HM Ravagers & Temple progression thread

[skywalking]

Mango Team (cool name, i know), part of guild Outbreak (ToFN - EU), is also 8/10 on progress . You can add us to the list

 

Our 4th boss kills are here:

 

 

Aside from that, I agree with the OP, HM difficulty is just too high at the moment, discouraging many raiding teams because it's too time-taking for their taste. Hell, even raid teams for SM are forming, that's ridiculous.

Edited February 18, 2015 by skywalking

[sang]

Context: I’m the co-raid leader of Hates You B

 

When the expansion first came out we just came back to raiding as CKN with a very unstable roster with several folks who just weren’t cut out for the new difficulty of HM content. Add in roughly two weeks of non raiding for the holidays and we were just sitting around 3/10. When we decided to merge groups and become Hates You B we cleared 8/10 in just under two weeks with a newly formed group. It took us roughly another two weeks to go 9/10. So overall, even though the content has been out two months, I really view us as about a month into progression. Given that understanding and challenges of forming a new group, I think where we are is pretty reasonable.

 

My biggest gripe with the new content is how ridiculously weighted it is towards class stacking. This has always been part of progression raiding, but I feel this tier of content has taken it further than its ever been before (excluding gross class imbalances). For high end progression raiders this is less of an issue, but for the casual to semi-hardcore crowd who don’t have people who can swap between 3 different classes of the same role, it makes the content that much harder. I think if Bioware could figure out how to ease up on the benefits of class stacking without nerfing the fights too hard, we’d start to see more people clearing content.

 

Since you bring it up, how do your sorcs manage mouse droids? Threat drop cooldown? Our sage gets wrecked by them even with force armor and force barrier isn't off CD by the second time he got mice.

 

In addition to Milas’ earlier suggestions, as a Sorcerer you can self cleanse both DoTs Ruugar puts out (corrosive grenade and fire) so make sure you are doing so asap. Also remember if you use Force Barrier the mouse droids will pick a new target. If you let go of your Force Barrier before the droids explode they will come back to you. Here is my Sorc DPS PoV from that fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWHT3YSpQqE

(Just ignore me completely goofing my opening on Ruugar)

Edited February 18, 2015 by sang

[Ruskaeth]

On one pull I got three out of four pairs of mouse droids from the get go as a sorc. It was pain in the butt, DPS uptime goes down the toilet while you survive. You need pretty solid pair of healers to take the 2nd one and force speed to be used after you take the first one fast enough. Sometimes when due to reasons there is time for both of the mouse droids coming from same side to group up.. geez. That's almost hilariously wrong. You can only beg for your raid team to kill the other one while you kite if you don't have god bubble ready..

[Citruzz]

mice alone are not the problem. Its tricky if you get hit by something another in the same time you eat the mice, like knockback, charge, mostly dots/frag grenade. Edited February 18, 2015 by Citruzz

[Felkroth]

We formed our group (and as a CONSISTENT 8 started raiding truly about 1 month ago.) So within 1 month of raiding we're presently 7/10. We raid 2 days a week from 8-11pm est.

 

 

My personal opinion is that the HMs this time around are just a tad too difficult (some of them obviously moreso than others). Personally think Bioware should just completely axe NiM releases. I think its a better use of their time and resources to simply have SM be completely and utterly 'softball'd to the casual pug players, then PERHAPS give the current 8/10 HM encounters a MINOR bump in difficulty and just not worry with trying to do a NiM version of stuff anymore.

 

I never really enjoyed going back to EC for NiM, or TFB/SNV for NiM, or DF/DP for NiM after essentially raiding them for months on end in HM versions...sure they were a little different, but still I was kinda burnt out on the zones once NiM rolled around. If they axe NiM, then perhaps instead of getting a NiM TFB/SNV for another 6+ months, we'd get a brand spankin new zone and encounters to play with instead.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Felkroth

[martyngore]

Maybe a little off topic OP but you put the guild <Aeshma> in the 9 out of 10 list. We have only killed 8 of 10 currently and there is one other guild on the Prog who is 8 of 10 but they dont post their progression on the site that was linked - <Ninja looters>.

 

There are also 2 guilds at 7 of 10 and they are close to 8.

 

Thanks

[SpikeSaber]

I wonder what will Nightmare bring us, dont forget 30% nightmare buff

[holmeskywalkr]

Hi Milas, cant really say we (Buddies) are 8/10 16M 'cause we cheesed Blaster by doing it in 8M Edited February 19, 2015 by holmeskywalkr

[Akam]

Last of all with the increased difficulty those that are 8/10 or 8/10 are you enjoying raiding? Would you rather have HM be similar to HM DF/DP or does Revan only being killed by five guilds give you something to chase?

 

Thanks

 

This is just my personal opinion

 

I rather enjoy the new difficulty. This new tier of content closely resembles actual raids based off my own 10+ years of MMO experience and I believe it's a step in the right direction. I certainly prefer it to previous HM raids where you would zone in, faceroll everything and be bored for the next several months while waiting for Nightmare to release.

 

I understand that ALOT of guilds got "screwed" but I wonder if that's really such a bad thing? Is it a travesty that you're no longer able to just zone in and collect loot? I say no. It's better as far as an operation's longevity is concerned that an operation's difficulty mode last as long as possible. This accomplishes two things:

 

1) Gives guilds more content to work on

2) Gives Bioware more time to develop Nightmare Mode

 

TBH...I think it's too early to be asking if Bioware's experiment has succeeded or failed. The absolute earliest time to ask that question is when Nightmare is released. In all probability, and take this with a grain of salt, I suspect Bioware is waiting to release Nightmare until more than a handful of guilds are 10/10.

 

Furthermore, HM will probably see some nerfs to allow more guilds to see the content but as of right now, at least 9/10 does not need to be touched as it is perfectly doable with enough skill, dedicated and effort.

[justinplainview]

Hi Milas, cant really say we (Buddies) are 8/10 16M 'cause we cheesed Blaster by doing it in 8M

 

I think he was more saying you are a 16 man guild, as opposed to saying you did Blaster in 16, but I could be wrong. Since you're in the thread, I want your view on something: How would you feel if Bioware stopped making 16 man content for NiM? What if NiM was only one mode (8 man)? I mean, realistically, there are....2 or 3 guilds that handle HM content in 16 man as their main mode at MOST. What would a group like Buddies do if the raid tuning went down to NiM being only 8 man?

[Akam]

I would like to float a concept of an Idea that is not exactly new to MMOs but something SWTOR has not yet approached. Taking a page from World of Warcraft and specifically ICC, there was an NPC that would increase the raids power (Health, Damage and Healing afaik) by X% when interacted with. This "buff" was only introduced after a period of time and the value was increased multiplicatively per week. Most importantly, this "buff" was completely optional.

 

This buff accomplished a few things;

 

Before Buff

1) Allowed top tier guilds access to difficult content without fear of nerfs from the dev team. The game even recognizes the guilds achievement by rewarding you with "cutting edge". Everyone likes bragging rights, right?

 

After Buff

2) Allowed other very skilled, but not quite top tier guilds access to difficult content and "help" if they were stuck on a particular mechanic

3) After enough time, allowed the rest of the raiding community to clear the content

 

I feel like this is what "Nightmare Power" was supposed to accomplish and it's only failure was being automatically removed after a certain period of time. Rather than being auto removed, it should be a guild's choice to turn it on or off.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Akam

[holmeskywalkr]

I think he was more saying you are a 16 man guild, as opposed to saying you did Blaster in 16, but I could be wrong. Since you're in the thread, I want your view on something: How would you feel if Bioware stopped making 16 man content for NiM? What if NiM was only one mode (8 man)? I mean, realistically, there are....2 or 3 guilds that handle HM content in 16 man as their main mode at MOST. What would a group like Buddies do if the raid tuning went down to NiM being only 8 man?

 

I wouldn't care since I raid with dead monkeys for majority and 16M roster is a fashion thing in the fragile french pve "community", it's too bad but it's a thing. A group like ours is kinda knew, so not stable and welded. Well I guess the 10-12 less worst would switch to 8M.

Edited February 19, 2015 by holmeskywalkr

[darth_psychose]

you are right holmes . 16Man in france is really hard to keep cuz there is always 10good man and 6man you just need to go with to be 16. Ace has 16->8->16->8 and frog stay 16 for about 8months (?). In a future i think french 16man gonna disappear. Edited February 19, 2015 by darth_psychose

[Citruzz]

you are right holmes . 16Man in france is really hard to keep cuz there is always 10good man and 6man you just need to go with to be 16. Ace has 16->8->16->8 and frog stay 16 for about 8months (?). In a future i think french 16man gonna disappear.

 

the situation in germany looks not even better. The only working progress racing team is ambassadors, in my opinion. The interest and the aspiration, to be one of the top raiding teams in the world, seems to be gone. For sure, we have a lot of guilds staying at 8/10, but the most of them don't "overacting" and do not leaving its comfort zone.

[JDotter]

Updated and appreciate all the feedback. Is cool to see I'm not alone in liking the increased difficulty.

[Citruzz]

NOX (Ger / EU) defeated cora. (9/10)

[darth_psychose]

To reply this post with my opinion. I enjoy the difficulty upgrade of this raids. Coratanni 16 is great balance between dps check / survivability. But revan fear me, not because i think i don't have skill to handle it but because french players who are able to do it are really rare (MAXIMUM 2 roster 8 - no joke) and they are not in the same guild. So i hope this content will be affordable anyway for me. Also i'm guardian/jugg and it's thug life somedayz.

 

 

i dont wanna reroll PT

 

Edited February 20, 2015 by darth_psychose

[Joran-Koon]

 

i dont wanna reroll PT

 

I once thought as you did...Rip my Jugg

[SpikeSaber]

I really like Revan's last phase, and I rarely fk it up, but it is hard because every1 else must not fk up either. From what I've noticed people are just lacking concentration.

[Alucardess]

The fact that I, as a SM scrub who wanted to do HM, could (when DF DP HM was actually a thing) be pulled through 10/10 in 1-2 hours is telling. I think my first reaction when going through DF/DP HM with Ascension was "Really? That was super easy." Now, I have yet to go 8/10 (my group's fault. Our positioning with mines and knockbacks suck because we don't have 2 PT tanks and everything gets super tight (I digress)). These new HMs are challenging. I like that. They're really fun. But my question new is does Bioware want more people to see NiM Ops? I personally feel that they do, given the introduction of NiM Power. However, with how Bioware is gating NiM Ops now, given the current state of HM Ops, what is their objective for NiM Ops now. This is ofc assuming people follow the linear thinking of SM->Clear SM->HM->Clear HM->NiM

 

Just an opinion.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Alucardess

[AMightyKnight]

But my question new is does Bioware want more people to see NiM Ops? I personally feel that they do, given the introduction of NiM Power. However, with how Bioware is gating NiM Ops now, given the current state of HM Ops, what is their objective for NiM Ops now.

The obvious answer IMO: The need to milk the ops content as much as possible since they are focussing on 'story' now. Nightmare modes gets pushed to q3 2015 and we wont see any new ops before 2016.

Enjoy.

[justinplainview]

The obvious answer IMO: The need to milk the ops content as much as possible since they are focussing on 'story' now. Nightmare modes gets pushed to q3 2015 and we wont see any new ops before 2016.

Enjoy.

 

The devs said we wouldn't go a year without a new operation again. If I ever have to wait near that long again for a new operation, I'm going to quit SWTOR. And I'll bet good money that many people that raid seriously in this game would too.

[davidp_newton]

The devs said we wouldn't go a year without a new operation again. If I ever have to wait near that long again for a new operation, I'm going to quit SWTOR. And I'll bet good money that many people that raid seriously in this game would too.

 

If we don't get new operation content by early in the second half of this year then it will be more than serious raiders quitting the game. I am now at the stage where I am only really logging into the game for raiding plus a bit of crafting to finish getting my secondary characters augmented and rating 186 geared etc. If we get a long raid drought again I will probably drop my subscription and I know there are several others in my guild who feel the same way. As I intimated earlier in this thread I am hardly a cutting edge raider in a cutting-edge guild. There is thus plenty of potential challenge left in this tier of raiding with the HM bosses for me. However these raids will get old for me as well, and if that happens without substantive new content there will be nothing to tie me to the game.

 

That is why I am anxious to see the issues of SM raiding fixed as well as getting the difficulty of the HM instances right. At the moment the progression chain is broken at the PUG level, storing up problems for the future just as much as, if not more than, if nightmare modes are too easy. If we don't have a solid base of PUG raiders then raiding as a whole in this game will eventually die. If we don't have a solid cap of nightmare raiders then we won't get the proper PVE balance feedback for the devs or proper boss guides or proper class guides which are so much help to those lower down the chain. At the moment the nightmare raiding community that is left seems somewhat mollified by the new HM difficulty. Both PUG raiding and nightmare raiding would be critically endangered by a content break of any longer than 6 or 7 months.

 

In other words Bioware if we don't have at least one completely new raid by July this year and also sorting out of the issues with PUG raiding fairly promptly you will most likely kiss raiding goodbye in this game as an activity of any real scope. PUGs will completely give up in disgust at inability to complete content and poor loot (if they haven't already) thus taking out a main entry route into operations and a lot of higher level raiders will give up out of boredom (and I'm not just talking about nightmare raiders here but guild SM and lower-end HM raiders).

 

This is another reason why more openness about future plans is needed. At the moment we know that they are aiming for a new daily area on Ziost and the outfit designer at the end of April. That leaves two to three months as the critical period before they need to launch a new operation or most likely suffer the consequences detailed in the previous paragraph. That does not take into account nightmare mode Ravagers or Temple of Sacrifice and the timing is too tight to give me much confidence that they will actually do anything properly.

[FerkWork]

Hello,

Very interesting data! Would you happen to know the server breakdown of the progression so far? Even by sides would be interesting too see to. I'm curious as I'm on JC and there seems to be few doing serious progression (Many are probable not recording it in the server thread). I was speaking to a member of one of the 2 guilds according to this player that had beaten HM Master and Blaster on JC.

Edited February 20, 2015 by FerkWork

[Camelpockets]

This has probably already been said, but my only problem with the raids is how dependent some of these fights are on group composition. Difficulty is pretty good, but I think that for groups that can't swap roles/classes as freely, some mechanics should be slightly tweaked. But other than that im pretty happy about the current status of the raids.