Too many 1-shot mech in NIM ops

[DawnAskham]

That is not a reply at all, you ignored my question and repeated yourself.

 

What one shot mechanic is causing you a problem and why is it causing you a problem <- this is the question.

 

Simply put, pull up an operation and name the one shot mechanic or more than one which you do not think should be there and why.

 

I'm reading that his concern is that an over reliance on 'one-shot' mechanics leads to repetitive encounter design, not that specific mechanics in specific instances are a problem for him or his group to manage.

 

I do see a bit of repetitiveness in SWTOR encounter design, though if I had to call out one overused 'mechanic', it would be the hard enrage timer.

 

But most games I've played tend to have a bit of repetitiveness in content design, probably a combination of developer bias and system limitations (they do what they know, and they do what they know will work).

 

Oh and for the 'these mechanics are required to make tough fights' crowd, expand your thinking and possibly expand your game experience - plenty of mechanics can and are used to build very complex and difficult encounters without resorting to 'one-shot' or hard enrage timers.

 

BTW for me an outright 'one shot' mechanic is something which cannot be avoided or resisted and is a simple pass / fail check (in SWTOR these tend to be the 'defeated by X for 0 damage' abilities).

 

Most games I've played have plenty of mechanics where one-shots are possible, though in many cases they are quantifiable amounts which can be resisted / blocked, mitigated, or controlled through other means (stack to share damage, use raid / personal cool downs, counter mechanics, dispelling, etc).

[Khevar]

I'm reading that his concern is that an over reliance on 'one-shot' mechanics leads to repetitive encounter design, not that specific mechanics in specific instances are a problem for him or his group to manage.

I think that improved encounter designs would be a great thing. Something that adds interest and variety to group encounters is likely to be beneficial.

 

However, I fear that the OP is actually pushing to simplify existing NM operations for the underlying purpose of being able to obtain the rewards easier. Instead of trying to make the content better. We've argued about this exact thing a few different times in different threads.

 

This thread is focusing on the generality of "one-shot mechanics are bad", as opposed to "these specific mechanics aren't good for reasons X,Y,Z and here is an idea to make them better: P, D, Q"

 

Gyro asked the OP a very specific question which was dodged. It would be nice if it were answered.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Khevar

[Gyronamics]

All I'm reading is that the OP is having problems with fight mechanics.

 

I don't need to be a detective to click on post history and gauge what issues he's having.

 

The OP needs a group with high organisation and competence plus a walkthrough of fight mechanics and hasn't got one.

 

You can talk about the theories of how you'd like to be told the game is over when you failed a boss mechanic on hardest mode but death is a classic one which gets right to the point and the OP still needs a carry through the fight he's stuck on. He is even looking to buy a carry.

 

Why the thread? Attention? Desperation? CBA dying to Brontes HM mechanics any more and wants it to be SM with a HM label? I dunno.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Slowpokeking]

All I'm reading is that the OP is having problems with fight mechanics.

 

I don't need to be a detective to click on post history and gauge what issues he's having.

 

The OP needs a group with high organisation and competence plus a walkthrough of fight mechanics and hasn't got one.

 

You can talk about the theories of how you'd like to be told the game is over when you failed a boss mechanic on hardest mode but death is a classic one which gets right to the point and the OP still needs a carry through the fight he's stuck on. He is even looking to buy a carry.

 

Why the thread? Attention? Desperation? CBA dying to Brontes HM mechanics any more and wants it to be SM with a HM label? I dunno.

No, I don't have problem with most of the 1-shot mech and I have the achievements done. Tell me when did I say I can't go through?

[MASOLIZ]

I think that improved encounter designs would be a great thing. Something that adds interest and variety to group encounters is likely to be beneficial.

 

However, I fear that the OP is actually pushing to simplify existing NM operations for the underlying purpose of being able to obtain the rewards easier. Instead of trying to make the content better. We've argued about this exact thing a few different times in different threads.

 

This thread is focusing on the generality of "one-shot mechanics are bad", as opposed to "these specific mechanics aren't good for reasons X,Y,Z and here is an idea to make them better: P, D, Q"

 

Gyro asked the OP a very specific question which was dodged. It would be nice if it were answered.

 

Yeah I remember the 55 HM/NiM ops too not faceroll enough for lvl 60's in betting gear thread:rak_01:

[Gyronamics]

There are very few one shot mechanics. You see a lot more if you keep dying to the same one though.

 

And these are your threads: http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=76649

[Slowpokeking]

There are very few one shot mechanics. You see a lot more if you keep dying to the same one though.

 

And these are your threads: http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=76649

No, level 55 ops got quite a lot. Revan also have a lot of 1 shot mech.

 

So you are bringing other threads up?

[Gyronamics]

Name the fights where "1-shot" mechanics are a problem for you.

 

Any of them

 

One of them.

 

There can't be too many if they are not a problem.

 

All you have to do is make a thread asking how to avoid failing and you'll be given a shedload of info.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Slowpokeking]

Name the fights where "1-shot" mechanics are a problem for you.

 

Any of them

 

One of them.

 

There can't be too many if they are not a problem.

 

All you have to do is make a thread asking how to avoid failing and you'll be given a shedload of info.

 

Again you failed to understand what did others mean.

[Gyronamics]

I'm skipping the junk to get to the fact that you cant do the mechanics.

 

Your post history shows many issues with old content and lack of a decent team.

 

Being killed does not happen when you do the mechanics correctly with a competent team.

 

 

In other words, get the magical ingredients of knowing the tactic and be in a proper raiding team and suddenly there is no 1-shot haunting you, just **** you have to do to kill the boss, AKA the mechanics.

 

 

You bemoaning "death" as a penalty for failing a hardest mode fight is utterly ridiculous and I ignore it.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Torvai]

No, level 55 ops got quite a lot. Revan also have a lot of 1 shot mech.

 

Actually, the amount of one shots depends on how you define it. In my definition a 1-shot mechanic is something that either kills a player or wipes your group instantly and the only way to prevent it is to play the mechanic properly. So I don't consider something that has the capability of killing someone, but can be cheesed by cooldowns, as a 1-shot.

Also, mechanics that push or pull you of a platform or something and kills you basically with fall damage isn't a oneshot in my eyes. Because that's something that isn't specific to a certain encounter, but to the game in general. If you fall down somewhere, you die.

With that in mind, let's see how many each 55 op in NiM has:

 

 

Asation

1) None

2) None

3) Deletion Protocol

4) Nanites, if they run out.

5) Adds and Tentacle Slam in 2nd phase

3 1shots in 5 fights, not that much.

 

S&V

1) None

2) None. Start can be avoided with Phasewalk, so it can be cheesed.

3) Not killing Snipers fast enough

4) Failing the city infiltration.

5) None. Not taking the elevator doesn't count.

6) None

7) The laser beam adds

3 in 7 fights, also not that much

 

DF:

1) NiM twin Attack

2) None

3) Magnet

4) Mines

5) Droids hit by the laser beam, Tentacles laser beams.

4 of 5, quite a lot.

 

DP:

1) None

2) Not jumping down after simplification

3) Not stepping in the past/future circles or standing in the wrong one, failing to kill the boss with 2 seeds, taking to long to plant them(considering this as one mechanic)

4) None

5) Death Marks and Brontes Tentacle laser.

5 in 3 encounters.

 

Overall roughly half of all fights have oneshot mechanics, which isn't much. Some have 2.

 

Let's look at Rav/ToS

Rav:

1) None

2) None

3) Failing to maintain at least 3 consoles

4) Not having a debuff in the last phase

5) Ricochet Shot

Again 3 of 5

 

ToS:

1) None

2) None

3) Getting hit by a rock

4) None

5) HK's kill shot(because falling of the edge and dieing isn't an encounter specific thing, even if the whole encounter revolves around trying to push you off the edge.

2 of 5.

 

So for all 55 and 60 Ops we have 20 one shot mechanics in 32 fights.

 

Now if you subtract everything that can be avoided by simply not standing in stupid(ie right positioning) it's 5 less(TFB Tentacle slam, Grob'thok magnet, brontes' hands in both DF and DP, Lurkers rocks) which would make a total of 15 in 32 fights, so less than half.

 

 

 

 

In regards to oneshots being repetitive, they're not. Because they all work different and pretty much all have a different aproach on how to avoid them. If you simply go by oneshot=oneshot=repetitive then you could also say every boss does damage and it's repetitive...

[TACeMossie]

You missed two!

 

 

DF

 

Draxus

Interrupting a corruptor while you still have the 'DO NOT INTERRUPT' debuff (though TBH you can just ignore the interrupt because mass affliction's damage sucks)

Failing to lose aggro on a dismantler after it punts you across the room

[Torvai]

You missed two!

 

 

DF

 

Draxus

Interrupting a corruptor while you still have the 'DO NOT INTERRUPT' debuff (though TBH you can just ignore the interrupt because mass affliction's damage sucks)

Failing to lose aggro on a dismantler after it punts you across the room

 

Nope, left them both out on purpose

For the not interrupt twice: If you completely ignore this, it's not a oneshot. You can heal through mass affliction. Iirc it even was a viable tactic done by some groups back in the day to simply ignore it and stack for aoe heals.

And the dismantlers can be countered by various cooldowns.

[CaraExas]

this whole thread seems to be 1 person saying "game is hard"

 

and everyone else saying "stop being bad"

 

or am i missing something?

[TACeMossie]

this whole thread seems to be 1 person saying "game is hard"

 

and everyone else saying "stop being bad"

 

or am i missing something?

 

Its not even that.

 

Its:

 

"3 year old content with an EXTREME DIFFICULTY tag is still too hard because I can't ignore the mechanics! Remove the penalty for ignoring mechanics so I can ignore them and beat all the ops by rolling my face over the keyboard kthnxbai"

[CaraExas]

Game is Hard- B̶a̶t̶t̶l̶e̶b̶u̶g̶ Slowpokeking 2015

[FerkWork]

Game is Hard- B̶a̶t̶t̶l̶e̶b̶u̶g̶ Slowpokeking 2015

 

Slowpoke le King

[TACeMossie]

Slowpoke le King

 

Better slowpoke king

[FerkWork]

Better slowpoke king

 

Smashing

[rreddy]

is what i have to say about your 1 shot mechanics, happened in our raid just now.... learn to play.

[CaraExas]

is what i have to say about your 1 shot mechanics, happened in our raid just now.... learn to play.

 

lol clutch leap

[FerkWork]

is what i have to say about your 1 shot mechanics, happened in our raid just now.... learn to play.

 

Nerf Sentinels to Op

[onegoldpls]

So op's thread with good point turned into trash posting. Nice community here.

One shot mechanics without possibility to absorb incoming damage are always poor development. Even much harder warcraft's raids rarely have that.

Edited September 1, 2015 by onegoldpls

[trendiee]

In fact, I'd argue it isn't even the hardest fight this game saw - that honour goes to the first version of NiM Dread Guards. And yes, I know there weren't any insta-kill mechanics... oh wait hard enrage

 

Most overrated fight ever

(and doom was a oneshot)

[AndoEyrune]

So op's thread with good point turned into trash posting. Nice community here.

One shot mechanics without possibility to absorb incoming damage are always poor development. Even much harder warcraft's raids rarely have that.

 

Everyone's point is that one-shots are part of NiM fights, and they're very avoidable (especially with 5 extra levels), and if the op is having issues it's a fault of their own, not the game devs.