Andryah Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm against it, but honestly there are much worse things they could have done to stat allocation. Like take away everyone's +3% Accuracy bonuses without adjusting how much Accuracy-per-point-Accuracy-Rating we get, like they did in Same Old Revan. Why are you against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstankaroslo Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I simply carry a more positive minded approach to both life and games then some other players .. believe me: me too. Still, got annoyed by half of your posting. Back in the days when I was a bit vocal (I'm a lurker usually) for BW to continue personal or class story. You were the first among those that put us down with: "its impossible", "no economic sense", "avengers", and "go play something else". Glad the devs grew some balls and went for KotFE but what's been that's been, I'll try to maintain positive look on your posting. Have fun in game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) believe me: me too. Still, got annoyed by half of your posting. Back in the days when I was a bit vocal (I'm a lurker usually) for BW to continue personal or class story. You were the first among those that put us down with: "its impossible", "no economic sense", "avengers", and "go play something else". Glad the devs grew some balls and went for KotFE but what's been that's been, I'll try to maintain positive look on your posting. Have fun in game Well.. we still have many purists in the forum that want story but they want class specific story extensions to what we got a launch. And we are not getting that. Still no class specific mission extensions... just more relevance (alleged) to your class within the expac mission sets. And I STILL understand why returning to real class specific mission chains are not the best way to use their resources. Their approach to making more story, particularly in a chapter based manner, with more linked relevance to your choices and your class IS why I came back. It's efficient for them and it's good for players in an MMO that thrives because it is story centric to a large degree. Hopefully they don't disappoint me again. Edited August 12, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Why are you against it? This puzzles me, too. I have said many times over the course of my time there that the could just as well call the main stats "Endurance" and "The Other One," given there is no reason to mix and match main stats like there might be in a game like DDO (but then DDO does with main stats what TOR does with secondary stats like Acc, Crit, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 This puzzles me, too. I have said many times over the course of my time there that the could just as well call the main stats "Endurance" and "The Other One," given there is no reason to mix and match main stats like there might be in a game like DDO (but then DDO does with main stats what TOR does with secondary stats like Acc, Crit, etc.). I think it's cause some people believe that Strength, Aim, Cunning and Willpower being taken away somehow negates class identity. Until my BH can swing around Lightsabers, I think Class Identities will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monumenta Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 This puzzles me, too. I have said many times over the course of my time there that the could just as well call the main stats "Endurance" and "The Other One," given there is no reason to mix and match main stats like there might be in a game like DDO (but then DDO does with main stats what TOR does with secondary stats like Acc, Crit, etc.). absolutely wrong I love how the trolls just want to ignore this -> For a Strength based class (Sentinel / Mara for example) Willpower increases bonus damage / critical chance of Force abilities, for a Willpower based class (Sorc / Sage) Strength increases bonus damage and critical chance for melee abilities, Cunning based classes gain bonus damage and critical chance on ranged abilities from Aim. and just go on spreading misinformation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 This puzzles me, too. I have said many times over the course of my time there that the could just as well call the main stats "Endurance" and "The Other One," given there is no reason to mix and match main stats like there might be in a game like DDO (but then DDO does with main stats what TOR does with secondary stats like Acc, Crit, etc.). Actually you can mix aim and cunning on marksman snipers to maximize damage, just like you can mix some willpower into guardians and sentinels to maximize damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Actually you can mix aim and cunning on marksman snipers to maximize damage, just like you can mix some willpower into guardians and sentinels to maximize damage. False. Very false. There is no "mixing" to optimize. There are datacron boosts and nothing else for the "off-stat". Main stat will always provide better gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monumenta Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 False. Very false. There is no "mixing" to optimize. There are datacron boosts and nothing else for the "off-stat". Main stat will always provide better gains. again, misinformation explained above correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 again, misinformation explained above correctly Feel free to equip any mix of main stats on any class in any discipline and show me the DPS/HPS increase compared to the intended main stat only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 again, misinformation explained above correctly The facts are accurate but the conclusion is not. Main stat provides X contribution towards bonus damage and crit chance. Secondary stat provides Y contribution towards bonus damage and crit chance. But, X > Y. Therefore, there is no "mixing to maximize"... there is stacking main stat and grabbing both types of datacrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 again, misinformation explained above correctly No.....please stop. You're only hurting yourself putting aim stats onto a sniper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 No.....please stop. You're only hurting yourself putting aim stats onto a sniper. I went through this with them yesterday. They won't listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) The facts are accurate but the conclusion is not. Main stat provides X contribution towards bonus damage and crit chance. Secondary stat provides Y contribution towards bonus damage and crit chance. But, X > Y. Therefore, there is no "mixing to maximize"... there is stacking main stat and grabbing both types of datacrons. ^^ yep. We don't know yet how they will handle the datacrons with the move to a Mastery stat..... but some people have already insisted that they not take anything away and let everything stack. I'm pretty sure it won't happen that way... but no telling exactly what they choose to do... maybe drops some datacrons, maybe reduce the stat points for the datacrons and let them stack, or some other 3rd alternative. Edited August 12, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) They're not just doing away with "Main Stats", though. Each character should only have really been chasing gear/mods for one of those anyway, so it's not an actively game-damaging change. As noted elsewhere, that's not the change that I'm finding discouraging, although I consider it a complete waste of Bioware Austin's limited resources. It's the slow cramming together of secondary stats that we're seeing, starting with Crit/Surge. That IS going to take away from how different people build their characters, as for example I'll always forsake Surge for a higher rate of criticals, or to make sure Accuracy is high enough, or for faster cooldowns and channels and resource recovery, or... I'll take more reliable effect over bigger swings in effect any day. I always felt they had too many secondary stats to be honest. It does give players more flexibility in some cases, but it also create a lot of confusion in the process. All we have now is just enough info to get people worked up and create debate, discussion, an much opining (which is probably their actual intention ) Personally, for both the main and secondary stat changes they have revealed.. I'm going to take a wait and see on that before judging. We simply do not know enough details yet to do anything else. Edited August 12, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I always felt they had too many secondary stats to be honest. It does give players more flexibility in some cases, but it also create a lot of confusion in the process. All we have now is just enough info to get people worked up and create debate, discussion, an much opining (which is probably their actual intention ) Personally, for both the main and secondary stat changes they have revealed.. I'm going to take a wait and see on that before judging. We simply do not know enough details yet to do anything else. I come from the tabletop RPG world... the idea of SWTOR having "too many stats" is hard for me to get my head around after playing HERO system, cWoD, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzanLi Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If Main stats are being replace by Mastery, does that mean my Sage dps and commando dps can use the same mods (in BTL Gear)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 False. Very false. There is no "mixing" to optimize. There are datacron boosts and nothing else for the "off-stat". Main stat will always provide better gains. Tell that to my buddy who is hitting harder with his sharpshooter gunslinger AFTER he mixed aim and cunning mods / augments. Clearly he is hallucinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I always felt they had too many secondary stats to be honest. It does give players more flexibility in some cases, but it also create a lot of confusion in the process. All we have now is just enough info to get people worked up and create debate, discussion, an much opining (which is probably their actual intention ) Personally, for both the main and secondary stat changes they have revealed.. I'm going to take a wait and see on that before judging. We simply do not know enough details yet to do anything else. We wouldnt want people to use their brains, now would we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) We wouldnt want people to use their brains, now would we? Sorry to say, but some already do not use their brains in the current stats system. Keeping stats complicated, just to make people think, is not going to fix non-thinkers. Simplifying the stat system will not preclude the sans-brain crowd... but it will make their silliness less of an impact to those around them in many cases. Edited August 13, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 We wouldnt want people to use their brains, now would we? Accuracy should be done away with at the least. Having a mandatory secondary stat isn't brain engaging gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Tell that to my buddy who is hitting harder with his sharpshooter gunslinger AFTER he mixed aim and cunning mods / augments. Clearly he is hallucinating. I will say, it might be EXTREMELY small gains to be had. It does appear that a small amount of off-stat will ever so slightly improve your tech crit chance at no penalty to your tech bonus damage, but it does come at the expense of bonus healing, ranged damage, and ranged crit chance... in such a way that I am not 100% sure that the addition of aim to the 'slinger is the real culprit of the dps increase. Because you wouldn't hit "harder", you'd crit more often... and again, not by much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuuu Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) They are gone or will be come 4.0 crit/surge rating are merged and just called crit rating like the merge of crit/surge into one stat, but i not sure how i feel about mainstats going away Edited August 13, 2015 by Kyuuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monumenta Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I went through this with them yesterday. They won't listen. you were proved just as wrong yesterday as you are today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) you were proved just as wrong yesterday as you are today I'd hardly call it proof to repeatedly post "but I swear it works that way in the game". We all know that characters get some benefit from stats other than their class-main stat. No one would dispute that. What you'd need to prove, with actual numbers, say from parsing, is that the 2 benefits from X points of off-stat Y on class Z, give a greater end-result than the 6 benefits (IIRC) from X points of class Z's main stat. Edited August 13, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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