Bubble Stun

[Sudo]

^this. you can pick up a jugg in veng and do great in regs and not embarrass yourself in solos. ** snip ** I see juggs do stupid stuff 6 ways from sunday that would get any other class in the game murdered and they're just like, "oh. damn. better pop some CDs and eventually think about retreating." I'm not sorry. it's a fact: the self awareness to play juggs is virtually nil compared to any other AC in the game. and I'm not calling for a nerf. it's just what it is.

 

 

For the same reasons you've stopped playing your AP PT, is the same I've stopped playing my Veg Jug... I started the expansion late....figure'd i'd level up while pvping and was amazed at after a year of not playing this game and the 3.0 changes, how laughably easy it was to make myself look good in wzs.

 

And I'll always be the first person to admit I'm only an average pvper, as I am too casual to devote the time the tryhards do.

 

I'm having the most challenge with my Sent and My Merc right now, but the most fun with my Infiltration shadow...Low slash is so fun...

 

 

Back on topic.. I actually don't see bubble stun as often as I used to pre 3.0

Edited May 4, 2015 by Sudo

[Icykill_]

I think it may just be that are experiences differ is all. I don't mean to discount your experiences. I'll just relate mine. I find that the sorcs that are terrifying are the ones that are keeping themselves mobile and kiting. The really good ones are kiting savants. Sorcs have amazing kiting abilities. That tied with damage on the move, static barrier, and self heals makes it so barrier doesn't need to be used all that often...at least in regs. In arenas you do have to use barrier as people are generally better at focusing in ranked, which is why they have barrier. But, in my experience, they are no more helpless outside of barrier than a merc is outside of KO+energy shield. I have a much easier time staying alive outside of barrier on my sorc than I do on my merc without their cooldowns (which are pathetic).

 

This can be said of any class... If you are playing people who are "savants" on their class... They will be awesome players and will destroy most people unless those people are also savants

People say Maras aren't viable in pvp... But I have seen one or two that can dominate matches based on their skill lvl... Same goes for any class like Mercs, snipers and OPS...

Calling for Nerfs because you have issues with another class being OP in most situations means you are playing higher skilled people and you don't know how to count them

Of course there are times when class balancing is wrong and they do need a Nerf... This is apparent when nearly all of the community is letting the Devs know

But as you can tell from this thread, there is lots of advice on how to counter the issues both yourself and some others are having... This ability definitely does not need a nerf... I hate to say it, but this seems more a skill lvl on your part

[Lortemand]

yes the bubble stun suxxxx. i know from my operative(especially when playing concealment) and my sin.

but without the bubble these guys(including my sorc) would be free loot for operatives and sins.

not cool, but mind the meta....quite ok.

we can destroy them, even with bubble.

[Maegi]

I main a sorc and i hate bubble stun. Won't use it, hate people who do. On the other hand.... it's a great troll ability, so that makes me giggle a bit.... still.... F*ck you, stun bubble.

[Dacri]

buff bubble stun plz when I get leaped on that thing explodes and the juggernaut is not getting ccd?!?!? y do u do dis biowera bubble stun is suppose to protect me from de evil!!!!

[Saikochoro]

This can be said of any class... If you are playing people who are "savants" on their class... They will be awesome players and will destroy most people unless those people are also savants

People say Maras aren't viable in pvp... But I have seen one or two that can dominate matches based on their skill lvl... Same goes for any class like Mercs, snipers and OPS...

Calling for Nerfs because you have issues with another class being OP in most situations means you are playing higher skilled people and you don't know how to count them

Of course there are times when class balancing is wrong and they do need a Nerf... This is apparent when nearly all of the community is letting the Devs know

But as you can tell from this thread, there is lots of advice on how to counter the issues both yourself and some others are having... This ability definitely does not need a nerf... I hate to say it, but this seems more a skill lvl on your part

 

I did not say in my post that barrier needs nerfed. I said that sorcs are not helpless outside of barrier. Big difference. Though I do think bastion is a bit much with corrupted barrier....but that's a different topic. I was referring to sorc survivability outside of barrier. When I play my sorc most of my survivability comes from the fact that I can kite/LOS well. In the times when 2-3 people gank me in the match I will need barrier...and that is fine. But most of times I can get aways without having to waste barrier by rooting, knocking back, stunning, or speeding. This whole thread is on bubble stun anyway...not barrier. I personally don't really have much of a problem with bubble stun...its annoying, but so are other powers. The only REAL problem I have with sorcs is the amount of damage on the move lightning is capable of....and I have a problem with that for the same reason I have a problem with AP PT range....it throws off melee/ranged balance.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Saikochoro

[Icykill_]

I did not say in my post that barrier needs nerfed. I said that sorcs are not helpless outside of barrier. Big difference. Though I do think bastion is a bit much with corrupted barrier....but that's a different topic. I was referring to sorc survivability outside of barrier. When I play my sorc most of my survivability comes from the fact that I can kite/LOS well. In the times when 2-3 people gank me in the match I will need barrier...and that is fine. But most of times I can get aways without having to waste barrier by rooting, knocking back, stunning, or speeding. This whole thread is on bubble stun anyway...not barrier. I personally don't really have much of a problem with bubble stun...its annoying, but so are other powers. The only REAL problem I have with sorcs is the amount of damage on the move lightning is capable of....and I have a problem with that for the same reason I have a problem with AP PT range....it throws off melee/ranged balance.

 

I never mentioned barrier if you reread my post... And the OP was complaining about bubble stun, just another complaint by him about Sorcs because he can't play against them, always calling for a Sorc Nerf of some kind... So I'm not sure where you got force barrier from

You may or may not have played your Sorc lately, but they got a considerable nerf and isn't as mobile as it was... We now have to stop and cast during our rotation and it is no longer as bursty on the move... Any "good" player on a burst class that can't beat s Sorc Lightning Sorc who has force barrier on CD isn't trying enough... Juggs, PTs, Sins, Ops... Shouldn't have a problem... Maras. Meh... Still not mobile enough... Snipers... Same... Mercs... Not enough survivability in a drawn out engagement

But as I said in my previous post... If your playing against a "savant" Sorc... It won't matter... They will still win

I'm also unsure what you mean about PTs..??... Do you mean playing against them or playing the class yourself??

Edited May 6, 2015 by Icykill_

[Fellow-Canadian]

I never mentioned barrier if you reread my post... And the OP was complaining about bubble stun, just another complaint by him about Sorcs because he can't play against them, always calling for a Sorc Nerf of some kind... So I'm not sure where you got force barrier from

You may or may not have played your Sorc lately, but they got a considerable nerf and isn't as mobile as it was... We now have to stop and cast during our rotation and it is no longer as bursty on the move... Any "good" player on a burst class that can't beat s Sorc Lightning Sorc who has force barrier on CD isn't trying enough... Juggs, PTs, Sins, Ops... Shouldn't have a problem... Maras. Meh... Still not mobile enough... Snipers... Same... Mercs... Not enough survivability in a drawn out engagement

But as I said in my previous post... If your playing against a "savant" Sorc... It won't matter... They will still win

I'm also unsure what you mean about PTs..??... Do you mean playing against them or playing the class yourself??

 

He isn't wrong though. Sorcs have the best mobile tools in the game. No class even comes close to their kiting power.

[Icykill_]

He isn't wrong though. Sorcs have the best mobile tools in the game. No class even comes close to their kiting power.

 

That I agree on...

[MusicRider]

That's a new one. Has bubble stun be reverted back to when the effect was applicable also when you bubbled an ally?

[Zoom_VI]

but without the bubble these guys(including my sorc) would be free loot for operatives and sins.

not cool, but mind the meta....quite ok.

All this means is that the role bubble stun fills is justified. It does not mean that the actual way bubble stun is implemented is justified. Bubble stun can and should be replaced with a new mechanic. Perferably one that doesn't instantly piss off everyone in the vicinity of the sorc.

 

don't get me wrong. I hate what they've done with AP. I stopped playing it (was my main since launch). but it's a very extreme class now. kind of the way concealment used to be: heavy as all get out dps but you get cut to pieces without very precise awareness. juggs much easier.

 

I think you will find many who mained Vanguards pre 3.0 hate what they did to the class in 3.0. Current Vanguard is a pathetic shadow of it's former self. Current VG is a one trick pony, sure it's a good trick, but it's still a one trick pony. The awesome power of old AP's cleave? Gone. Old Pyrotech's considerable single target pressure? Gone. Old Pyro's focus fire survivability? Gone. The only thing vanguards have left anymore is the burst.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[AxeDragoneth]

I think you will find many who mained Vanguards pre 3.0 hate what they did to the class in 3.0. Current Vanguard is a pathetic shadow of it's former self. Current VG is a one trick pony, sure it's a good trick, but it's still a one trick pony. The awesome power of old AP's cleave? Gone. Old Pyrotech's considerable single target pressure? Gone. Old Pyro's focus fire survivability? Gone. The only thing vanguards have left anymore is the burst.

 

RIP Pyrotech.

Edited May 6, 2015 by AxeDragoneth

[Raansu]

All this means is that the role bubble stun fills is justified. It does not mean that the actual way bubble stun is implemented is justified. Bubble stun can and should be replaced with a new mechanic. Perferably one that doesn't instantly piss off everyone in the vicinity of the sorc.

 

 

 

I think you will find many who mained Vanguards pre 3.0 hate what they did to the class in 3.0. Current Vanguard is a pathetic shadow of it's former self. Current VG is a one trick pony, sure it's a good trick, but it's still a one trick pony. The awesome power of old AP's cleave? Gone. Old Pyrotech's considerable single target pressure? Gone. Old Pyro's focus fire survivability? Gone. The only thing vanguards have left anymore is the burst.

 

I still don't understand why they swapped the specs to begin with. I hate the new energy thing. I guess it works with vg, but with pt it looks out of place. I miss using flame burst lol. I also miss the dots. Switching 5he specs made no sense at all.

 

Also on topic bubble stun is still dumb. They needed it back in the day but now it's just annoying considering everything else they get now.

[MusicRider]

Ah I see, certainly a new one here. I am afraid this is a classic case of getting used to breaking it outside its effect area, something which is as trivial as it gets. In any case who really takes bubble stun nowadays with the new cc immunities added to melee.

[Saikochoro]

Ah I see, certainly a new one here. I am afraid this is a classic case of getting used to breaking it outside its effect area, something which is as trivial as it gets. In any case who really takes bubble stun nowadays with the new cc immunities added to melee.

 

I think the CC immunity is way more annoying than bubble stun.

[Saikochoro]

I never mentioned barrier if you reread my post... And the OP was complaining about bubble stun, just another complaint by him about Sorcs because he can't play against them, always calling for a Sorc Nerf of some kind... So I'm not sure where you got force barrier from

You may or may not have played your Sorc lately, but they got a considerable nerf and isn't as mobile as it was... We now have to stop and cast during our rotation and it is no longer as bursty on the move... Any "good" player on a burst class that can't beat s Sorc Lightning Sorc who has force barrier on CD isn't trying enough... Juggs, PTs, Sins, Ops... Shouldn't have a problem... Maras. Meh... Still not mobile enough... Snipers... Same... Mercs... Not enough survivability in a drawn out engagement

But as I said in my previous post... If your playing against a "savant" Sorc... It won't matter... They will still win

I'm also unsure what you mean about PTs..??... Do you mean playing against them or playing the class yourself??

 

Someone brought barrier into the thread and I responded to him and then you responded to me....so it was just a matter of assumption is all. Either way I don't even think bubble stun is game breaking. LIghtning sorcs are still very mobile....the only mobility nerf they really got was lightning flash cooldown being increased. It did bring it down some. The single target damage nerfs were stupid....I don't know why they went through with those. I do have to argue that sorcs have more than enough capability to kite most classes. If they aren't giving melee a hard time catching them then they aren't trying hard enough. We will just have to agree to disagree on that point.

 

As far as AP PTs....I think they are stupid for the same reason I think lightning sorcs are stupid....even though I play and enjoy both. AP PTs basically have all the advantages of both range and melee in that can do almost all their damage from 15-30m and its all instant cast. Lightning sorcs had most of the advantages of both in that they had the long range and most of their damage could be done on the move/instant. It throw off melee/range balance. Melee should be melee....having a weak filler attack at 30m is fine, but having several fairly hard hitting attacks at 15-30 is pretty stupid on a melee. Ranged should have high damage ranged attacks, but should cast most of the time....having some instant cast abilities is fine, but being able to do the majority of the damage on the move is stupid. I know mercs are weaker than sorcs, but I also think they are too mobile. I also thought hatred sins had too much range, but that got nerfed. If snipe was actually used in normal rotation for operatives....then that would be too much....honestly they can get rid of it for ops for all I care. I just think bioware is digging themselves into a hole by throwing traditional balancing aspects between melee/range out the window. It leads to the arms race and cc immunity crap.

[foxmob]

Ah I see, certainly a new one here. I am afraid this is a classic case of getting used to breaking it outside its effect area, something which is as trivial as it gets. In any case who really takes bubble stun nowadays with the new cc immunities added to melee.

 

i haven't noticed bubble-stun since the days when it was broken and everyone in the raid had it. that was a time when I still played around on my sin and scrapper. these days, the only "melee" I play is a jugg and (*chuckle*) PT. neither of those are affected by bubble stuns because the jugg is almost always immune at the time the bubble bursts and the PT will have easily broken the bubble before he comes in range of it.

 

however, I don't understand how scrapper/concealment can stand bubble. unless something very fundamental has changed, that spec is designed (from the ground up) to open in melee from stealth and to open "big." that's going to result in an instant mezz every time. iunno. I don't see ops complain about it, but it looks pretty broken to me from the scrapper perspective. sins don't need to open from stealth and have one or two solid 10m instants, so I see your point from that perspective. I just don't get it from the scrapper perspective.

 

don't get me wrong, I don't think the scrapper should be able to blow up the sorc. I just don't think there's any counterplay at all in this situation, and as a scrapper, I'd have to NEVER bother opening on a sorc. seems kinda silly. but this is far from a priority balance issue, imo.

[foxmob]

I just think bioware is digging themselves into a hole by throwing traditional balancing aspects between melee/range out the window. It leads to the arms race and cc immunity crap.

well said.

 

it started with uninterruptable masterstrike (of all things!). nowadays, almost every channel is uninterruptable OR can be channeled while moving. I mean...really? that's like the opposite of what a channel is all about.

Edited May 6, 2015 by foxmob

[Saikochoro]

i haven't noticed bubble-stun since the days when it was broken and everyone in the raid had it. that was a time when I still played around on my sin and scrapper. these days, the only "melee" I play is a jugg and (*chuckle*) PT. neither of those are affected by bubble stuns because the jugg is almost always immune at the time the bubble bursts and the PT will have easily broken the bubble before he comes in range of it.

 

however, I don't understand how scrapper/concealment can stand bubble. unless something very fundamental has changed, that spec is designed (from the ground up) to open in melee from stealth and to open "big." that's going to result in an instant mezz every time. iunno. I don't see ops complain about it, but it looks pretty broken to me from the scrapper perspective. sins don't need to open from stealth and have one or two solid 10m instants, so I see your point from that perspective. I just don't get it from the scrapper perspective.

 

don't get me wrong, I don't think the scrapper should be able to blow up the sorc. I just don't think there's any counterplay at all in this situation, and as a scrapper, I'd have to NEVER bother opening on a sorc. seems kinda silly. but this is far from a priority balance issue, imo.

 

 

It is annoying as a scrapper, but I understand its function. I think its a little more annoying that they have it with how much mobility they have....but bubble stun isn't what needs fixed....its the mobility. It does prevent scrappers opener, which is quite annoying. I can't tell which ones have it and which ones don't so most of the time I will just open on one. If it doesn't mez me, then I'm free to continue like normal. If it does, then I change my tactics for that sorc. Usually I will then open with volatile and then stand back and throw frag grenade and rifle shot at them till their bubble pops. Then go in with veiled strike and back stab. It's annoying, but there is a work around. Again....I really think mobility is the issue not bubble stun.

[Zoom_VI]

I still don't understand why they swapped the specs to begin with. I hate the new energy thing. I guess it works with vg, but with pt it looks out of place. I miss using flame burst lol. I also miss the dots. Switching 5he specs made no sense at all.

 

Actually I know exactly why they did, heck I actually advocated such a swap a few times in the 2.x patch cycle. However I didn't anticipate how much they botched the swap, at least from a QoL and gameplay perspective.

 

Basically it is blatantly obvious that old Pyrotech was never intended as a burst class, and it's rather obvious that old AP was supposed to be the goto PvP spec for pre-3.0 Vanguards. Look at the old trees. Stun DR, passive speed increase, Harpoon CD reduction, HTL (pre 2.0), interrupt cd reduction. There where all in old Tactics. Old Pyro had both dots (which the devs have shown is the only way they know how to do a sustained spec) and a total lack of PvP-oriented talent boxes. Old Vanguard was basically a complete mistake as far as the devs where concerned, and they spent most of the 1.x and 2.x changes to VGs trying to rectify the pre-launch dev's mistake. Unfortunately rather than accepting Pyro as the burst spec and working around that, they continued to adhere to the idea of Pyro being a sustained spec and took the opportunity presented by 3.0 to fix their mistake.

 

heck I would not be the tiniest bit surprised to learn that the whole reason thermal detonator has a time delay is because the pre-launch devs (of which very few had prior mmo development experience) honestly though that having a delay would make it a "sustained" mechanic, rather than augmenting its burst.

 

I would say that the dev's changes to vanguards are from a game design standpoint completely and utterly valid. However has someone who actually plays the class, I find the 3.0 VG changes gutted much of what used to make the spec fun.

[Saikochoro]

well said.

 

it started with uninterruptable masterstrike (of all things!). nowadays, almost every channel is uninterruptable OR can be channeled while moving. I mean...really? that's like the opposite of what a channel is all about.

 

Yeah and then making ravage root available to vengeance juggs. Between ravage root and unstoppable it was pretty hard to counter it. If they only had one or the other it might not have led to the arms race. Now there are melee zipping around every where...melee having a 15-30m rotation....ranged doing a crap ton of damage on the move....cc immunity handed out like candy. It's sickening.