Update: We have filled our Healer spot, and after having a full group up and running we are 6/6 Dxun HM. From a recruiting standpoint, while we have a full group up and running, we are always on the look out for good players, particularly DPS at this stage. Our main raid schedule is now locked in at Tuesday and Thursday at 9EST-12EST

What's a progression thread without salt and rustled jimmies

Having arguments about progression for a raid called "Nature of Progress" is high class meme material

As someone who was heavily involved in feedback to the devs on that fight both on PTS and Live, the devs were warned *multiple times* that the way the mechanic could be ignored by hydraulics combined with the aberration spawn timing and the hydraulics cooldown duration meant that teams would *only* bring in 8 Bounty Hunters. They were told this explicitly on PTS. They were told this explicitly on live. Devs were sent links to kill videos with 8 Bounty Hunters. So while I agree with the idea of a post Red Venom change let's see who clears it deal... I think it should be pointed out that the devs were given ample time to change it and it took until there were multiple guild kills on live to make the change. TLDR: I am interested to know how long the devs have been aware of this issue for Apex. If the community sees that all top guilds doing this until the fix is fine, then that's good enough for me. FC got World First, nothing changes that. I would assume that FC would be interested in also getting the first kill post-change to the fight, right?

I don't care about EU vs NA and AFAIK nobody else has since SNV. I think it's dope when any group kills bosses. There's like a handful of raiders who pull nim anymore nobody has time for goofy which continent is better stuff.

This strikes me as similar to NiM council where a dps would LOS calphayus behind a crystal to make her not drop fonts anywhere, which negated a pretty big part of boss placement. I know at the time, we looked down on teams using that (iirc HMD Magenta basically fell apart when it came out they did that)... That being said, the meta seems clearly different right now, and my question is: if this red venom panel timing is due to a bug that the patch put into the game (as I've heard apex is quite buggy) then I am more annoyed with the devs than anything else. Reminds me of NiM TFB final boss where the first kill was basically free bc the boss killed itself with enrage. Also, if basically every team pulling apex is doing the same thing, then it seems like the kill is valid. They full cleared, gg. Now it's just a countdown to time run.

LOL. We just came back so I don't think there's much of a reason for us to be brought up at this point in a prog thread. Everyone enjoy the raid and I hope by the time we get our full team up and running there are a good number of achievements in here

I'm not sure if you still are looking for a team to raid with, but <Death and Taxes> has returned and is actively recruiting! Message me on discord if you want to talk about it further (Colonelpumpy#6135).

We are going through current applications and have set up a heal and dps trial for the next lockout. As an update, we have locked in one of our raid nights, Tuesday. Once we finalize our main group, we will lock in the second raid night.

thank you for the quick response. I have all 3 tanks, and I have heard that all 3 are roughly fine to use for all content-- I know that in the past, some tanks were more ideal than others (NiM Brontes Sin tank, PT Tank on pre nerf HM Revan, etc) and I was wondering if it really mattered one way or the other in current meta. Before I left the game in 4.x I tanked all content so assume a baseline level of competence. I am willing to use any tank, but I won't lie I have more fun jugg tanking than I do sin tanking, etc.

This is going to be an odd question... I just came back, and getting an optimized tank set up and running will take a bit. Is there a rule of thumb of acceptable tank stats for the harder raid content in the game? Is it just a general "try and get the ratio close and optimize on the fly" or is there anything more specific?

Hi, you're literally wrong. It was proven all the way back in December, and if you want proof, after we quit, a birdie went through the game files for the fight and guess what, THERE IS A POSITIONAL BACKSTAB MECHANIC ATTACHED TO HK'S SNIPE. Know *** you are talking about pls. It's literally in the files for the fight. Literally the only way this is incorrect is if they SOMEHOW took that mechanic out of the fight when they nerfed it finally.

As I said in the post, 99.9% of the time it goes on only the healers. I have pre nerf revanchisted (weird phrasing) on multiple tank classes and have seen a snipe animation hit my tank.....two times in the grand total of.... dozens of kills, and before kills, numerous attempts? It's, with SOME VERY LIMITED exceptions a mechanic for healers to deal with EDIT: I just saw in another post that you figured out the answer to your own question basically making this post pointless, lol, keeping it for posterity sake

Decided to come out of forum retirement to help the community. HK-47 snipes if you are not facing him. If your back is turned, he will snipe you, based on, among other things, the aggro table. 99.9% of the time this just goes to healers. Here's how you avoid MOST snipes by HK: don't turn your back. YES, a number of healing abilities turn the body of the healer, but you can avoid MOST snipe damage by understanding this concept. This is not a red shirt theory where maybe it's position based. It absolutely is. Do not turn your back to HK in phase 1 floor one of Revan HM and you won't get sniped. If you get sniped anyway, then a healing GCD turned your character away from HK, simple. Go with that understanding, and you won't have issues. If Kak from DNT is still subbed he can confirm this, as it has been confirmed since December, same goes for Tefia of Zorz. 100% based on turning your back to HK. Enjoy

I've been co-signed by a TRE member and a progression raider at that. THREE MORE CO SIGNS BY TRE RAIDERS AND I CAN FINALLY BE PROUD OF MYSELF. FOURTH TRE MEMBER TO LIKE ME Bring the keyboard, not the warrior.

For Reference Other achievements claimed that couldn't fit: World 2nd Plaguehorn Server 32nd SM Nefra TRE First missed his cleanse on deathmark during Council without saying "M8" TRE 17th Buyer of Hateful Entity mask from a better guild Server 8th tank to kill the boss for the first time while still believing in himself (just check the magnet on the fridge, mom is proud)

It already should have ended the minute 204 MH + nerf was a reality, but it's hard for the thread to end when the OP is unsubbed and uninstalled. Can't wait to see this thread getting bumped when there's no NiM in 3.3 and no new raid til close to damned near Christmas. WE KILLED HM REVAN OCTOBER 27th 2015 WITH A COMP OF 4 MARAUDERS FROM TIBET AND DOUBLE JUGG TANKS WITH NO MH. IF THESE REAL GUILDS HAD ANY GRIT THEY WOULD HAVE DONE THIS.

That already happened, and the stick's name is Tenebras in DNT. Bamboo Stick Sin

You think trashketball making his signature "Bring the player, not the class" isn't elitist? Look at his forum signature. It looks like the back bumper of a PTA mom. MY KID GOT SERVER FOURTH REVAN HM AND HE DID IT WITH HIS SWELL FRIENDS THEY'RE BASICALLY THE SAME AS GODS. The false macho posturing in progression in this game just gets out of hand. Be proud of your kill. But that whole bit at the end is basically a backhanded comment to real progression guilds that feel like killing bosses in a prompt manner, you know, because they respect the time of the rest of the people in their raid guild.

So I've already uninstalled, but this post and your signature have been shown to me in passing and I think this is the time I go from gladly leaving the community with positive feelings to just wanting to burn this motherf***er to the ground. "Bring the player, not the class" You're literally almost 6 months late. We're talking probably not in world 20. In SWTOR terms, this is beyond the edge of relevance for content. The fight has been nerfed. The fight has been outgeared to full 198's on 6 million toons. The fight has been given gear that didn't exist on this tier at launch of content. There have been people who have killed this with marauders. There have been people who have killed it with 1 tank. There have been people who have killed it with 6 fingers bent at a 90 degree angle as Venus is in the seventh house and you forget to press Kinetic Ward for the fifth time on floor one of a fight that people who quit this game killed 5 times a week. Grats. You got the kill. Grats, you did it with your comp. "Bring the player not the class." Absolutely. It is killable in that state. But listing your comp like it was wildly trash? The best tank comp for Revan is PT/Sin, you had that. The heal comp was Merc/Op. Our main group was using that comp before we called it quits, and MANY OTHER GROUPS have. The DPS comp? If this was pre nerf, before 204 MH, before literally everyone and their brother in progression has Revanchist? Then I'd be pretty impressed. But you have 8 seconds of additional uptime for EVERY SET OF PURPLES ON FLOOR 3. YOUR DPS COMP DOES NOT MATTER AT THIS POINT. YOU COULD BRING 4 MADNESS SORCS, A BAMBOO STICK, A BUZZ LIGHTYEAR ACTION FIGURE AND CLICKER HEALERS TO KILL THE BOSS. "Bring the player, not the class" Absolutely. Show me how proud you are that your suboptimal comp cost your raid team months of progression and a pre nerf kill. "Bring the player, not the class." Because let's wait until post nerf to pump our chests out about our composition. "Bring the player, not the class," Or you can bring the players that can play any class. "Server Fourth HM Revan." We really out here claiming progression ranking past Server first at that level? We're really out here in these streets claiming glory and spoils because you think that once enough guilds that were skilled enough to kill **** early stopped raiding you might be able to take your spot next to Provectus and Exit Area as the best of the rest with the less of the less? Cool. You know, when Ambassadors got the kill with a suboptimal comp pre nerf fairly early on with admittedly lower DPS? They made a cool f**king strat and did what they had to in order to kill the boss. It was awesome. And you didn't see them high five themselves like children because they dared bring a non BH. This is just getting out of hand. Your guild didn't matter for your server, much less game-wide progression. You walk in and slam your post nerf achievement and proclaim "Bring the player, not the class" as if you've made a profound statement that the progression community can be transformed by. You know what actual progression guilds think of sub-optimal comps? Shame on the raider for asking his team to carry. Shame on the raid lead for letting it happen. Your raid composition is the equivalent of a singular player using blue augs and not using set bonuses when walking into NiM. There's no reason to applaud you. There's simply reason to ask if you need medical attention for slamming your head against the Revan wall for that long and finally breaking through. I've always respected EU progression guilds. I still do. Because that post and that sig? That doesn't belong to a progression guild member. Shouts out to TRE. RIP Thrax. RIP DILIH RIP SWTOR

Yeah this is the end of SWTOR for me. I wish everyone the best of luck in the future, whether they stay in this game or head to a different one. Progression was fun, the salt was always enjoyable, and many of you I really had a blast shooting the **** with over the past few years. Peace

Paradigm with the YUNG revan hm kill. GG

that's either a dumb bug or it's even worse and it's the intended nerf and if so that's *********** brainless.

so do the aberrations just spawn 8 and then not blow up, do they spawn four then spawn another four then overlap, what's the specific bug? Do 8 spawn every set and you have to do the mechanic 8 times instead of 4 for every set?

My main point on why I don't think the thread matters following 3.2 is because them nerfing HM fights confirms that the devs don't think the clearance rate is high enough. The point was to give devs as much info as possible and to see how the general community was handling the fights. I mean if people want to keep posting kills to 8/9/10 by all means I'll be happy for them, I just don't know if the thread will serve its original purpose anymore. Also, it should be noted that if 204 MHs drop from The Ziost Toborro-esque boss, regardless of nerfs, this thread doesn't matter anymore. Many of the NiM raiding community will quit, also Also, yeah, IDK why MB isn't being nerfed but Bulo still is? Makes me think they just don't know HOW best to nerf it