ERIC MUSCO, Main Stats going away??

[branmakmuffin]

yes from main stat.

 

But if you get +50 cunning on an aim user do you really think its going to add that much damage?

or +50 willpower on a Strength user?

 

even 8-10DPS on a parse that is doing 4k dps is .0025 or .25% even getting 1% from a main stat is 4x the stat gain than an off stat.

Yeah, I think as someone noted, this is an issue of completionism, not min-maxing.

[Jadescythe]

yes from main stat.

 

But if you get +50 cunning on an aim user do you really think its going to add that much damage?

or +50 willpower on a Strength user?

 

even 8-10DPS on a parse that is doing 4k dps is .0025 or .25% even getting 1% from a main stat is 4x the stat gain than an off stat.

 

Yes, it does do that with your secondary main stat. It will increase both your bonus damage and crit by the same amount as your primary main stat, but only for one of your two ability types. For the Inquisitor, my understanding is that strength will increase their melee bonus damage and crit, but not force bonus damage or crit. So a Sorc would see no benefit, but a Sin would see the benefit to all of their saber attacks. As you can guess, it's more of a boost to some classes than others and remember that an increase in bonus damage is not necessarily an equal increase to DPS.

[branmakmuffin]

Yes, it does do that with your secondary main stat. It will increase both your bonus damage and crit by the same amount as your primary main stat, but only for one of your two ability types. For the Inquisitor, my understanding is that strength will increase their melee bonus damage and crit, but not force bonus damage or crit. So a Sorc would see no benefit, but a Sin would see the benefit to all of their saber attacks. As you can guess, it's more of a boost to some classes than others and remember that an increase in bonus damage is not necessarily an equal increase to DPS.

There is no argument that if Assassin 3 and Assassin Q have everything equal but for Assassin Q having +50 Strength over Assassin 3, Assassin Q is measurably superior. The question is whether it's appreciable. You can measure the amount of water on your body as you leave the ocean and the ocean has that much less water in it, but it's certainly not an appreciable amount.

[Max_Killjoy]

Yes, there are "tertiary" stats so to speak. It's broken into what slots they take up on Armorings/Mods/Enhancements. Main stats, Expertise, and Endurance are the "primary" stats, found on Armorings and the first 2 stat slots of mods (with Endurance/Expertise popping up on enhancements as well, of course). Secondary stats are, at the moment, Power and Critical Rating for DPS/Heals, Absorb and Defense for Tanks. They take up the third stat slot of mods and the second of enhancements (after endurance/expertise). Tertiary stats are everything else. Accuracy, Alacrity, Surge Rating, etc. and are found on enhancements.

 

The point being made by that is you can't forgo Power entirely for Surge Rating at the moment. You can forgo Power entirely for Critical Rating but not Surge Rating or any other tertiary stat because they don't occupy the same spot in stat allocations. The best you can do is go for different enhancements with different ratios between Endurance/Power/Tertiary stat in that regard. But the choice is between Power and Critical Rating at the moment, nothing else.

 

If you'd like a better explanation of this, check out this link as it explains it better than I can. It's a breakdown of stat allocation, basically.

 

Like I said, there are no tertiary stats. And no, I don't care how some metagamer subjectively breaks them down.

 

There's now some grumblings I'm seeing that make it sound like Mods and Enhancements will have fewer bonuses to stats? Is that a thing too? Because if it is... this deal just keeps getting worse.

 

Where's the option to just stick with 3.x in October? Because that's looking like the best option by far.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[TheAINDREW]

This is horrible news. Many people are going to leave the game, already some people are talking about moving guilds, SWTOR is going to die after this one, good job EA, ya dun ****ed up.

[DOHboy]

Yes, it does do that with your secondary main stat. It will increase both your bonus damage and crit by the same amount as your primary main stat, but only for one of your two ability types. For the Inquisitor, my understanding is that strength will increase their melee bonus damage and crit, but not force bonus damage or crit. So a Sorc would see no benefit, but a Sin would see the benefit to all of their saber attacks. As you can guess, it's more of a boost to some classes than others and remember that an increase in bonus damage is not necessarily an equal increase to DPS.

 

then why do people not add str augments to shadow/assassins?

why not add cunning augments to trooper/bh? because the status gains is so small that adding more of it does worse than adding a primary stat. If it was even slightly significant you would want to add more of it to enhance your output. But in all cases so minor that its meaningless.

 

IF they were even remotely valueable, people would be adding 1 or 2 augments for those stats to incrase dps (since a single augment is as much as all the datacrons about 50points). But they don't since it is better to add a tertiary stat or main stat before even looking at an off stat.

 

I don' tthink they do as much as you think they so, otherwise you would maximize the gain from offstats by adding more.

[GordoKhan]

Well we can go with the mastery stat for a more friendlier gaming experience, then what next? Eight keys to play: W/A/S/D and for combat: hit key, hit harder key, heal key and heal more key. That should make it really user friendly

[DOHboy]

Well we can go with the mastery stat for a more friendlier gaming experience, then what next? Eight keys to play: W/A/S/D and for combat: hit key, hit harder key, heal key and heal more key. That should make it really user friendly

 

Its funny anytime anyone ever talks about str/willpower/cunning/aim in any context of gear its stack "mainstat" over secondary stats. WE have since the beginning of the game always referred to them that way. meaning regardless of class you have a primary stat.

 

so instead of them calling it str/cunning/willpower/aim they had said primary stat/mainstat/ or heaven forbid MASTERY we wouldn't be talking about it at all.

 

the names chosen were meaningless, even more so when you have gear that was "jedi knight/sith warrior only" with strength...welcome to the redundancy department of redundancy.

[Andryah]

Its funny anytime anyone ever talks about str/willpower/cunning/aim in any context of gear its stack "mainstat" over secondary stats. WE have since the beginning of the game always referred to them that way. meaning regardless of class you have a primary stat.

 

so instead of them calling it str/cunning/willpower/aim they had said primary stat/mainstat/ or heaven forbid MASTERY we wouldn't be talking about it at all.

 

the names chosen were meaningless, even more so when you have gear that was "jedi knight/sith warrior only" with strength...welcome to the redundancy department of redundancy.

 

Indeed.

 

But logic and fact have never interdicted a good rant in the forums.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Andryah

[Idoya]

If everyone is going to have the same main stat, then everyone is going to be competing for gear in flashpoints and ops. So all I can say is, there'd better be an increase in gear drops in all of 'em, because everyone need rolling is gonna be a thing now.

 

Won't bother me though. Talent trees and now this? Unsubscribing and uninstalling the moment the patch hits. Until then, it's still playable.

[jedip_enguin]

Won't bother me though. Talent trees and now this? Unsubscribing and uninstalling the moment the patch hits. Until then, it's still playable.

 

This change makes exactly 0 difference to how the game plays.

 

Your mainstat is now called mastery instead of cunning/aim/strength/willpower, the change is entirely cosmetic.

 

There is definitely some questionable items coming down the pipe, but this is not one of them.

[Sobekeus]

Some drivel

 

Main stats didn't mean a damn thing. Because you only had one that mattered to your class, so what was the point in calling them strength, cunning, willpower, and aim? You get the same thing with one stat, but a whole lot more options on gear and build without the silly main stats.

[Tallwyn]

Well we can go with the mastery stat for a more friendlier gaming experience, then what next? Eight keys to play: W/A/S/D and for combat: hit key, hit harder key, heal key and heal more key. That should make it really user friendly

 

Most games that go down this road plan to port their game to consoles. I kinda dont see that happening to TOR. Even then, this game would still be too hard for way too many ppl...

[Jedi_riches]

If everyone is going to have the same main stat, then everyone is going to be competing for gear in flashpoints and ops. So all I can say is, there'd better be an increase in gear drops in all of 'em, because everyone need rolling is gonna be a thing now.

 

Won't bother me though. Talent trees and now this? Unsubscribing and uninstalling the moment the patch hits. Until then, it's still playable.

 

Actually I cant remember exactly the words but it was mentioned that "everyone" will get something relevent to them for doing flashpoints, this did not get elaborated on however but it appears that we will not have to pray to the RN Goddess for us to get stuff, whether this means flashpoint tokens on completion that can be used to purchase gear from a vender or another system in place.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

Actually I cant remember exactly the words but it was mentioned that "everyone" will get something relevent to them for doing flashpoints, this did not get elaborated on however but it appears that we will not have to pray to the RN Goddess for us to get stuff, whether this means flashpoint tokens on completion that can be used to purchase gear from a vender or another system in place.

 

It was stated in the flashpoints and ops in KotFE blog. From what I recall, they said that each member of a scaled raid would get their own, level appropriate, gear drops. We'll have to wait and see if that will be a new kind of drop for all group content or just the raids and FPs that are scaled to allow for level 50-65 players.

[DOHboy]

If everyone is going to have the same main stat, then everyone is going to be competing for gear in flashpoints and ops. So all I can say is, there'd better be an increase in gear drops in all of 'em, because everyone need rolling is gonna be a thing now.

 

Won't bother me though. Talent trees and now this? Unsubscribing and uninstalling the moment the patch hits. Until then, it's still playable.

 

you mean like the token gear that is already stat independent that everyone already "fights" over? or you talking about the trash gear that drops that nobody cares about anyway?

[Khevar]

you mean like the token gear that is already stat independent that everyone already "fights" over? or you talking about the trash gear that drops that nobody cares about anyway?

Exactly.

 

I don't really get the people running around freaking out that gear drop drama will be worse with the new system.

[RavenscarX]

99% of my gear comes from Comms and the GTN...I don't get why people care about stuff they'll likely NEVER WEAR....Most of the token gear is just re-named gear you can already get elsewhere...who cares about the lame set bonus junk? It' isn't even that useful...

[Faardor]

goddamn it. This thread was dead for almost a month. Please let it die again :l

 

The real issue isn't main stat its crit / surge. If people want to complain about gearing options they should complain about that.

[Lansotey]

gosh darn it. This thread was dead for almost a month. Please let it die again :l

 

The real issue isn't main stat its crit / surge. If people want to complain about gearing options they should complain about that.

 

I mean if you want to let them get away with outlandish changes for POINTLESS things that make a big difference in one area, why not more? How about they just make one stat that dictates it all? We can call it A-hole stat.

 

Seriously though, rolling crit and surge together is understandable to an extent since many classes (most of my characters as a matter of fact) don't add any crit into their builds due to auto-procs and what have you. However, changing the main stats around is a HUGE mistake...not because the gear drops or what not; the mistake is because of diminishing returns already present in the game. Having one main stat means that now your build is completely and utterly determined by your tertiary stats (defense, crit, etc.) If anything they should have opened that up to have all the stats affect each class differently.

 

Ex. A Guardian tank that has high strength/endurance can now benefit from having more cunning; since as a defender you would have to have your wits about you in a fight, this would be an appropriate choice. This secondary stat would be separate from your main stat so that you could actually see more of a defensive return from putting stats into there. Then add a fourth slot to your gear for a secondary mod to add to this stat instead of taking away from anything (alternately they could keep the existing mod slot and balance the need for the secondary stat in your build).

 

This would be a better option than rolling them all into one and dumbing down the gear system more than it already has been (however, this leads me to a whole comparison about how SW:TOR is not a game targeted toward; teens, fans of Star Wars, and MMO players in general, but mindless masses with an capability of a trained monkey to play the game that are impressed by a glowing stick, no matter how times they have to hit someone with it before they drop).

 

Okay, so there's a hardcore stance to be taken and facts to be given other than personal opinion about the changes being horrid; that said, among the many issues the game has (and there are many), the one off level 30+ that hasn't learned which stats to put on their character isn't one of them (it's painfully obvious which gear you should go after when all your mission rewards give you gear tailored to your class already). To go through at this late stage in the game and change up something that is counted as more-or-less an MMO standard of having multiple stats to use, and change it to being one primary stat only is such a waste in time, energy and resources that could have been allocated to doing other things (developing new skills, creating a separation between pvp gear and pve gear, creating new species, classes, fixing glitched cartel gear, etc. (the list does go one a while about things the community wants/needs)), that would be more beneficial towards the betterment of the game as a whole. I think that more than the potential and likely result of this change that all classes will be; nurfed, made to feel less unique, etc., that people are frustrated with the fact that instead of fixing something that needs fixing they have wasted the time doing stat changes that are unnecessary.

 

But hey, this is my opinion on the matter and I'm not even a gear crazy maniac like the hardcore prog players that have crunched stats for hours on end to pump out ridiculous hits...i would imagine that most of them are going to move onto a game that doesn't intentionally ram a red-hot poker up their butt every chance they get. lol.

 

Yours,

J.

[SirUrza]

It's not that dangerous of a move. It only affects trash gear that no one should care about. A juggernaut will gain no benefit wearing the set piece armor for a powertech.

 

The only gear that matters in SWTOR have set piece bonuses and optimized enhancements. Set pieces are very specific and offer no benefit to the wrong class. When it comes to optimized enhancement armor, that's open season to anyone that needs the enhancement since no one should actually need the armoring and mod concerning how easily commendations can be obtained in this game.

Edited October 1, 2015 by SirUrza

[hunterofprime]

No, what's going to happen is that instead of 25% of your raid rolling on a piece of gear, 100% of your raid is going to roll on it - remember that all gear going forward has been Adaptive..

 

Bioware, how did you NOT SEE THIS COMING?! I'm looking forward to this expansion and its focus on storytelling (it's about time), but I do like to raid and do flashpoints every now and then, but now every single person is going to want a new piece of gear.... Not to mention to what this will do to make classes look unique. Trooper with Jedi robes? Inquisitor looking like a bounty hunter? These things are possible to do now, but with every piece of gear, most people aren't going to care what it looks like, as long as there's more STATS!!