I'm Getting Tired of the Bads

[Saikochoro]

Seriously, how does a pylon get capped when there are 4 defenders there? How?

 

How does the door in voidstar get capped in front of 5 defenders while I am defending the other side with the other 2 on my team against 5 of the enemy?

 

I ask these questions and the response.... "I was fighting!" Well perhaps you could fight the person capping.

 

I know there have always been bads, but it is becoming the norm to have warzones full of them instead of the random bad warzone. I just don't get it.

 

Go into an arena with a jugg tank....he is in shi cho form. I politely ask him if he notices that he is in the wrong stance and that he should put on soresu form. No response. So, I ask him again just in case he didn't hear. "Please put on soresu form and guard our healer." No response. Lose the match. Ask him again to put on tank stance and finally get a response..."I'm a dps tank! Shut up!"

 

I call incs when I see an enemy rounding the corner from mid to snow. I see that all 7 of my teammates are at grass. Okay maybe there is a big fight over there. Wait...there are 3 more enemies rounding the corner from mid. Still plenty of time for one of the speedier toons to come help. "4 inc snow...come quick" No respone. I see an enemy stealth by me and get lucky and sleep dart him. "5 snow....help." Enemy sorc makes it to the node and starts capping. Sleep dart the sorc. "5 Snow" Others come and start spam capping the node, while I spam sleep dart on them and roll around. Of course I'm forced out. Throw grenade at them and kite around the node. Get choked by a jugg. "Snow help now" Exit combat. Enemies start spam capping again...."HELP SNOW" I am forced out of stealth again and end up getting killed. What happens next....you guessed it. "***....no incs!" "Learn to guard noob" "How the hell did you lose snow?"

 

Of course I reply by saying "look at the chat....I called like 10 times. There was plenty of time to get help." The reply..."Well we were preventing a sin and op from taking grass."

 

I can handle idiots in the occasional warzone. I can handle a single idiot in lots of warzones....you know the stealth guard that doesn't call incs, etc. But when match after match after match is full of brain dead players it gets really tiring. All of those examples happened in a 1.5 hour time period today....and that past couple weeks it has been that story.

 

It really isn't that hard to do simple team play. Attack the person with a target over there head. Call incs...no a stun doesn't actually make you unable to type. Look at your map every once in a while. Look at the node to see if people are capping it. Put on the correct stance and guard someone if you are queued as tank. Throw out taunts as dps sins, juggs, and pts. Responds to incs. None of these things are "SUPER ELITE SPECIAL TACTICS OF SWTOR ALL-STARS" They are basic things. If you are new...then take advice from people. If they are rude...ask them to be nicer about it, but still take the advice. Read your tooltips. How are these things hard?

 

/end rant

 

 

TL;DR Long rant about bad teammates.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Saikochoro

[Giliodor]

But what are you going to do about it? Absolutely nothing.

I find it a lot worse when I see people with 1k< expertise. It's so easy to get 162 PvE gear.

 

PS. Don't underestimate the might of the DPS tank m8.

[Svarthrafn]

I actually like when I get stunned while guarding.

 

"Nice, now I can type freely."

Edited August 15, 2015 by Svarthrafn

[DarthMaulUK]

I cap behind players all the time. I thrive on bads! Unfortunately, most of the decent pvp'ers left with the arrival of arenas and the rest have moved on because nothing new has been added for almost 18 months. Now, we are left with Ultra casuals, who are ultra bad.

[Saikochoro]

I've been trying to teach people for a long time and I never start by yelling at them. I always do so in a polite manner. But there are so many people that just refuse to learn...hence the term bad.

 

Oh those same matches had many people in pve gear. Another one I didn't mention had a tank in 192 gear. I politely said, "Just a helpful hint....if you use some basic comms to buy some 162 rated gear or lower bolster will work much better for you until you are able to get pvp gear." Response, "This gear gives me better HP and I'm a tank so I need HP." "Understandable, but the loss of expertise is not worth the extra HP. Having more expertise will help you to have a better time in pvp." "Whatever...tanks need HP not expertise."

 

As far as dps tanks go.... If you want to deal a good amount of damage as a tank you should still be in tank stance. Just put in more dps stats. Sin and PT tanks can both deal very good damage in their respective tank stances. Or use vengeance and get in soresu form.

 

I'm just tired of the amount of bad in this game. I would understand if these concepts were actually complicated and hard to understand, but they aren't. Pretty much everything in this game related to pvp is simple and easy to understand.

[Saikochoro]

It makes me want to face palm when I cap behind the enemies too. Not just when my teammate are stupid. Mainly because I know I will probably end up with the people I capped behind at some point.

[Icykill_]

Seriously, how does a pylon get capped when there are 4 defenders there? How?

 

How does the door in voidstar get capped in front of 5 defenders while I am defending the other side with the other 2 on my team against 5 of the enemy?

 

I ask these questions and the response.... "I was fighting!" Well perhaps you could fight the person capping.

 

I know there have always been bads, but it is becoming the norm to have warzones full of them instead of the random bad warzone. I just don't get it.

 

Go into an arena with a jugg tank....he is in shi cho form. I politely ask him if he notices that he is in the wrong stance and that he should put on soresu form. No response. So, I ask him again just in case he didn't hear. "Please put on soresu form and guard our healer." No response. Lose the match. Ask him again to put on tank stance and finally get a response..."I'm a dps tank! Shut up!"

 

I call incs when I see an enemy rounding the corner from mid to snow. I see that all 7 of my teammates are at grass. Okay maybe there is a big fight over there. Wait...there are 3 more enemies rounding the corner from mid. Still plenty of time for one of the speedier toons to come help. "4 inc snow...come quick" No respone. I see an enemy stealth by me and get lucky and sleep dart him. "5 snow....help." Enemy sorc makes it to the node and starts capping. Sleep dart the sorc. "5 Snow" Others come and start spam capping the node, while I spam sleep dart on them and roll around. Of course I'm forced out. Throw grenade at them and kite around the node. Get choked by a jugg. "Snow help now" Exit combat. Enemies start spam capping again...."HELP SNOW" I am forced out of stealth again and end up getting killed. What happens next....you guessed it. "***....no incs!" "Learn to guard noob" "How the hell did you lose snow?"

 

Of course I reply by saying "look at the chat....I called like 10 times. There was plenty of time to get help." The reply..."Well we were preventing a sin and op from taking grass."

 

I can handle idiots in the occasional warzone. I can handle a single idiot in lots of warzones....you know the stealth guard that doesn't call incs, etc. But when match after match after match is full of brain dead players it gets really tiring. All of those examples happened in a 1.5 hour time period today....and that past couple weeks it has been that story.

 

It really isn't that hard to do simple team play. Attack the person with a target over there head. Call incs...no a stun doesn't actually make you unable to type. Look at your map every once in a while. Look at the node to see if people are capping it. Put on the correct stance and guard someone if you are queued as tank. Throw out taunts as dps sorcs, juggs, and pts. Responds to incs. None of these things are "SUPER ELITE SPECIAL TACTICS OF SWTOR ALL-STARS" They are basic things. If you are new...then take advice from people. If they are rude...ask them to be nicer about it, but still take the advice. Read your tooltips. How are these things hard?

 

/end rant

 

TL;DR Long rant about bad teammates.

 

While I am also sick of the "bads" as you put it... Its not the combat skills I have an issue with... Everyone has different skill lvls and have to improve some how... It's the attitude that's the problem... Blame Arena... I think only about a quarter of players know how to play objective pvp properly or know tactics... It's the Death Match attitude that most people have that has infected pvp... DPS and healing numbers are all people care about and brute force... So even new pvpers think this is how you play objective pvp... So the cycle continues... Eventually there won't be enough of us objective pvp players left to carry teams of death match people... As it is, its usually only 2-3 of us on a team of 8, who carry the rest... unless you run a premade of objective pvpers... You can only usuall win against a Death match gank squad if you have good object players on you're side... The gankers might smash your numbers... But they lose the match... This is the most frustrating thing if you are on their team...

When will people get it... No one cares about your numbers if you lose every match... You wonder why objective pvpers rage quit matches... You can usually tell within the first minute what sort of team you have when they don't respond to calls... Fight away from nodes, chasing people... Talking smack to the other team while ganking them 4v1... Cap a node and run off, leaving it unguarded to try and cap another...

This is also why people roll and gear up as dps tanks... So they can run around smashing people without dying... The art of good tanking in objective pvp is a dying breed because they are so under appreciated and it's all about that DPS... Plus the fact that most of the time you rarely have a healer or if you do its 2-3 healers and you don't need a tank anyway... Then when they pop arena... The tanks have no idea what to do or even have the right gear to be affective... Sure there are good tanks out there... But not as many as there should be...

I've gotten sick of giving directions in WZs... If I see some noob cap and run off, I'll ask them to go back... I wait 30-45secs... if they make no attempt to return or nobody else does, I leave the match... If we hold 2 out of three nodes and I'm calling incs or the other node guard is and the rest of the team doesn't respond because they "must" have that 3rd node or have to run all over the map killing people... I leave... If people play death ball instead of hutt ball... I leave... And I don't care if we are winning... its just not worth the stress or agro to stay... If I keep popping match after match with people doing the same dumb things... I switch factions or lvls... If there is no difference... I log out and play something else

[Ballroompirate]

I hate to be that guy but the amount of bads in this game is just....how

 

This game even has announcers in most maps that explain what to do and people still fail

[Saikochoro]

I hate to be that guy but the amount of bads in this game is just....how

 

This game even has announcers in most maps that explain what to do and people still fail

 

Like I said....these are very simple and easy things people are failing at. Its very frustrating.

 

Side note: swtor site keeps logging me out when I get to the forums. Then I log back in and takes me to the account screen. Then I hit forums and it logs me out again. Took me like 20 minutes to get back into the forums.

 

/resume rant

[Ballroompirate]

Like I said....these are very simple and easy things people are failing at. Its very frustrating.

 

Side note: swtor site keeps logging me out when I get to the forums. Then I log back in and takes me to the account screen. Then I hit forums and it logs me out again. Took me like 20 minutes to get back into the forums.

 

/resume rant

 

I hate how people even fail at listening, like when someone marks the healer to kill first and no one but yourself is attacking the healer....then you call it out and still nothing. It's not rocket science, people wonder why people rage in pvp, it's cause the amount of stupidity (sorry but it's the truth) that happens is just mind blowing

[Yezzan]

blame yourselves.

 

No one wants to guard the node, and the guy who draws the short straw, got zero MVP votes because he didn't top DPS or healing. There was only one match I have played in this game, where I got MVP votes for guarding. I actually got 6 MVP votes. But 99% 0f the time, you are better off chasing numbers and medals.

 

I know how hard it is to be sitting on a node while everyone is out of sight and killing stuff. But, there are also, a lot of pre-mades trolling regs. So, it's a toss up.

 

Start voting for players who effectively guard node and see if there is an improvement in objective0style arenas.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Yezzan

[foxmob]

But what are you going to do about it? Absolutely nothing.

I find it a lot worse when I see people with 1k< expertise. It's so easy to get 162 PvE gear.

 

PS. Don't underestimate the might of the DPS tank m8.

 

I just leave if I'm in a bad mood. that's the system BW designed. random teams. no matchmaking. "random" maps. if you don't want to deal with it...don't. I used to cling to some ethical code, but that's simply not how the game works. that's just the individual trying to impose his own code on a game that ignores said code.

 

TL; DR: do yourself a favor and just leave war zone.

Edited August 15, 2015 by foxmob

[foxmob]

blame yourselves.

 

No one wants to guard the node, and the guy who draws the short straw, got zero MVP votes because he didn't top DPS or healing. There was only one match I have played in this game, where I got MVP votes for guarding. I actually got 6 MVP votes. But 99% 0f the time, you are better off chasing numbers and medals.

 

I know how hard it is to be sitting on a node while everyone is out of sight and killing stuff. But, there are also, a lot of pre-mades trolling regs. So, it's a toss up.

 

Start voting for players who effectively guard node and see if there is an improvement in objective0style arenas.

the fact that you give a crap about MVP votes or that getting them or not could affect what you do in a WZ makes me question you more than the baddie who gets capped on. votes are meaningless. ppl vote for friends and numbers and occasionally when they see someone do/say something constructive, but to get all butthurt b/c YOU (impersonal) didn't get recognized is...frankly...hilarious.

Edited August 15, 2015 by foxmob

[Yezzan]

And that's the attitude that makes players just go in and do whatever makes them "enjoy" the game. You don't want to roll with "bads" then roll with a kiffing group; problem solved. I mentioned the MVP votes because it is extrinsic reward that could encourage more players to effectively guard objectives. 90% of the time people vote for the person with the highest Damage or heal.

 

The attitude in PvP really stinks, and its coming from players like you who think that you are the bantha poo of PVP, and jumping on players who you think are "bads" . There will always be bads in regs (and even ranked) that is why you still get rewards even when you loose.

 

I had to block some idiot, yesterday, because he went off, the deep end, on someone in our group, whom he thought was wearing PvE stuff. The guy changed over to PvP gear and the idiot was still at it, talking bout, not even fully aug, tsk, tsk. Then he was telling the guy to uninstall.

 

Furthernore, I am not "Butthurt" about not getting MVP vote or what-not. It was a point of reference to illustrate that node guarding is not taken seriously because players usually regard DPS/HPS numbers as more effective contribution to the team. A way to dispel that misrepresentation is to extrinsically reward the players who take up that task.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Yezzan

[Racter]

It has seemed pretty out of control since I came back. I would be less bother by people not doing objectives if they were even remotely good at doing damage. Most of these people end games with 2-400 DPS, 0 protection, no off healing. Seeing as taunts are off the GCD, and off healing for some classes is super, ridiculously strong and easy, on top of doing no damage, I have to wonder what these people are even doing.

 

It's equally frustrating that, in a game with raid markers in pvp, where you don't even have to personally know anything about how to play really, you still have people tunneling random targets that don't matter instead of dog piling on the marked ones. It really makes no sense. lol

 

Most of these people are the same ones that run around and break cc all the time for no reason. Half the time it feels like it's on purpose, and that loses as many if not more games than just outright leaving nodes undefended and/or not calling inc. I just don't get it. This game is easy and has been getting even easier since launch. It seems like you couldn't screw most of this up without directly trying to do so.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Racter

[Groncho]

cap a node?

what's that?

[AlrikFassbauer]

Seriously, how does a pylon get capped when there are 4 defenders there? How?

 

Seriously, that's a question you should ask not us but rather

 

- the makers of the MatchMaker

- those who decide to farm bads by not entering Ranked

- those who are too good for playing against Newbies - but do so, because Newvbies are so much easier to farm.

 

The question you ask actually has TWO sides :

 

- Those "bads" who are NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT put against other "bads" OF THEIR SAME LEVEL AND SKILL

 

- Those "goods" who are SO MUCH SUPERIOR BUT are matched against Newbies who barely have learned the finesse of PvP 1

 

 

For far too well coordinated (voice chat !) groups and players with - for examnple - top 100 Ranking , it's far too easy to farm Newbies - THEY HAVE LEARNED EVERY FINESSE !

 

And THEn, these OverGods just jump into an - let's say - level 20 character and farm everything - in a group, of course !

 

It's like the number 1 team of Basketball getting into a match against Teenagers - and the worst thing is that some of them actually like this way of farming !

 

Years later, they will say : "But it was fun destroying their PvP, wasn't it ?" And they will giggle over how they made other people's lives miserable. Because they loved it.

[Alericus]

my fav are the bads who make some very glaring announcements in chat in pvp...in general not in group or ops but in general..

 

so 1) you under 2018 now either regs or ranked i drop, i figure you dont care or you are a idiot, either way im screwed if i stay on that team

 

2)we get capped and i see no inc i drop

3)triple capped i drop

 

you get the point my patience is done at lvl 60 there are few excuses anymore for bad play so since you dont care neither do i im playing for my objectives..to win

and if it is clear you cant or wont or try to win i make a decision to fight or flee. sadly as stated earlier fleeing is getting more and more standard.

 

My only real suggestion for resolving the smash monkey scenario..zero reward for losing a match. It might also curtail the win trade scenario.

[Cox_The_Beast]

I can understand the OP's rant, as I have witnessed that growth of clueless ppl (not going to call them Bads, because I can't be sure they all are) myself, as of late - especially after SoR, but even right before it, with12Exp, there were some.

 

I however am against the "no reward if you lose" scenario, because with those ppl getting in queue, many of us would be cursed to stay stuck because of them. It could be different if Ignore worked in PvP too, but it doesn't.

I would suggest rewards be based off performance, instead. Objective Points, that is... And Medals. IF one gets to have both of them high, it's usually because he did his best to be of use.

 

It's getting far too common to see:

- ppl ignoring Inc calls and blaming you for not calling. At lvl 60 aswell, no less...

- ppl not bothering to even attack the marked target, after you announce in Ops Chat you marked a Healer that should be focused as much as possible. No excuse there, it's pretty much a given after the explanation - usually given after dying and respawning.

- ppl deathmatching instead of playing objectives. It makes me feel really sad to see that, especially when those same ppl can't even handle things in an Arena - not a Ranked one, mind you. If someone's effort is mostly deathmatching, I have every right to expect that guy to be a great Tank/DPS/Healer. He're deathmatching, after all. However, those same guys, regardless of gear, are usually the ones which, in an Arena, can't even bring one opponent under 75% health - without any sort of healing class on the other team, mind you - let alone be of use to the team... Other than live bait, that is.

 

As such, tbh I'm seriously being annoyed myself at top lvl. It's the main reason I'm taking a break from top lvl PvP right now. I can accept a clueless player in lowbies, or even midbies, because why not... But at top lvl? Seriously? It's like taking an airplane out for a fly, when you can't even drive a bike without falling every two meters...!

 

Sorry, I felt the need to rant a bit myself... Took the occasion here. I'm a paitent guy, but patience isn't infinite regardless.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Cox_The_Beast

[DomiSotto]

A lot of folks seem to be fighting off nodes lately, even when there is a known stealth at the other team. I am wondering if the reason is that with the mass transfers, a lot of folks that were simply fighting in the wakes of the regulars on their servers that took care of the objectives get thrown together in pugs. And they now go against the teams that kept the integrity. So, a pug now plays together without the leadership.

 

I've never played as a part of an objective-oriented team, my main concern was to learn my class and role, and I've given up the hope to be actually good. I am content with playing support.

 

It is much harder to play with a group, particularly when you get the divided priorities. As a healer, I should be with a main group. But nobody went to take the node. I don't know how to fight 2 vs 1, unlike an actually good healer, but nobody came for the inc to start with, or paid attention that the node remained uncapped, and that the ratio changed where they were fighting. So, with the best of intentions, I end up being a bad. I know, the solution is to "git good", but I don't think it's within my capacity, so I need support when there is more than one attacker.

 

Unfortunately, I have also seen people being extremely rude overall, and specifically when other players called for help or wanted to switch off the node guarding as healers, so I am afraid to even ask or say anything at all anymore save for an inc.

 

Maybe it is because a lot of people want to try PvP, seeing that the end-game for the PvE side for the moment is a bit stagnated.

 

Give it time, we'll most likely correct. For now, I am just keep trying to do the best I can and not worry if there are loses.

Edited August 15, 2015 by DomiSotto

[jauvtus]

Agree with OP 100%. Like when I hold off 3-4 attackers at voidstar door with a merc on my mara while fotm braindead rerollers cant stop a plant on the other side. And the bomb blows, and they are still fighting at the first door when a scoundrel is already planting 2nd bomb. I dont expect everyone to have the highest skills in dueling (which is like 2% of wz matches anyway) or knowing every little trick their class have, but how hard it is to read the damn chat? And for the poster who said MVP votes discourage from guarding: I dont know many ppl who play as much objective-focused as myself, I also never get any MVP votes (cant have best dmg when running from node to node instead of just spamming Force Storm on 5-6 ppl constantly), but that wont stop me from focusing objectives because THATS HOW YOU WIN. Also I hate so much when they leave a me as a mara for guarding: we are the only class with exactly zero guarding utilitites (no stealth, no stealthscan, no spammable aoe, no Ready for anything, no 3 lives, etc). And when I dare to call out that 1 of the sins maybe could swap with they tell me to shut the **** up and guard, they will come and help me, ignoring the fact that if I dont have all my defCDs ready, they wont be fast enough, also 90% of the time they dont give a ****, they are farming dps.

[Dalfurend]

Throw out taunts as dps sorcs, juggs, and pts.

 

The only thing I picked up from that entire rant was that sorcs can taunt.

 

xD

 

Happy Saturday!

[Yezzan]

Well, this definitely helps ALOT.....???

 

http://s15.postimg.org/lrya2u28b/convo_pvp.jpg

pic hosting

[Jake_Chambers]

Agree with OP 100%. Like when I hold off 3-4 attackers at voidstar door with a merc on my mara while fotm braindead rerollers cant stop a plant on the other side. And the bomb blows, and they are still fighting at the first door when a scoundrel is already planting 2nd bomb. I dont expect everyone to have the highest skills in dueling (which is like 2% of wz matches anyway) or knowing every little trick their class have, but how hard it is to read the damn chat? And for the poster who said MVP votes discourage from guarding: I dont know many ppl who play as much objective-focused as myself, I also never get any MVP votes (cant have best dmg when running from node to node instead of just spamming Force Storm on 5-6 ppl constantly), but that wont stop me from focusing objectives because THATS HOW YOU WIN. Also I hate so much when they leave a me as a mara for guarding: we are the only class with exactly zero guarding utilitites (no stealth, no stealthscan, no spammable aoe, no Ready for anything, no 3 lives, etc). And when I dare to call out that 1 of the sins maybe could swap with they tell me to shut the **** up and guard, they will come and help me, ignoring the fact that if I dont have all my defCDs ready, they wont be fast enough, also 90% of the time they dont give a ****, they are farming dps.

 

It sounds like you just have to forgo guarding on your marauder even if it means your team will lose, eventually someone will get the point. Or maybe just go off node or rush to mid before others. Sometimes a death match in mid is just what you need to shake off the frustration

[Technohic]

the fact that you give a crap about MVP votes or that getting them or not could affect what you do in a WZ makes me question you more than the baddie who gets capped on. votes are meaningless. ppl vote for friends and numbers and occasionally when they see someone do/say something constructive, but to get all butthurt b/c YOU (impersonal) didn't get recognized is...frankly...hilarious.

 

Yeah MVP votes are pointless but he does have a point when people are all obsessed with the damage numbers at the end of the match to where they just try to make numbers first. In before "why can't they do both." As obviously you can but I would rather someone tunnel the objective first and do the damage required for that or even not do much damage but stop the cap rather than tunnel a distraction and get the numbers.