12 x XP for class-missions

[Grayseven]

They've stated as much many times in the various support posts. Sometimes they'll start with, 'I just want the story lines in order without a pause or interruption..." But a few posts in inevitably they start admitting they just don't want to have to do the 'grind' despite the fact SWTOR is already incredibly non-grindy for an MMO.

 

I'll live with this, but my expectations are set very low for any benefit coming from this. My expectations instead is this will make things much worse overall.

 

Low level players are going to have a hard time finding players to do non-storyline content with.

High level players are going to have a flooded 'market' of FOTM's and crap players making getting through the difficult content more difficult.

We'll see brief blip in subs, but then we'll see a much more radical downturn in sub numbers once the number of peole who have seen all the class story lines has inceased.

We'll see an increase in the number of players complaining about lack of content.

We'll see players whining for more 'QoL' changes/additions to get more free stuff/easy mode play, further deepening the downward spiral.

 

I could be wrong, I'll be happy to be wrong, but my deduction is we're witnessing the end of SWTOR.

 

As a 'cartel whale' myself, I know this is going to be bad for them as I am less inclined to spend what sort of money I have been spending to acquire cartel goods I think may have a significantly shorter lifespan.

 

As a game ages, players at the lower levels begin to find it difficult to group for anything. WoW realized this which is why they instituted cross-server zones at low levels to ensure there are enough people to group with.

 

SWTOR isn't big enough for that, nor are they getting a lot of new players in. The ones they do get are F2P which will not have access to the 12x XP. Subscribers tend to be long term players, many of which have a number of alts and who have grown bored with the leveling grind.

 

For a long term player looking to level an alt without going through the boredom of side and planetary quests, the only option is grinding KDY over and over...which becomes boring itself rather quickly.

 

12x XP isn't a panacea. Personally, I'd like to see it optional (meaning we can turn it off if we want) and only available to players who already have a toon to level 55.

 

But it isn't the end of the world. No one needs to do endless grind quests to learn to play. If you can't figure out your class through the story line quests you'll never figure it out. Getting more players to end game means more bodies for the queues for GF and PvP.

 

I don't think things will get better or worse but rather will stay the same as it has been...albeit with a few more alts available at end game. If we are lucky, more players will switch from F2P to sub in order to take advantage of the 12x XP and won't want to go back to the F2P restrictions.

[Ratajack]

As I said, I would accept the decision either way.

 

I do expect to see these forums full of demands for free gear for leveling, 12x credits, etc, by no later than May 5. I fully expect t hose demands to start showing up on these forums even before that, though. 12XP has only just been confirmed as returning and already in game chat is full of demands for 12X credits, free auto scaling for leveling and other demands.

 

So much for the claims made by those demanding 12XP that people would not be making those demands for free gear or extra credits, I guess.

 

8x Commendations per Story Quest is a thing we're almost certainly getting in 3.2.

 

God, you're a real Debbie Downer, aren't you?

 

It took less than 24 hours before I saw the first thread demanding more cookies.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8146590#post8146590

 

I expect that will be just the first of many.

[Grayseven]

It took less than 24 hours before I saw the first thread demanding more cookies.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8146590#post8146590

 

I expect that will be just the first of many.

 

Players will constantly want more, regardless of what is given. It doesn't mean they will get it.

[Ratajack]

Players will constantly want more, regardless of what is given. It doesn't mean they will get it.

 

Do you mean like demanding permanent 12XP after they got a GIFT of a limited time promo?

 

I know the mice are never satisfied and will always demand that next cookie.

[TUXs]

Do you mean like demanding permanent 12XP after they got a GIFT of a limited time promo?

 

I know the mice are never satisfied and will always demand that next cookie.

Yeah, it's silly of Bioware to capitalize on a successful perk huh? They're a business Rat...they'll sell us anything.

[EnkiduNineEight]

As a game ages, players at the lower levels begin to find it difficult to group for anything. WoW realized this which is why they instituted cross-server zones at low levels to ensure there are enough people to group with.

 

SWTOR isn't big enough for that, nor are they getting a lot of new players in. The ones they do get are F2P which will not have access to the 12x XP. Subscribers tend to be long term players, many of which have a number of alts and who have grown bored with the leveling grind.

 

For a long term player looking to level an alt without going through the boredom of side and planetary quests, the only option is grinding KDY over and over...which becomes boring itself rather quickly.

 

12x XP isn't a panacea. Personally, I'd like to see it optional (meaning we can turn it off if we want) and only available to players who already have a toon to level 55.

 

But it isn't the end of the world. No one needs to do endless grind quests to learn to play. If you can't figure out your class through the story line quests you'll never figure it out. Getting more players to end game means more bodies for the queues for GF and PvP.

 

I don't think things will get better or worse but rather will stay the same as it has been...albeit with a few more alts available at end game. If we are lucky, more players will switch from F2P to sub in order to take advantage of the 12x XP and won't want to go back to the F2P restrictions.

 

I've been playing MMORPG's since 1989 (before graphics, DIKU, LP etc) and have been involved in developing them as well. I'm well aware what maturity does for a game.

 

Creating systems that _diminish_ available players at those low levels is bad. 12x EXP will diminish the available pool of low level players for the additional content beyond the story missions. So an already sparse population has just been made smaller by design.

 

This is a bad thing.

 

The number of subscribers who had been sticking around _without_ 12x was relatively stable. So 12x wasn;t necessary to keep them on board. Yes, there are a few who posted 'I'll QUIT if I don't get 12x!' but as a portion of the entire population I would be willing to wager these were smaller.

 

So it was a change made that was likely unnecessary to maintain current subs.

 

It may generate an increase in subs. This will be a short term boon for their cash flow. f2p and preferred accounts my convert to Subs but as they weren't subs before they are likely not to remain subs for a significant amount of time. They'll likely locust the 'content' and then convert back to preferred.

 

So they'll get a single quarter or two of increase subs with a further decline.

 

The problem at the root, making the game attractive to new players, will remain and will likely be made worse because new players will likely either sub for the 12x and then not really get why everything is so easy and boring or they'll realize that they are advancing through quickly, turn off the 12x, realize there is no one to play with and turn it back on, and just chew through the limited content so they can reach an end game with even more limited content... and my even more limited content I mean the end game's content is much more limited, not that there is more of it.

 

In the end, this is indicating they are giving up on really attracting new players. That is, in my opinion, a bad sign.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I will be very upset if this is not optional. My reasoning is that my wife recently started playing, but doesn't play frequently enough to justify a sub. I've already spent a lot of CCs to unlock most of the BS unlocks to make her account close enough to subscriber anyway for her rights. I want to be able to play with her without making the content not fun for us by me being 5-7 levels above her all the time....

 

Don't get me wrong if there's an optional I'll use the heck out of 12 x XP on the servers she doesn't play on but it's not fair that this would break the ability to play with friends/family that are only F2P.

[EllieAnne]

Creating systems that _diminish_ available players at those low levels is bad. 12x EXP will diminish the available pool of low level players for the additional content beyond the story missions. So an already sparse population has just been made smaller by design.

 

This is a bad thing.

 

True but ...

what most of you anti12ers don't mention is the that there is very little incentive to level alts. No race missions and only minor differences if you are light/dark/neutral. So what would you propose to encourage players to make alts and run low-level flashpoints?

[EnkiduNineEight]

True but ...

what most of you anti12ers don't mention is the that there is very little incentive to level alts. No race missions and only minor differences if you are light/dark/neutral. So what would you propose to encourage players to make alts and run low-level flashpoints?

 

Well, alts were already encouraged. I would wager you find more alts in this game, per player, on average, than any other major MMORPG. The storylines themselves and the general ease of leveling that exists in this game compared to prior-gen MMO's was part of that.

 

On top of that, it might not be a bad idea to continue to add low level content as time progresses. Even creating a racial storyline with 1-2 quests per planet. Making Neutral faction an option (it is at level 50+ where you lose the lightside/darkside relics) from level 1, having quests open up based on your force 'faction' etc.. all not bad ideas.

 

Mentoring/sidekick system that makes it easier for high level players to play with low level players without trivializing the game.

 

Consider adding attribute bonuses etc on par with level appropriate datacron rewards fro completing planetary heroic quests (all of them) or Bonus Quest Series for a planet. Encouraging people to play these quests but gate the quests for level appropriate only (Especially if you implement a mentoring system/sidekick system.. so old players will go to old planets to help new players through content for bonuses)

 

Level gated world pvp regions (where appropriate per planet.. starter planets its just a level gated zone) with additional quests that also return crafting rewards/enhanced crafting gathering (blues and purples not just greens)

 

Make the current attribute buffs have two parts (one for each advance class) so that you have to get to the level where your buff is shared by all your characters on one of each advanced class. (alternatively, combine this with the suggestion two prior... so as you complete planetary quests while level appropriate you get a bonus _per character_ not per Legacy to your buffs.

 

Increase the amount of exp required to raise your Social Ranks, but make it a pool that exists across all of our characters. Perhaps the previously mentioned Racial and Force faction type quests could be 'Social' quests and have them level gated so that you can only perform them at the appropriate level or level reduced via a mentoring system. Providing experience for social ranks. Make Social Ranks have rewards like Legacy Ranks, but instead its emotes, dances, moods, etc.

 

Maybe 'iconic' gear sets (even perhaps legacy gear sets) that only drop if you are level appropriate, with these sets being completed as you advance through the first few planets.

 

Just a bunch thrown out willy nilly and that are not too thought out. I am certain there would be problems with some of these ideas that would have to be addressed.

 

The important thing is that the social hubs shouldn't be the fleets but the starter areas. So that players come into the world that is far more active to start. Mae reasons for players to be in the social hubs. EG, presently crafting can be done anywhere but when the implements required for crafting are in a more centralized location it becomes a crafting hub.

 

Crafting as a whole needs to be fleshed out better personally. As it is, I doubt that will ever happen though as its more advantageous for EA/Bioware to leverage the cartel market for new goods. If I had my way you would go to players for unique looks of gear etc.

 

Trick is to make desirable content and then gate it behind a level limitation while making It desirable but not essential and providing means for players who have already eclipsed the level to experience it as well.

 

I'm sure there are others as well.

[ekwalizer]

True but ...

what most of you anti12ers don't mention is the that there is very little incentive to level alts. No race missions and only minor differences if you are light/dark/neutral. So what would you propose to encourage players to make alts and run low-level flashpoints?

 

Uhm, seeing all eight stories? Base XP didn't stop me from doing this, why should it have stopped anyone else?

[Djiini]

Uhm, seeing all eight stories? Base XP didn't stop me from doing this, why should it have stopped anyone else?

 

Oh well, we're getting it, so why is there still a discussion?

[ekwalizer]

Oh well, we're getting it, so why is there still a discussion?

 

Getting it and it being a good idea/feature are entirely different matters.

[Djiini]

Getting it and it being a good idea/feature are entirely different matters.

 

Just seems like spinning your wheels unnecessarily, you know?

[ekwalizer]

Just seems like spinning your wheels unnecessarily, you know?

 

You're not wrong.

[EllieAnne]

Uhm, seeing all eight stories? Base XP didn't stop me from doing this, why should it have stopped anyone else?

 

Because the discussion has centered around leveling alts AFTER doing multiple story lines. So OK I have my 8 toons from each class. Give me a reason to roll an ninth.

[MillionsKNives]

Uhm, seeing all eight stories? Base XP didn't stop me from doing this, why should it have stopped anyone else?

 

Because not everyone likes running all of the other requisite missions which have nothing to do with the class story over and over again. The fun part is the class mission, not the side missions I've done too many times already.

[branmakmuffin]

Oh well, we're getting it, so why is there still a discussion?

Partly because you post asking "Why is there still a discussion?"

[Atalantia]

Uhm, seeing all eight stories? Base XP didn't stop me from doing this, why should it have stopped anyone else?

 

I was discouraged from seeing all eight stories with Base XP, I did the republic one to around 19-25 found them boring as watching cement dry. With 12x Xp who knows I may suffer through chapter 1 on the Pub and actually see if they are as boring through all 3 chapters

 

And the suggestion in your signature, IMHO fails as to increase my XP gain I HAVE TO PLAY SOMETHING I DONT ENJOY Republic side no thank you on that suggestion

Edited April 23, 2015 by Atalantia

[FerkWork]

I can't wait for (hah pun) May 4th. Then I can celebrate by leveling then drink Magaritas the next day with sweet 12x XP.

 

Sniper and Merc here I come

[branmakmuffin]

I can't wait for (hah pun) May 4th. Then I can celebrate by leveling then drink Magaritas the next day with sweet 12x XP.

Good idea on the order of things. If you drink the margaritas first, you won't do so wall on the leveling.

[EllieAnne]

I'm going to hijack the thread for a second. There has been a lot of back and forth about 12xXP and I think we can all agree that the two sides are either "NO 12xXP!!!!" and "Let's have a rational optional system where a person needs to level at least 4 mirror classes to at least the end of Corellia" or even more restrictive requirements.

 

So now we get a 12xXP for May 4th that is open for all subs with no recommendations we've made. So the questions are:

1) Have the devs even read this thread?

2) Do they care what we think?

3) Wouldn't May 4th be a good time to test out some of our suggestions or do they just don't want to change code at this point?

Edited April 24, 2015 by EllieAnne

[TUXs]

I'm going to hijack the thread for a second. There has been a lot of back and forth about 12xXP and I think we can all agree that the two sides are either "NO 12xXP!!!!" and "Let's have a rational optional system where a person needs to level at least 4 mirror classes to at least the end of Corellia" or even more restrictive requirements.

 

So now we get a 12xXP for May 4th that is open for all subs with no recommendations we've made. So the questions are:

1) Have the devs even read this thread?

2) Do they care what we think?

3) Wouldn't May 4th be a good time to test out some of our suggestions or do they just don't want to change code at this point?

They don't care what you think on this topic at all, they know players liked it and that's their biggest concern.

[jrwellworth]

Also not all of us were for gating it. You make the argument seem black and white, and it wasn't. BW did the smart thing, 12x xp with an opt out module. That gives the max number of people the option for the bonus.

[DarthDymond]

I think we can all agree that the two sides are either "NO 12xXP!!!!" and "Let's have a rational optional system where a person needs to level at least 4 mirror classes to at least the end of Corellia" or even more restrictive requirements.

Um, no.

 

Plenty of people are of the opinion that making it an across-the-board perk for subscribers is good.

Others stated that it would have been fine as a CM purchase (with no restrictions).

Heck, some people seem to think that even putting in the effort to make it optional was a waste of resources.

Edited April 24, 2015 by DarthDymond

[ImmortalLowlife]

I'm going to hijack the thread for a second. There has been a lot of back and forth about 12xXP and I think we can all agree that the two sides are either "NO 12xXP!!!!" and "Let's have a rational optional system where a person needs to level at least 4 mirror classes to at least the end of Corellia" or even more restrictive requirements.

 

So now we get a 12xXP for May 4th that is open for all subs with no recommendations we've made. So the questions are:

1) Have the devs even read this thread?

2) Do they care what we think?

3) Wouldn't May 4th be a good time to test out some of our suggestions or do they just don't want to change code at this point?

 

1. Yes

2. Not really...unless you're on EAs board of directors.

3. I think it IS a test. They're testing to see which direction the population will go. They'll be checking how the 12XP effects all areas of the game, and wether it's actually a good or bad thing In the long run.