12 x XP for class-missions

[Aebrynis]

Apologies if my concern has already been expressed, but...

 

12x experience could be viable, but I'd not want to just throw it out willy-nilly and have everyone fast-leveling something they didn't quite comprehend.

 

Meaning, if I've leveled a sage the old-fashioned way on Server A, leveling a sage on server B (or even a second sage on server A) should be an option using 12x experience. A consideration might be to allow a sorcerer to be leveled, as they are effectively opposite sides of the same coin - I've leveled both the old way, so in my book, it wouldn't make much of a difference what the decision was.

 

The hiccup would be shadows/assassins - the play style is very different from their 'spell-slinging' otherselves, so a limitation of some sort might be in order...regardless...

 

My worry is not how someone spends their time, or what they pay, or if they're circumventing the system, and so on and so forth. All of that is irrelevant to me, and it's none of my business. My sole concern is that toon goes up at an absurdly rapid rate, and yet the player doesn't really understand the mechanics of how the character class works, which can BE my business under certain circumstances.

 

I, for example, used the 12x period to level the Jedi Sentinel that I'd had sitting at level 20 since launch. Okay, she's 50-something now...I will take her into unranked warzones, because I have a basic idea of what I'm doing, and can generally hold my own and make a contribution to the team effort. I've spent some time with 'green' mobs and side stories since then, getting a handle on the playstyle of the class. I am proficient with a sentinel (and thus, likely a marauder, which I am leveling the old-fashioned way), enough that I can be confident that I can be an asset in unranked warzones and story-mode flashpoints. Hard mode FP's, I don't generally do, anyways, so that's not much of a consideration for me.

 

But I will never take her into a ranked contest - ever.

 

I'm competent enough in ranked with the other toons I have that I boosted the old way (enough that I don't consider myself a liability, anyways), but that being the case, I will never use the sentinel in a ranked warzone - I simply don't have the handle on the class and playstyle to do it. I would be a massive liability to my teammates. Mistakes in unranked that can be dismissed as an annoyance are deadly sins in advanced contests, and I don't have the right to do that to people.

 

That's my concern with 12x - that people who use it for a boost won't really have a handle on the class or the mechanics. If I'm in a ranked contest, I want to think everyone knows what they're doing. Just as I would never take that sentinel into a ranked zone, I don't want a speed-boosted 12x-timer costing the team the match because they don't know what they're doing. And I would wager that people who regularly run HM flashpoints would say the same (feel free to correct me, Hard Mode types, if that's not the case).

 

So if you've done something once - sage, powertech, assassin, whatever - sure, bust out the 12x token and have at it. Otherwise...please don't.

[Ratajack]

Apologies if my concern has already been expressed, but...

 

12x experience could be viable, but I'd not want to just throw it out willy-nilly and have everyone fast-leveling something they didn't quite comprehend.

 

Meaning, if I've leveled a sage the old-fashioned way on Server A, leveling a sage on server B (or even a second sage on server A) should be an option using 12x experience. A consideration might be to allow a sorcerer to be leveled, as they are effectively opposite sides of the same coin - I've leveled both the old way, so in my book, it wouldn't make much of a difference what the decision was.

 

The hiccup would be shadows/assassins - the play style is very different from their 'spell-slinging' otherselves, so a limitation of some sort might be in order...regardless...

 

My worry is not how someone spends their time, or what they pay, or if they're circumventing the system, and so on and so forth. All of that is irrelevant to me, and it's none of my business. My sole concern is that toon goes up at an absurdly rapid rate, and yet the player doesn't really understand the mechanics of how the character class works, which can BE my business under certain circumstances.

 

I, for example, used the 12x period to level the Jedi Sentinel that I'd had sitting at level 20 since launch. Okay, she's 50-something now...I will take her into unranked warzones, because I have a basic idea of what I'm doing, and can generally hold my own and make a contribution to the team effort. I've spent some time with 'green' mobs and side stories since then, getting a handle on the playstyle of the class. I am proficient with a sentinel (and thus, likely a marauder, which I am leveling the old-fashioned way), enough that I can be confident that I can be an asset in unranked warzones and story-mode flashpoints. Hard mode FP's, I don't generally do, anyways, so that's not much of a consideration for me.

 

But I will never take her into a ranked contest - ever.

 

I'm competent enough in ranked with the other toons I have that I boosted the old way (enough that I don't consider myself a liability, anyways), but that being the case, I will never use the sentinel in a ranked warzone - I simply don't have the handle on the class and playstyle to do it. I would be a massive liability to my teammates. Mistakes in unranked that can be dismissed as an annoyance are deadly sins in advanced contests, and I don't have the right to do that to people.

 

That's my concern with 12x - that people who use it for a boost won't really have a handle on the class or the mechanics. If I'm in a ranked contest, I want to think everyone knows what they're doing. Just as I would never take that sentinel into a ranked zone, I don't want a speed-boosted 12x-timer costing the team the match because they don't know what they're doing. And I would wager that people who regularly run HM flashpoints would say the same (feel free to correct me, Hard Mode types, if that's not the case).

 

So if you've done something once - sage, powertech, assassin, whatever - sure, bust out the 12x token and have at it. Otherwise...please don't.

 

Wait for it.

 

It won't be long before we see the first of what will likely be many unsupported claims that no one will be doing that, that players that use the "light speed, easy mode, fast pass, cater to my laziness" means of leveling will actually spend time researching appropriate gear, specs, rotations, etc.

 

IMO, those players are far more likely not to bother upgrading gear as they level, or even when they reach max level, and to attempt to "learn on the job" and just jump into those hard modes. This is what we saw happen the last time they gave us the 12XP boost. This is why there were so many threads from people demanding "free, auto upgrading gear" and from people describing exactly how disastrous FP's and OP's were, even the story modes.

 

Remember, these players are the same ones who are too averse to the minimal effort required to level as the game intends, who can't be bothered to level as the game intends and instead demand that BW give them a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass, cater to my laziness" means of leveling. Why should I believe that they will be bothered to do any research on their chosen "fast pass" classes or upgrading their gear?

Edited March 12, 2015 by Ratajack

[TUXs]

AThat's my concern with 12x - that people who use it for a boost won't really have a handle on the class or the mechanics.

Just because you would find it difficult to figure out, doesn't mean everyone does - the mechanics aren't nearly as difficult to learn as you seem to think they are. If you're afraid of playing with people who are either bad players or new to the game, don't invite anyone you don't know to your groups.

[Pirate_Scuba]

This is where I disagree. Because the 12x request is not about adding a new style of play, its about adding a style of play that obviates the other styles of play in that it presents the rewards in so swift and easy a fashion that for most it would beg to be the default method of play.

 

Its a method of play that damages all the other methods of play, makes them inefficient and undesirable for those looking to achieve the 'end game'.

 

What if the class missions for 12x XP were put on timers so that you could only perform one every two hours (arbitrary number for demonstration purposes only) and that to complete al the story quests in this 12x method ended up taking roughly the same time that it takes the _median_ player to level and achieve the end of their class story?

 

So, for sake of argument, lets say the median player now takes 3 months of real time (maybe 5.7 days played in game time) and so the 12x experience was limited by time lockouts on doing class quests so that the player had to take the same rough amount of time as the Median in order to complete.

 

Will the 12x XP advocates accept this? I wager they would not. But then it would be a 'viable' alternative and just one amongst relatively equal methods of achieving the end.

 

Its demonstrated time and again that this is NOT a playstyle request. Its not about just wanting to see the story lines, its about being able to do this in a time frame that is significantly compressed compared to every other activity in the game.

 

Its about getting it done, and getting it done fast. Who cares what they want to do with the character when they 'get it done' they still want it in a time scale that is so significantly different than every other time scale that the end result (being level 50+) occurs so much faster that it is the de facto best and only way to get a character to the end game.

 

Its not introducing a viable play style option, its superseding all present options with a method that diminishes them simultaneously. And as mentioned and repeated before, creates a method to truly exploit FOTM Classes, damage end game significantly for anyone who then has to deal with the proliferation of FOTM classes/builds, etc while diminishing the already diminished pool of players who were available in the other potential play styles because undoubtedly they would move from that play style to this more desirable one proposed.

 

IMO this point of view is wrong for several reasons, Your view that this will negatively affect your game-play is probably somewhat naive.

 

I agree that a 12xp style perk should be tied to some sort of legacy level cap to prevent green players from starting a brand new account and using 12XP. However for people who have already achieved the legacy cap (and possibly requiring a leveled A/C for this class or the mirror class), it is a good way to level a character with a desire to complete the story line in a fairly uninterrupted manner.

 

There are already a significant number of players who have leveled through the "full" leveling experience and still do not understand or perhaps care to learn how to play their class to the optimum level. People leveling almost exclusively through KDY simply compounds this problem and is not tied in any way to 12XP. If that's how they want to play, then that's likely all they would have achieved so 12XP is a moot point. The leveling grind does not teach you to play a class optimally, only research and discussion with other players will teach you this.

 

The idea that 12xp will create F2P accounts who will "abuse" the system to do the stories and then quit without subscribing is irrelevant as they would likely have done that anyway.

 

To give you an example, I am currently leveling a sorcerer ( have a level 60 sage) of which i have a good handle on how to play the class and am able to easily gear to a good level because of an abundance of (mostly otherwise useless) basic comms on my other toons. How does this affect your game play you might ask as i am not leveling using 12xp?

 

I am not required to participate in leveling planet content with anyone as because of my gear level and (arguable skill/class knowledge + Force Storm is OP) I can already solo most heroics at a level or 2 above the suggested level. Sure i might group with another person if i see them running around solo in a heroic area, but i'm in no way forced to do so and will definitely not hang around waiting for a quest grouping request.

 

I am also Pvping a fair bit with this toon, which i would have done anyway because i am enjoying it and want to farm some comms.

 

The main reason I wanted to do this was to revisit the inquisitor story line (as I don't play imp side much) and I spend most of my game time doing endgame content so i don't want to waste my time grinding planetary quests (that i have done a number of times before).

 

The only real argument against 12XP is "other players want to play in way I don't like". It does not/will not change how many people play or the skill at which they will play. Additionally people leveling FOTM classes are likely to be people who already have a reasonable knowledge of the game and know the significance of changes made to the game, whilst enabling this to some extent it will in no way stop it. The responsibility here is for BW to properly balance the classes in a more timely manner (yeah, I know...).

 

Also, the argument that it takes me X months to do therefore it should take you this long also is just ridiculous! I agree it should be an optional (and legacy level restricted) perk so it does not affect your game play style, because I do not want to interfere with how you want to enjoy the game either.

 

and this;

Just because you would find it difficult to figure out, doesn't mean everyone does - the mechanics aren't nearly as difficult to learn as you seem to think they are. If you're afraid of playing with people who are either bad players or new to the game, don't invite anyone you don't know to your groups.

[EliteSeraph]

I'm glad someone else recognizes the absurdity of some of the wild claims that people are making about to be potential effects of 12 X.

 

Let's take the FOTM exploit for example.

I'm more than a little curious to know how someone re-rolling into a popular class can be construed as an exploit. Or how large numbers of players reaching level cap faster would constitute allowing that same class to exploit something.

 

Does leveling up more quickly give them access to powers, or equipment, or zones that are unattainable by other means? No.

 

Any balance change great enough to cause mass rerolls on a scale large enough to actually effect the end game dynamic to any significant degree would happen regardless of how fast a character reaches level cap.

 

You may be personally offended that so many FOTM start appearing, that doesn't constitute a game breaking exploit.

[FerkWork]

I will never use the SENTINEL in a ranked warzone

I can tell you that is a correct statement but for very different reasons.

 

As stated above and I stated earlier leveling teaches you nothing about playing a class.

Want to know how to actually play your class? Read the Dulfy guide and practice your rotation. Congratulations your now better than most of the mouth breathers in Regs and Group finder. Even if they leveled the normal way.

Proof: My Sorc was leveled during 12xp and can parse over 4k. My PT tank same and I use for progression HM and classic Nightmare content. I am a decent healer on my samely leveled OP. I'm leveling a Sin tank at the moment. It will probable be better than most sin tanks after I do my advice.

Joining the 12xp train choo choo.

Edited March 13, 2015 by FerkWork

[FerkWork]

Just because you would find it difficult to figure out, doesn't mean everyone does - the mechanics aren't nearly as difficult to learn as you seem to think they are. If you're afraid of playing with people who are either bad players or new to the game, don't invite anyone you don't know to your groups.

 

This many times over

[MandFlurry]

Just because you would find it difficult to figure out, doesn't mean everyone does - the mechanics aren't nearly as difficult to learn as you seem to think they are. If you're afraid of playing with people who are either bad players or new to the game, don't invite anyone you don't know to your groups.

 

That's just simple Logic heheh.

 

But also, i'm lucky i'm in a good guild to, a Progressive 1 at that that doesn't have stupid Elitists. My Guild actually cares to help ppl learn how to do Fps and Ops and things. I can't hardly play anymore, wish i could, I know if I was pysically able to that my Guild would be nice enough to let me try new Fps and Ops if i have the Right Gear of course, or even under-Geared sometimes.

 

Like I have been saying 12X had some of the best playing characters I know, who could really grind faster than me to, and they sure as hell as couldn't have done 12X by themselves unless they Knew the Fighting Mechanics. I know because I was right by them fighting near them as they were grinding 12X. A lot of 12X'ers would be among the best PVE'ers in my book to.

 

A Bad player isn't a bad player because of 12x, they're a Bad player becausee that's the way they would play with or without 12X. It matters not.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Just because you would find it difficult to figure out, doesn't mean everyone does - the mechanics aren't nearly as difficult to learn as you seem to think they are. If you're afraid of playing with people who are either bad players or new to the game, don't invite anyone you don't know to your groups.

 

This is a good point, besides more people learn to play their class by googling guides then by leveling.

[Liquor]

Just because you would find it difficult to figure out, doesn't mean everyone does - the mechanics aren't nearly as difficult to learn as you seem to think they are. If you're afraid of playing with people who are either bad players or new to the game, don't invite anyone you don't know to your groups.

we can invite players to WZs? Pugs? sure we can leave both as needed but people remember who leaves thus on those occasions when an invite is used, we could be passed up.

 

we shouldn't be forced to leave a group if the group leader invites the inexperienced. we shouldn't be exempt from invites if we are known for leaving groups due to these inexperienced players.

 

not all are inexperienced but x12 XP boost will bring more high level players that are inexperienced into end game content.

 

I wouldn't say they are afraid of it. that's just laughable.

 

the supporters of x12 XP that have posted in the last couple of days and new to this thread, haven't added anything that hasn't been brought up in previous posts.

 

x12 XP boost is a quick fix for those that want to go through the story missions again. while others want to use it to level up FotM characters asap. while still others complain about lack of end game content. holding your hand so you can level up quickly will not solve content issues in the future of SWTOR. it will actually make it worse since there will be a larger supply of end game content players getting bored with the same old stuff over and over again. sure BW will bring us more content, but once you go through it, you will be wanting more and complaining.

 

slow down the leveling process, there is already a lot of content that is bypassed.

low level crew skills will hurt in the long run. less players seeking new gear for their new lowbie levels. once you have a few crafters and legacy gear, why buy mats and gear when you can craft 1 set for each AC??

 

I do this already. multiple alts, using legacy gear to level up on toons and their companions. its all DPS gear while companions all use cunning or strength. a purple set will last 8-10 levels real easily. I have lvl 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 sets in legacy gear for alts and companions just waiting to be used when I feel like logging onto a lowbie. I have 18 alts on 1 server alone dedicated as mules and crew skill whores. I'm not running out of mats, plenty of credits to go around, enough sets of end game gear for heals/dps or tank/dps as required for War Zones or Operations. when BW raised the caps and gear, it took less than a week to min/max the gear for WZ and Ops (heals/dps and tank/dps sets).

 

the game is easy, the operations are easy, the wz are easy. Its the inexperienced players in these groups that make it frustrating. giving the community x12 XP boost doesn't improve game play long term. its a temporary fix for a handful of players that will impact the game long term. x12 XP doesn't impact my game play. I still do my thing and make adjustments as needed for those inexperienced. those of us that are against x12 XP are actually looking out for the future of the game and its community. while most of the x12 XP supporters are just wanting it for their personal gain with end game content and FotM fast lanes. only a small portion of those want story mission uninterrupted.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Liquor

[TUXs]

we can invite players to WZs? Pugs? sure we can leave both as needed but people remember who leaves thus on those occasions when an invite is used, we could be passed up.

Sure, let me tell you how:

 

• Avoid PuGs by forming your own 4-16 player group prior to queuing up

• Get 3 other players who take PvP as seriously as you do, and do ranked

 

Or...just suck it up. I'll take the learning players and bad players over the lack of players any day.

[Raphael_diSanto]

This is a good point, besides more people learn to play their class by googling guides then by leveling.

 

That's because levelling doesn't teach you how to play your class anyway. You can level from 1-60 only using about 3 or 4 abilities, none of them important abilities for endgame activities, should you wish to participate in those endgame activities (which many people, especially people who only play for the stories, don't)

[Raphael_diSanto]

. only a small portion of those want story mission uninterrupted.

 

I'm one of those, but unfortunately, I think you're probably right here. I'm all in favor of 12x XP, but I don't see it ever happening.

[ivanhedgehog]

Sure, let me tell you how:

 

• Avoid PuGs by forming your own 4-16 player group prior to queuing up

• Get 3 other players who take PvP as seriously as you do, and do ranked

 

Or...just suck it up. I'll take the learning players and bad players over the lack of players any day.

 

also, how does killing 20 more rakghouls on taris to make some schmoe happy make you a better pvp player? what pvp skills do you get from it? you will still have to know how to play the character with 12x xp. it isnt a magic level button. I have seen people that played a toon from launch that still dont play well. you either can or you cant.

[FerkWork]

also, how does killing 20 more rakghouls on taris to make some schmoe happy make you a better pvp player?

 

Stop giving away my secret to be a PvP God!

Edited March 13, 2015 by FerkWork

[FerkWork]

we can invite players to WZs? Pugs? sure we can leave both as needed but people remember who leaves thus on those occasions when an invite is used, we could be passed up.

Then make group yourself or kick the baddies. This is why I run mostly in guild save for easy content or with other good guilds/players

we shouldn't be forced to leave a group if the group leader invites the inexperienced. we shouldn't be exempt from invites if we are known for leaving groups due to these inexperienced players. Then tell them no baddies plus you only invite for puging ops. GF dont give you choice. Or just carry. I do it all the time.

 

not all are inexperienced but x12 XP boost will bring more high level players that are inexperienced into end game content.

If 12xp was for lv 50 Legacy then not a problem. Window lickers are the ones who grind for solo and never read a dang guide cause its so easy, we keep saying this but you ignore it

 

I wouldn't say they are afraid of it. that's just laughable.

 

the supporters of x12 XP that have posted in the last couple of days and new to this thread, haven't added anything that hasn't been brought up in previous posts.

Its like the same argument for don't bring back rare cosmetics. God forbid some people have something I don't like

x12 XP boost is a quick fix for those that want to go through the story missions again. while others want to use it to level up FotM characters asap. while still others complain about lack of end game content. holding your hand so you can level up quickly will not solve content issues in the future of SWTOR. it will actually make it worse since there will be a larger supply of end game content players getting bored with the same old stuff over and over again. sure BW will bring us more content, but once you go through it, you will be wanting more and complaining.

Do you even PvP brah? FOTM usually don't know how to play as they don' read the guides and just think they can be OP. Then they get slaughtered in Ranked for being a scrub

 

slow down the leveling process, there is already a lot of content that is bypassed.

low level crew skills will hurt in the long run. less players seeking new gear for their new lowbie levels. once you have a few crafters and legacy gear, why buy mats and gear when you can craft 1 set for each AC??

I've seen all the content. I say speed it up. I only do the low level fp for achievios and then solo at 60. If your trying to make us social at low level with window lickers then please no. Anyways many like me only play at the endgame or like endgame. I'm not leveling a sin tank to play social hour with scrubs at lowbie. I'm making a toon so I can have all 3 tanks for Ops as certain tanks do better in certain HM fights. Again guides beat grind. Also, newbeis will still buy. I never buy my gear at any level. I use loot armor for leveling and save comms for end game

I do this already. multiple alts, using legacy gear to level up on toons and their companions. its all DPS gear while companions all use cunning or strength. a purple set will last 8-10 levels real easily. I have lvl 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 sets in legacy gear for alts and companions just waiting to be used when I feel like logging onto a lowbie. I have 18 alts on 1 server alone dedicated as mules and crew skill whores. I'm not running out of mats, plenty of credits to go around, enough sets of end game gear for heals/dps or tank/dps as required for War Zones or Operations. when BW raised the caps and gear, it took less than a week to min/max the gear for WZ and Ops (heals/dps and tank/dps sets).And here you are speeding up the leveling process and destroying low level sales on armor just like I'm doing.

 

the game is easy, the operations are easy, the wz are easy. Its the inexperienced players in these groups that make it frustrating. giving the community x12 XP boost doesn't improve game play long term. its a temporary fix for a handful of players that will impact the game long term. x12 XP doesn't impact my game play. I still do my thing and make adjustments as needed for those inexperienced. those of us that are against x12 XP are actually looking out for the future of the game and its community. while most of the x12 XP supporters are just wanting it for their personal gain with end game content and FotM fast lanes. only a small portion of those want story mission uninterrupted.

Leveling is easy. Ranked WZ and HM/NIM OPs are fun challenges. The window lickers are mostly graudates of KDY Academy grind. You're fear mongering at the end with little proof.I will tell you why I want 12xp as honestly I can be: I play at endgame, I care less about leveling which is boring if you seen story and doesn't teach you anything. I read the good Dulfy guides and do low level ops then move to higher ones pretty quickly. For me endgame is where its at. Making me level isn't going to make me socialize if you more or make me a better player. These arguments are silly. 12xp would be fine. And for the story people let them play for the story uniterrupted. Get off their back.

 

TLDR: 12xp for LV 50 Legacy Unlock.

What needs to be implemented: At LV 50, 55, and 60 you have to pass a Raptus type test for your class. Until you pass you can't queue for that levels OPs and HM FP's.

Edited March 13, 2015 by FerkWork

[Oiccrene]

I want to address this as it has been addressed before.

 

The number of low level characters may increase. The number of these characters participating in content that was not the story line would NOT increase. Most of these players have already indicated by their clamouring fo 12x XP that they don't want to do anything but the story. So they would single player their brief time as low level characters running just the missions they wanted to run and they would contribute nothing to the environment of low level players.

 

So they may even be seen as a detriment because a new player's experience will be that no one talks/participates/helps and will give the perception that the game is less than a multiplayer experience.

 

And this is exactly what 12x supporters want and say they want, they just want to play the game by themselves and do just what they want to do and nothing else ever. They want to turn a MMO into a SP RPG, but with cheat codes so they don't even have to do the leveling process a SP RPG requires as well.

 

So the additional 'low level characters' would not be beneficial to the game. AND as you point out, the bump would be short term.

 

Actually you are right. I do want SP RPG, because how good story is for SWTOR. Now, I don't use cheat codes in correctly paced and created rpgs. Where you do not have to grind to win. I do, if you do have to grind. Simple as that.

 

Let me give you an example from a RPG: Dark Souls. I have played about 250 hours in Dark Souls I. But I have only really finished it completely twice. And that was correctly paced RPG. What did I do after? Simply had fun in coop/pvp. Guy released save file modified that gives you all items and ****ton of souls (with what you level up), so you could always make a new toon, new way to have fun in pvp etc. Did it hurt anyone? No. Did it prolong the fun for WHOLE DARKSOULS COMMUNITY? **** yes. And there were people crying about that hacked save too...

Edited March 14, 2015 by Oiccrene

[Ratajack]

Actually you are right. I do want SP RPG, because how good story is for SWTOR. Now, I don't use cheat codes in correctly paced and created rpgs. Where you do not have to grind to win. I do, if you do have to grind. Simple as that.

 

Let me give you an example from a RPG: Dark Souls. I have played about 250 hours in Dark Souls I. But I have only really finished it completely twice. And that was correctly paced RPG. What did I do after? Simply had fun in coop/pvp. Guy released save file modified that gives you all items and ****ton of souls (with what you level up), so you could always make a new toon, new way to have fun in pvp etc. Did it hurt anyone? No. Did it prolong the fun for WHOLE DARKSOULS COMMUNITY? **** yes. And there were people crying about that hacked save too...

 

You have really shown your true colors with this post.

 

First, you say:

 

Actually you are right. I do want SP RPG, because how good story is for SWTOR. Now, I don't use cheat codes in correctly paced and created rpgs. Where you do not have to grind to win. I do, if you do have to grind. Simple as that.

 

Here you CLAIM that you do not use cheat codes or hacks in correctly paced RPG's. The inference being that you will play them as designed.

 

 

Let me give you an example from a RPG: Dark Souls. I have played about 250 hours in Dark Souls I. But I have only really finished it completely twice. And that was correctly paced RPG.

 

You're telling us that Dark Souls was a correctly paced RPG. Those are YOUR words, not mine. You also admit that you only completed the game as the devs designed it twice.

 

 

What did I do after? Simply had fun in coop/pvp. Guy released save file modified that gives you all items and ****ton of souls (with what you level up), so you could always make a new toon, new way to have fun in pvp etc. Did it hurt anyone? No. Did it prolong the fun for WHOLE DARKSOULS COMMUNITY? **** yes. And there were people crying about that hacked save too...

 

Here, you tell us that you used a hack, a saved game file that gave you MAX LEVEL characters with ALL items instantly. You did this in, again using YOUR words, a CORRECTLY PACED RPG, even though you claim that you do not use cheat codes in a correctly paced RPG.

 

BTW, using those hacks DID impact, even hurt, all those other players with whom you found yourself PVP'ing, especially those who did not cheat.

 

Could you at least try to be a little more honest, both with yourself and those players on the forums.

 

I think most of us have figured out that you simply want a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass" to max level because you are too lazy to level those new characters as the game is designed. You are even too averse to the effort required to play, in your own words, " a CORRECTLY PACED RPG[/b" without using cheat codes and hacks.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Ratajack

[Ratajack]

Even though most ppl can do that, Liquor seems to just want to complain about anything, as some others here that's not heir business for some things. So many ppl don't have that have made their view clear like this said person has no effect on how they play the game.

 

No, ppl don't have the right but only the Devs so set a Legacy number standard to be able to do 12X. Thank God EAWare so has gone against a Stupid Legacy 50 or 60, which is just Bs. i've had 4 lvl 55s with a Legacy Rank only about lvl 34 til' later last year i was doing Full Ops and and Fps. Legacy number slot 50 or or even below that at a certain number is from Egoists and Elitists that don't want any1 to have 12X anyway.

 

Legacy Unlock my arse.

 

Another thing the Community doesn't have ANY RIGHT to tell us is how much content we should be doing. This game isn't made for Egoists and Eletists or ppl that are both. Ppl Want their Class Story, they don't need all the in-betweens with exceptions of ppl that need to make their Own Money and earn Gear. Again that the Players responsibility. Not up to the Community to how ppl will get their Money and Gear .

 

Some Blockheads have complained that ppl will also complain about not having enough Content. Well just about the Whole Community wants more content, and will never be satisfied, plus if 12X ppl want more Content they can always go back to the Planets they were on and do quests they didn't do.

 

That damm simple.

 

So you tell the devs to set a legacy level to open up 12XP, but then go on about how any legacy level set by the devs would be BS if it is above your legacy level and you would not qualify for that 12XP boost?

 

Gee, that sounds like a perfect example of what another poster in this thread has been saying about the "suggested" requirements for 12XP proposed by those demanding 12XP. Those wanting 12XP want to set some requirement(s) (which they meet, of course, as any requirements they do not meet are too severe and unfair) in order to gain that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass" means of leveling, but those same people want to deny that means of leveling to anyone who does not meet their "suggested requirements".

 

Nice to see how accurate his prediction, or assessment was.

 

Yes, only BW can set any requirements for 12XP. They have so far chosen not to even allow it as a permanent option or feature. Hopefully, they will continue to do so.

[Liquor]

Even though most ppl can do that, Liquor seems to just want to complain about anything, as some others here that's not heir business for some things. So many ppl don't have that have made their view clear like this said person has no effect on how they play the game.

 

No, ppl don't have the right but only the Devs so set a Legacy number standard to be able to do 12X. Thank God EAWare so has gone against a Stupid Legacy 50 or 60, which is just Bs. i've had 4 lvl 55s with a Legacy Rank only about lvl 34 til' later last year i was doing Full Ops and and Fps. Legacy number slot 50 or or even below that at a certain number is from Egoists and Elitists that don't want any1 to have 12X anyway.

 

Legacy Unlock my arse.

 

Another thing the Community doesn't have ANY RIGHT to tell us is how much content we should be doing. This game isn't made for Egoists and Eletists or ppl that are both. Ppl Want their Class Story, they don't need all the in-betweens with exceptions of ppl that need to make their Own Money and earn Gear. Again that the Players responsibility. Not up to the Community to how ppl will get their Money and Gear .

 

Some Blockheads have complained that ppl will also complain about not having enough Content. Well just about the Whole Community wants more content, and will never be satisfied, plus if 12X ppl want more Content they can always go back to the Planets they were on and do quests they didn't do.

 

That damm simple.

 

I bring up valid points just as others have as well

Can you have a discussion without name calling?

Switch your mind on and look at the bigger picture, look at the long term impacts LARGE XP boosts have

My supporters of NO x12 XP boost either legacy or CC market bring up many points in pervious posts

Troll all you want but I'll continue to put my

Focus onto the OP discussion and

To help others see the whole picture on how x12 XP boosts can impact the game long term

You sir, have a good day

Edited March 15, 2015 by Liquor

[AizaTalzin]

The "whole picture" of the impact of 12xp? You mean how it could very well be Biowares single most important piece of marketing should they want player base to grow?

 

You brought up Major XP Boost. Let me be frank: That is one of the single most important items for some people leveling in this game. Why? Because not all of us play for 6-12 hours a day. Some of us have real jobs, real family's, real outside obligations that take priority over this game. That being said, given that I only play the game for an hour or two at most every day or so, it would take too long to level a character to 60 for me. With the XP Boosts before 12xp came out I was able to level 2 characters in a year to 55 (I wanted more but it simply took too long given my schedule). I am not a fan of the mediocre class stories and those endless side missions. I want to PVP. I love PVP. Yes I pvp'd at earlier levels but I couldnt actually get PVP gear then. I wanted end game content.

 

When 12xp came out (which we know was is in response to WOW's 90 level boost) it was a godsend. I actually managed to level up six more characters so that I now have one character for each class in this game. I loved it. I was disheartened that it was taken away. I would have loved for it to remain an option. People say that a 12xp boost will hurt end game content as people will not know what theyre doing. I have a very important news flash:

 

BEFORE 12xp PEOPLE DIDNT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING!

 

You have people from KDY and people who leveled with planets and quests who don't know what they were supposed to do end game. In PVP they got burned yet they learned. In OPS they were taught by a good guild. Thats the thing. No one in this forum or in this game can say they know everything about everything. We all suck in some way and to claim that 12xp will bring down the "quality" of players in the end game... just ****. Pre-60 days we had the same damn problem. Post-60 we have the same damn problem.

 

All 12xp will do (If bioware FOCUSED on marketing) is draw in a large group of new players. Keep it as an option for all players. New, returning, and current will use it. Even if you say you wont because of some "moral high ground" I guarantee the thought will at least pass your mind once, twice, or thrice on whether to use it. Your choice. But be informed that was an excellent tool that helped players who cant play daily be able to enjoy this game.

 

Look at it like this. I bought a 90 boost in WOW the end of January. They still have it up from my understanding. Even after expansion has occurred, WOW still has their boost up. Why don't we? Who at bioware thought that was a smart idea?

 

Just because you think it's a bad idea for the game does not mean it is in fact a bad idea for the game.

 

Solution:

Make it available for players via:

- Toggle (on/off) for subs

or

- Cartel Market Item like the major and minor xp boost.

Edited March 15, 2015 by AizaTalzin

[Liquor]

The "whole picture" of the impact of 12xp? You mean how it could very well be Biowares single most important piece of marketing should they want player base to grow?

 

You brought up Major XP Boost. Let me be frank: That is one of the single most important items for some people leveling in this game. Why? Because not all of us play for 6-12 hours a day. Some of us have real jobs, real family's, real outside obligations that take priority over this game. ...

 

guess you missed the rest of the thread. i dont feel like rehashing what has already been said by all 3 sides of the discussion.

i can play nice, but that seemed pointless so here goes. its BW's game and they can run it however they like. but why copy wow? if you want it like wow. go play wow

Edited March 15, 2015 by Liquor

[FerkWork]

guess you missed the rest of the thread. i dont feel like rehashing what has already been said by all 3 sides of the discussion.

i can play nice, but that seemed pointless so here goes. its BW's game and they can run it however they like. but why copy wow? if you want it like wow. go play wow

 

Lol, can you make a coherent argument without playing the victim card. Seriously it's just 12xp, it won't kill you. Some people just want to be right regardless.

 

My 12xp tank vs Bulo HM with post nerf unload and shoulder cannon

[AizaTalzin]

guess you missed the rest of the thread. i dont feel like rehashing what has already been said by all 3 sides of the discussion.

i can play nice, but that seemed pointless so here goes. its BW's game and they can run it however they like. but why copy wow? if you want it like wow. go play wow

 

Unfortunate you edited the rather colorful original post you had up. Guess you didn't want to get torched with all the bs you had originally posted in it. lol

 

Anyways: Why copy WOW? In a way that is what Bioware initially did with 12xp. They opened that can of worms by competing with them in the first place with the 12xp promotion. From a business standpoint though it would make sense to do things similar to the big dawg in the yard. There's a reason they are the big dawg. They are doing things right. Am I saying we need to be a WOW clone? Absolutely not. What I am saying is we can use things that they themselves implemented with marketing. You see it all the time in modern sales. Companies copy other companies. This would be a prime example where if we kept the 12xp for class missions we would do something similar to WOW but not outright offering an "auto level to 50" button.

 

This is Biowares game and yes they can do what they wish with it however they would be fools to ignore what was an incredibly popular "gimmick". It brought back people. It helped others like me level up new alts and experience those play styles and stories. This would not hurt the game in any facet. 12xp for class missions lets people experience the class missions while getting to end game.

 

There were numerous arguments about "OMGURDZ! if you 12xp you don't know how to play your class." or "OMGURDZ! You 12xp'd just to play FOTM!!!" Well the answer to this is simple: Even people who had neglected alts that became "overpowered" (or whatever term they use) suddenly began to play those neglected new FOTM. That did not mean they knew how to play them properly. It doesn't matter how you level up. It absolutely does not.

 

What matters is your willingness to learn your class properly. How you play a class in PVE is different than how you play them in PVP and vice versa. It comes down to the individual. People got rekt by 12xpers in PVP all the time (and again vice versa) while the promotion was going on. We all will make mistakes. There is not a SINGLE PERSON in this game that plays every aspect of it with zero error. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. People who level up with no boosts could have no real clue how to play their characters end game when they get there. Fighting a boss in an operation is different than fighting one on Tython, Hoth, or Corellia. You would not know how to do it without working with your team before and during an operation and learning. How do you learn? By getting to end game and experiencing it.

 

Let people keep their 12xp for class missions (or otherwise give them the OPTION to have it). Bioware made this mess when they indicated they would possibly bring it back. People obviously want it. Just give it to them as a choice.

 

If we have a toggle option or a cartel market option does not affect you in any way. I will not play with you. I will not team with you. I won't do an operation with you. I will go through my class stories at 12xp. I will get to my max rank. I will then begin the process of learning the end game tactics of my advanced class. That impacts you in absolutely no way. You want to say if we pvp'd in 60 reg pug that my "noobishness" would impact you? My answer to this is what you said in your original reply to me (before you edited it out); you are only there for commendations right? You are only there to get your daily and weekly done on every character you have, right? Winning and losing shouldnt matter to you in 60 regs, rights? Since you obviously only care about the commendations.

 

I will go into a PVP warzone as a 60 once I have done background on my advanced class. Whether I use noxic, dulfy, youtube videos, and threads on here. I would have done research on proper tactics and procedures for this. Did everyone who leveled up without 12xp before that promotion do this? I highly doubt it.

[EliteSeraph]

You're wasting your words, Aiza. These guys are so locked into their way of thinking that they're not even willing to consider other possibilities. Logic is not involved.