Rovemo Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Are there any plans to make mid bracket pvp more fun? As it stand now its too predictable in that the team with the most high level players usually wins. These wins if the level gaps are too extreme usually end in a complete faceroll scenerio. I suggest a system in which players are over-bolstered the lower level they are. For example a level 30 player will have higher overall stats when compared to a level 59 player. Admittedly this seems complicated to balance properly, but it doesnt really need to be done so the level 30 player can beat the 59, just to where they give them a more decent fight. This could increase the overall fun of mid bracket pvp because it would give both sides (higher level and lower level teams) more of a inherent challenge to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedImage Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I have a blast in mids. Keeping things in persepective, lvl 30'ish players are competitive and able to create many useful opportunities in mids....if you know how to play the class. I'm not saying you need to L2P. But consider other ways of being useful when you don't have your optimum toolset in tow. Mids can be more fun than 60 pvp sometimes....for me, anyways. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovemo Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'm not suggesting it isn't fun, its just too predictable. I know when I look at my team and not one person is over level 50, then look at the opposing team and half are over level 55, we are most likely going to lose. When teams are more evenly matched by level, much fun ensues and games get pretty close and unpredictable. But having one team at max or near max level and the other and entry or near entry level is a predictable outcome. Although I do like seeing the rare occurrence of a mismatched game being won by the lower level team, it doesn't really offset the annoyance of the 9 times out of 10 predicted outcome. Just seems it could be made more fun with a few tweaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 They have acknowledged that lowbie bolster is not working correctly and are attempting to fix it with 3.2. We'll see how that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedImage Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Just seems it could be made more fun with a few tweaks. Few = "none" to BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KumbayaGOD Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 they will fix mid bracket on 28 april on patch 3.2 regarding bolster issue, so meanwhile we need to deal with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanor Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 They have acknowledged that lowbie bolster is not working correctly and are attempting to fix it with 3.2. We'll see how that goes. Better go well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Still the best reg bracket. You have most (many) of your abilties and you can pug without getting matched against a power-made in every game. It's also less frustrating to play from a gear-perspective, I don't care what people use in midbie but it annoys the hell out of me to see people roll in with their pve end-game gear at 60 (especially on PvP servers, those people should transfer to PvE servers since that's obviously what they prioritize.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Better go well. lol yeah, who wouldn't feel completely secure and comfortable with BW promising to fix something regarding Bolster! What could possibly go wrong!? On the other hand i wouldn't mind a few more weeks of Naked Bolster PvP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimRita Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Mids is broken right now, thanks to Biowares inability to listen to early feedback. However, they claim to be fixing bolster when 3.2 arrives, leaving it broken for 6 months (how nice of them). FYI - Bolster has NEVER worked in all its shapes and/or forms, so don't hold your breath and expect another trademark Bioware **** up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Mids is broken right now, thanks to Biowares inability to listen to early feedback. However, they claim to be fixing bolster when 3.2 arrives, leaving it broken for 6 months (how nice of them). FYI - Bolster has NEVER worked in all its shapes and/or forms, so don't hold your breath and expect another trademark Bioware **** up. Bolster worked pretty well near the end of the 2.0 cycle. When they fixed the blue mod bug and made white damage do the proper amount of damage bolster was quite good at that point. How they manage to keep screwing up the formula is beyond me though. Edited April 20, 2015 by Raansu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Are there any plans to make mid bracket pvp more fun? As it stand now its too predictable in that the team with the most high level players usually wins. These wins if the level gaps are too extreme usually end in a complete faceroll scenerio. I suggest a system in which players are over-bolstered the lower level they are. For example a level 30 player will have higher overall stats when compared to a level 59 player. Admittedly this seems complicated to balance properly, but it doesnt really need to be done so the level 30 player can beat the 59, just to where they give them a more decent fight. This could increase the overall fun of mid bracket pvp because it would give both sides (higher level and lower level teams) more of a inherent challenge to win. I can already beat some lvl 55-59 players on toons I have lvl'd from 30-50... But know less experienced players are struggling when mids is supposed to be the learning bracket, not the farming bracket Alex did mention a few weeks back in the Dev section that they acknowledge the bolster system needs to be tweaked to account for the extra stats lvl 55-59s get from lvling up (they never took that into account) He also explained that they won't be splitting the bracket and why But that they are working on adjusting bolster to make it more even Of course a lot of higher lvls will be better than lower lvls, but the same can be said about a lot of lower lvls being better skilled than upper lvls... Once they adjust bolster, the bracket won't be "much" different to the old 30-54 bracket... Of course at lvl 55 and 57 you get what I would call end game abilities, giving them an advantage... But they will only be in the bracket for a little while after they get them and there should be a better mix of lvls once the adjustments are done, which will water down the 55-59 stacked teams I've asked Alex for an update and time frame in the PTS forum... Just waiting for a reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I messed around on my Sage this past weekend in PVP on PoT5 to enjoy the double XP. Started out at level 39 and got to level 41 over the course of a dozen matches or so. But it was far from fun. The last match I was in, all but one of the Imp opposing team players was 55 or higher. My team consisted of two players in the 55+ bracket. Everyone else was between 30 - 49. It was a slaughter. Not even close. You get two of those level 55+ players on you and you were dead before you could even have time to defend. And hitting them was like swatting at flies. If it wasn't for the huge XP I was getting, I doubt I would have even done a handful of matches. How many kills did my team end up with? On average about 3 per player. Their team averaged about 30 per player. I understand why we can't do more brackets. Hell, the Repub matches I was in barely could field full teams. Some matches started out with us 6 v 8 or 7 v 8 and we picked up some more people as the event went on. But still, if you can't give the lower end players a fighting chance, then why even give them this? All you are doing is making for a very miserable play experience that only equals to fewer subscriptions down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madtycoon Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 This is really tricky. I mean even after the next patch where they are going to be fixing bolster for low levels. The 30-59 bracket is probably a new player's first experience with PvP and yeah it's horrible. Will continue to be horrible and I really have no idea how they could fix it. 29 levels of difference and all those abilities, so hard to make it semi-fun, especially for the new player. I literally can't even level my 55 toons in pvp, because it's just not fair. I feel like complete scum. Wish the game had more players and cross-server (obviously). Then they could just make another bracket. As it stands now, I can almost guarantee you that it is turning new players away from PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 This is really tricky. I mean even after the next patch where they are going to be fixing bolster for low levels. The 30-59 bracket is probably a new player's first experience with PvP and yeah it's horrible. Will continue to be horrible and I really have no idea how they could fix it. 29 levels of difference and all those abilities, so hard to make it semi-fun, especially for the new player. I literally can't even level my 55 toons in pvp, because it's just not fair. I feel like complete scum. Wish the game had more players and cross-server (obviously). Then they could just make another bracket. As it stands now, I can almost guarantee you that it is turning new players away from PvP. Even not taking the abilities in consideration, you have a huge difference in gear. The HP difference alone between someone who is level 30 and someone who is 55+ makes you wonder why anybody in the dev team even thought this was a good idea. But I can't tell how many tweeks there are on the servers. People who spent quite a bit of time earning the older level 55 pvp gear only not to purchase the upgrade so that they would forever be part of this mid bracket. it takes a special type of person to take pleasure in mopping the floor with someone who doesn't even have a chance. It would be like a 6th grading beating up on some poor kid in 1st grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovemo Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 it doesn't seem like bolster is the main problem with the lower brackets. The main problem is how toons get stronger the higher they level. A level 51 scoundrel is stronger than a level 50 scoundrel simply cause of roll. So a 51 is much stronger than a 30. For elite players this disadvantage can be a welcomed challenge to overcome, but for most of us average players the disadvantage can take away fun. Games should be fun. A fair fight is fun. The skill difference required to offset the inherent power difference between such extreme levels isn't common. So even though bolster isn't the main problem, it could be the main solution by giving lower level players more stats or something to offset the power gained through discipline lines and ability obtainment. With this in play and finely tuned a level 10 player could give a level 59 player a fun fight considering they are of similar skill level. Nothing can offset players skill level and a highly skilled player can currently beat lower skilled players even though they are lower toon level. But when two average players go at it, toon level current determines the outcome 9 times out 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The HP difference alone between someone who is level 30 and someone who is 55+ makes you wonder why anybody in the dev team even thought this was a good idea. This is getting fixed in 3.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 This is getting fixed in 3.2. hehe *gulp* get your ship mods ready! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I recently started leveling a new Sorc and got in to the 30-59 bracket I have to say that experience could be quite jarring for a new player. As an experienced player (also experienced with the class as I have a Sage too) I know that bolster is broken, I know that I'm missing some very key utilities/skills and that things will even out eventually. However if I were on my first toon or was trying PvP out for the first time it would be a very jarring experience indeed. I'm taking 6-9k damage on average form most other players while hitting for about 3-4 maybe 5k if I'm lucky against them. In arenas I'm piled on immediately (not hating on it, it's a totally valid strat) and easily killed in the space of one stun. Without CD's or at least a little help I'm dead within in 3-4 GCD's. Hopefully BW fixes this mess because it is very likely adversly affecting PvP in end game brackets as well in more than one way: - People just get frustrated and quit PvP or the game entirely. Speaks for itself. - They stop PvPing until they get to 50+ or 60 and lose out on a ton of valuable experience. This results in people learning to PvP in the 60 bracket which is just a terrible place to start learning - The people who are playing at 45+ are able to get away with a lot of mistakes against lower level toons. There were a lot of 1v1's/2v1's I would have easily won if I had been a higher level due to sloppy play by the other players. I would imagine plenty of people have developed bad habits form winning these easy match ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I was running midbies for a while, getting the pugs with 30’s against the pugs of 50’ies; even pugs, the 50’s on my side pugs. When nobody is paying attention to a character in his or her 30’ies, b/c there are plenty of 50+s nearby, you can sort of sneak in, find a lower level targets or focus along, do some damage, get killing blows, taunt and stuff and it feels not bad at all. When most of the team is 30’ies against mostly 55+s, it is devastating. It’s much like getting mostly 186-geared on your team vs mostly DR on the other team on L60. I do not argue that inexperience plays a huge role – in my case it always does! I go into midbies to learn to play under pressure. I get that. I never expect to win, only to play. But the lack of oomph, the own fragility and the lack of the cc’s and cc resistances/reductions are quite crippling. As soon as my character is cc’d, it is dead. I can do damage on the 30-40’ies, but 55+ has no troubles 2-3 shotting my character solo. Folks seem to try to play midbies the way they played lowbies and the way they’d play 60’ies. You have to keep in a group, focus like a clockwork, have to answer calls immediately (assume the guard won’t last), you can’t break cc’s, you can’t be uncoordinated; you absolutely can’t leave your healer to fend for itself. Those are cardinal sins on any level, but in the midbies, those will make a difference between a 3:0 and 2:1 loss. And a 2:1 loss is likely the best possible outcome with 5+ 30’ies against 5+ 55’s. To be honest, the only feasible solution that is readily apparent if you would want to close the gap, is to calculate an average player level, and underpopulate the higher level group deliberately when that average level difference of the two pugs is 15+ levels, let alone 20. However, with the 12xXP perk... I think we'll likely see people just level to 52, and then earn the comms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 They have acknowledged that lowbie bolster is not working correctly and are attempting to fix it with 3.2. We'll see how that goes. I haven't seen anywhere that it will be implemented in 3.2... What is your source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I haven't seen anywhere that it will be implemented in 3.2... What is your source? Read the dev tracker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Read the dev tracker.... Thank, I must of missed that post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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