players keep complaining that their Hold the Line will be nerfed to a 45s cooldown, which is essentially the cooldown of a Force Camouflage.

Instead of nerfing a good ability like HTL why not remove/reduce the CD on force leap. Seems a better option than nerfing HTL and adding yet another movement ability that really isn't needed.

[TUXs]

Instead of nerfing a good ability like HTL why not remove/reduce the CD on force leap. Seems a better option than nerfing HTL and adding yet another movement ability that really isn't needed.

Bioware isn't looking at the real issue...they are confusing PT/VG's with Mandos and Mercs. They're too ignorant to realize just how freaking pathetic Mando/Merc is in an arena...despite every metric they have and all the proof in the world being visible to all on the leaderboards...all they know is guys with little yellow circles under their feet are running circles around them and they're trying to stop that, not even pretending to comprehend the vast difference that skill (HO/HtL) has for each class. They're nerfing merc/mando because of their sheer unfamiliarity of how the classes differ.

[Transcendent]

Bioware isn't looking at the real issue...they are confusing PT/VG's with Mandos and Mercs. They're too ignorant to realize just how freaking pathetic Mando/Merc is in an arena...despite every metric they have and all the proof in the world being visible to all on the leaderboards...all they know is guys with little yellow circles under their feet are running circles around them and they're trying to stop that, not even pretending to comprehend the vast difference that skill (HO/HtL) has for each class. They're nerfing merc/mando because of their sheer unfamiliarity of how the classes differ.

 

To be fair, the combat team has had plenty of chances to get this right by now. Merc / Mando has gone the whole of 3.0 being in a pretty poor place, while other classes (such as Sentinel / Mara) received buffs.

 

All the class has seen is inconsistent changes from PTS such as a minor inconsequential increase in where KO triggers (clue for the combat team - the ability is still ****), and Chaff Flare absorbing 5 force or tech attacks for Arsenal / increasing defence chance by 35% for IO. Omitting the issues that Bodyguard has as well. Neither of those two changes were remotely close enough to help Merc / Mando players in 3.0.

 

So how they think giving the class a 20m gap creator that also has to have a utility point to make it even close to useful, when we're already at a disadvantage, while nerfing one of the core abilities to negate roots slows? If anything the CD should be DECREASED for Merc / Mando players HO / HtL to 20s to tie in with the new gap creator. Not increased.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Transcendent

[TUXs]

To be fair, the combat team has had plenty of chances to get this right by now. Merc / Mando has gone the whole of 3.0 being in a pretty poor place, while other classes (such as Sentinel / Mara) received buffs.

 

All the class has seen is inconsistent changes from PTS such as a minor inconsequential increase in where KO triggers (clue for the combat team - the ability is still ****), and Chaff Flare absorbing 5 force or tech attacks for Arsenal / increasing defence chance by 35% for IO. Omitting the issues that Bodyguard has as well. Neither of those two changes were remotely close enough to help Merc / Mando players in 3.0.

 

So how they think giving the class a 20m gap creator that also has to have a utility point to make it even close to useful, when we're already at a disadvantage, while nerfing one of the core abilities to negate roots slows? If anything the CD should be DECREASED for Merc / Mando players HO / HtL to 20s to tie in with the new gap creator. Not increased.

I couldn't agree more. It truly baffles me. It's to the point where it's clearly a case of complete incompetence, as I don't think they're trying to sabotage the class...I think they're simply oblivious.

[Joesixxpack]

I couldn't agree more. It truly baffles me. It's to the point where it's clearly a case of complete incompetence, as I don't think they're trying to sabotage the class...I think they're simply oblivious.

 

It's like they don't even play it.

 

I'm getting focused! Time to leap backwards! I'm still dead but **** yeah that animation is awesome!

[TUXs]

It's like they don't even play it.

 

I'm getting focused! Time to leap backwards! I'm still dead but **** yeah that animation is awesome!

 

Right?! Cool animation tbh, but 20m...and no immunity unless I waste a vital top tier skill point in it? Yet VG/PT gets a teleporter that gives immunity to EVERYTHING for 6 seconds? Boost back, refocused, dead. This new skill changes ZERO about the state of Merc/Mando in PvP...it's a joke...it barely even delays their death.

[CrazyOldMystic]

Developers I am not going to give you bull like some others but I will give you information based on facts and experience.

 

With the removal of full auto as a trooper base line ability early on, levels 1thew 10 are hell for any new player to the game. The only ability you have that allows heavy damage from range is explosive round, and plasma cannon ability. Keep in mind in the early levels the explosive round chews ammo up like no ones business, and they do not have storm to get close to the enemy when needed for the plasma cannon ability. First thing please bring full auto back as a base line ability for the trooper class. Note for those waiting to troll and go spastastic I said new players to the game.

 

As for storm the players saying it needs to be a early on ability are 100 percent correct. Unless you take up my suggestion and add in full auto again, storm really does need to be a ability they get at level 10. More over I would look into making early on tanking more stronger then it is right now. Early vanguard or powertech tanking is rough to say the least.

 

As for the commando and mercenary I see where you going with this but I must be honest. Right now the direction you are taking the class is a pure glass cannon direction. The problem is the force user classes like to leave us in the front of combat or guarding, which leaves us with no hope at all, when stealth classes are about stunning and killing. So here is a few suggestions.

 

-The shield ability needs a increase to 60 percent damage reduction to all inc damage, to make it more useful in the area of survival

 

- Every third explosive round fired, should be able to knock a single target down. Now those who know the class understand that by using three explosive rounds one after the other most of our ammunition is gone. So the result is it not being overpowering. Also now that it fires one instead of two at a time this further makes sure it can not be abused .

 

-Sticky grenade needs a 100 percent chance to knock a stealth class out of stealth if they are tagged with one, for no less then 10 seconds. Given your direction with the inquisitor/ consular, commandos are going to need a strong stealth class counter. Also I would increase its damage somewhat.

 

Complete these three changes with the changes you already have planned and we should be able to handle the huge buffs that the force user classes are getting.

 

This last change suggested may be a bit much but people have a point. When you compare the Jedi Guardiant/sith Jugg healing to our adrenaline rush, our adrenaline rush does not even come close. So possibly look at buffing that up too.

 

One last thing the stealth scan needs a much larger radius then it has now, and your buff that you plan on putting in, needs to work when they are outside of the stealth scan radius. Meaning once they get tagged by it and buffed they should be able to move on without losing the buff. Now obviously when the buff runs out they should lose it.

 

In closing my suggestions are major buffs for commando/merc, if they are done, then you can buff the force user classes up like you want to. At the same time leaving the commando/merc the ability to survive and act.

Edited September 30, 2015 by CrazyOldMystic
Some details needed corrected also stealth scan.

[Duerre]

Seriously, who is in charge of Trooper/BH classes? Sometimes I just wish I could sit in the room with the developers as they, with serious faces, make decisions like this. Then yell at them when they suggest stupid changes like this. The gap creator ability is completely useless to me. I will likely NEVER put it on my bar. Why would I? I don't PvP.

 

First they take away Full Auto/Unload. Lets talk about that. The reasons they said they took it away is because it was not part of the dps rotation... So what?! Neither is force choke/stasis. There's never a time during my dps rotation on any of my guardian/sentinel specs where I use choke/stasis. Or Awe... don't even have that one on my freakin bar. Or Flash Bang on my smug. Or Project on my sage. Cripes, I used Full Auto/unload all the time on my PT! I don't care that min/max fanatics never used it in THEIR rotations. But back to my point, why are those other skills still in the game but you took full auto/unload from my VG/PT? I mean, I would understand if just one person brings it up in the meeting, but that the whole slew of developers went, "Hmm. Good idea. Okay. Lets take it away from VG/PT completely," ...mind... blown.

 

Then to increase the CD on overrides which I used all the time in PvE when tanking to mitigate the knock-back/stun that ALL npc's seem to have... And then they throw storm/charge up to level 61?!?!? What the literal ****? WHAT? ... WHAT? WHAT IS GOING ON?!?!

Edited October 16, 2015 by Duerre

[Duerre]

Seriously, who is in charge of Trooper/BH classes? Sometimes I just wish I could sit in the room with the developers as they, with serious faces, make decisions like this. Then yell at them when they suggest stupid changes like this. The gap creator ability is completely useless to me. I will likely NEVER put it on my bar. Why would I? I don't PvP.

 

First they take away Full Auto/Unload. Lets talk about that. The reasons they said they took it away is because it was not part of the dps rotation... So what?! Neither is force choke/stasis. There's never a time during my dps rotation on any of my guardian/sentinel specs where I use choke/stasis. Or Awe... don't even have that one on my freakin bar. Or Flash Bang on my smug. Or Project on my sage. Cripes, I used Full Auto/unload all the time on my PT! I don't care that min/max fanatics never used it in THEIR rotations. But back to my point, why are those other skills still in the game but you took full auto/unload from my VG/PT? I mean, I would understand if just one person brings it up in the meeting, but that the whole slew of developers went, "Hmm. Good idea. Okay. Lets take it away from VG/PT completely," ...mind... blown.

 

Then to increase the CD on overrides which I used all the time in PvE when tanking to mitigate the knock-back/stun that ALL npc's seem to have... And then they throw storm/charge up to level 61?!?!? What the literal ****? WHAT? ... WHAT? WHAT IS GOING ON?!?!

 

Alright... I've calmed down a bit. But in all seriousness, Bioware... what's up with this?

[idnewton]

Seriously, who is in charge of Trooper/BH classes? Sometimes I just wish I could sit in the room with the developers as they, with serious faces, make decisions like this. Then yell at them when they suggest stupid changes like this. The gap creator ability is completely useless to me. I will likely NEVER put it on my bar. Why would I? I don't PvP.

 

First they take away Full Auto/Unload. Lets talk about that. The reasons they said they took it away is because it was not part of the dps rotation... So what?! Neither is force choke/stasis. There's never a time during my dps rotation on any of my guardian/sentinel specs where I use choke/stasis. Or Awe... don't even have that one on my freakin bar. Or Flash Bang on my smug. Or Project on my sage. Cripes, I used Full Auto/unload all the time on my PT! I don't care that min/max fanatics never used it in THEIR rotations. But back to my point, why are those other skills still in the game but you took full auto/unload from my VG/PT? I mean, I would understand if just one person brings it up in the meeting, but that the whole slew of developers went, "Hmm. Good idea. Okay. Lets take it away from VG/PT completely," ...mind... blown.

 

Then to increase the CD on overrides which I used all the time in PvE when tanking to mitigate the knock-back/stun that ALL npc's seem to have... And then they throw storm/charge up to level 61?!?!? What the literal ****? WHAT? ... WHAT? WHAT IS GOING ON?!?!

 

I may be wrong about this, but... aren't the vast majority of the gripes of the BH/Trooper community related to PvP? They don't seem in any worse a spot than any other class when it comes to PvE.

[Transcendent]

Bounty Hunter/Trooper

 

• Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line’s cooldown has been increased to 45 seconds (up from 30).
  

 

So you're actually going live with this change? Wow, I didn't think the class balance could get any worse than 3.0, but BioWare have just proved that they can make it even worse than it is now. Well done!

[BenitsubasaChiyo]

So you're actually going live with this change? Wow, I didn't think the class balance could get any worse than 3.0, but BioWare have just proved that they can make it even worse than it is now. Well done!

Come one, man! We don't have to rely on Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line for increased mobility anymore. Especially with that totally useless crap they dare to call "combar disengage"

 

brb rerolling Sorc

[ZeroPlus]

There are changes in the patch notes for 4.0 from what was originally posted in this thread.

See the patch notes here: http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes.

 

Highlights for Powertechs/Vanguards:

1) Jet Charge/Storm is now trainable by all Powertechs/Vanguards at level 22. (Yes. 22. )

2) Tier 1 utility (Neural Delay) that slows by 50% for 6s with a 30m range.

3) Iron Will, Tier 1 utility, now reduces the cooldown of Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line by 10 seconds.

 

You can read more at: http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes.

[Cireka]

So far so good though some of the bounty hunter missions are borked after you get the mission that doesnt exist from mako voss class mission wont load at all once the check the hyperdrives quest if given.

[DoomBlackDragon]

Did Jedi/Sith get their force leap moved to level 61? No? Then why should the BH/troop have their leap be put at level 61. You have it so I am auto firing at a boss walkig up to it. Hoping not to loose agro before I get into my ability range. You have crippled BH/Trooper tanking with this retarded change. What where you thinking when you made this change?

[jedimasterjac]

Did Jedi/Sith get their force leap moved to level 61? No? Then why should the BH/troop have their leap be put at level 61. You have it so I am auto firing at a boss walkig up to it. Hoping not to loose agro before I get into my ability range. You have crippled BH/Trooper tanking with this retarded change. What where you thinking when you made this change?

 

This is from 4.0.

 

2015.

 

Two years ago.