Action For The Ravager's Exploit

[Projawa]

Eric, what acts would classify a user as being an "egregious offender"? Spreading the exploit to other servers? Selling it for millions? Spamming chat with info on the exploit?

[KTap]

I don't disagree with punishing exploiters, but considering BioWare's past history of not doing so, which was basically encouragement for players to exploit, you should have given more warnings and less suspensions.

 

In other words, you created the problem by continually not doing anything about exploit after exploit, setting the precedent that exploiting is not only OK, but required to keep up, and then after 3 years of this you decide to come down hard on players.

 

Again, I'm fine with punishing exploiters, but you should have been consistent on it for the past three years, and since you weren't you should have stated that you failed to do so in the past, and use this opportunity as a chance to warn players not to do it anymore instead of going from "do whatever, we don't care" to "exploiters must be purged!" seems a rather extreme shift in policy all at once.

 

/tinfoilhat

 

They purposefully did not take action in the past, so people would get comfortable with breaking the ToS with no thought of repercussions. More people felt comfortable breaking the ToS with each new exploit.

 

Then, there was a mega exploit, so they let it take its course. Now, they could get everyone who was for exploiting in one fell swoop!

 

/tinfoilhat

 

But really, I'm hoping they take more action from now on, and this isn't just an isolated case of them punishing players

[TUXs]

I wonder if there will be any poetic irony... one of the people calling for lifetime bans or total gear loss, getting severely nailed accidentally because of a data glitch or human error inside Bioware.

 

I too hope this happens...I would absolutely revel in the irony.

[LordArtemis]

I don't celebrate the suspensions of others in this respect, even if they did deserve it (which is not for me to say, but I do not deride those that make such judgements).

 

As I said, I think it was unwise for Bioware to do nothing, and they have probably handled this the right way internally at least...look at the issue, discuss it at length, decide on the proper action.

 

I can't say with any amount of certainty that this has not been the norm, but if 3.0 was any indication I think more "seat of the pants" has been in play lately. Hopefully, if that is the case, this is an example of a new direction to deal with serious issues related to the game.

 

The communication is a good step. It should continue that way from here forward.

 

Hopefully some kind of reasonable review process can prevent this kind of situation from happening in the future.

 

They absolutely HAVE to reach some level of consistency moving forward. That much is vital IMO.

Edited January 29, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Darth_Wicked]

I too hope this happens...I would absolutely revel in the irony.

 

So... you take the side of those who thoroughly took advantage of the exploit, while the rest of us, who kept clean, should be accidentally punished...

 

Just because we hope Bioware makes EVERYONE abide by the ToS? Seriously?

[azudelphi]

So... you take the side of those who thoroughly took advantage of the exploit, while the rest of us, who kept clean, should be accidentally punished...

 

Just because we hope Bioware makes EVERYONE abide by the ToS? Seriously?

 

I think he is specifically referring to the minority who demand extreme punishment... like, 30 day bans, 90% credits taken away, first born child, etc for even doing the exploit once.

[hadoken]

I too hope this happens...I would absolutely revel in the irony.

 

The more ironic thing I expect to happen is some of the vocal 'punish them all' types actually were exploiters themselves hoping not to get caught.

 

I'm sure there's at least one of those out there

[Vapedleader]

Listen banning for 1-7 day for using the exploit ok i get it, but there are a few things you could have done to stop people from using the exploit. Eg close the affected op or make a note on the launcher say if you do this you will get banned. So I am a sub i pay my monthly amount, so with all the effort you put in to this banning your paying members if you would be as kind to go after the gold spammers and fix the lag issues and the bugs in the only 2 op that give us the coms for are 198 gear. Way to go after the people who pay to keep this game alive, thanks for showing us that you care more about people using something you broke ( exploit) then fixing issues that server have as in bugging ops gold spammers and VERY bad lag in the ops

[Darth_Wicked]

I think he is specifically referring to the minority who demand extreme punishment... like, 30 day bans, 90% credits taken away, first born child, etc for even doing the exploit once.

 

Kinda extreme to say the least, but even so, they presumably did no wrong by the ToS, unlike the ones who exploited and were proud of it.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Infernixx]

Well, the bans have hit my guild pretty hard. One day bans, so they're all playing WoW and getting drunk.

[azudelphi]

The more ironic thing I expect to happen is some of the vocal 'punish them all' types actually were exploiters themselves hoping not to get caught.

 

I'm sure there's at least one of those out there

 

Okay, now I think this would be truly ironic.

[TUXs]

So... you take the side of those who thoroughly took advantage of the exploit, while the rest of us, who kept clean, should be accidentally punished...

 

Just because we hope Bioware makes EVERYONE abide by the ToS? Seriously?

That's not what I said.

 

I side with those who enjoy the game and can see the bigger picture, over those who can only see blood and scream for extreme punishments.

 

I view this whole fiasco as insignificant given the Ultimate comms that dropped from old Ops and the lack of any attempt to quell it by Bioware. At one point, I sided with the extremists because I DESPISE cheating online...but looking at the whole situation, I realized it was a minor issue that I was taking too seriously.

[TUXs]

I think he is specifically referring to the minority who demand extreme punishment... like, 30 day bans, 90% credits taken away, first born child, etc for even doing the exploit once.

 

^^This.

[vennian]

I am disappointed. I FULLY EXPECTED them to also be slapped with a 6-month long forced legacy-title called "<name>, the exploiter".

 

Please fix this oversight of a bug BW.

[Darth_Wicked]

That's not what I said.

 

That's exactly what you said.

 

I side with those who enjoy the game and can see the bigger picture, over those who can only see blood and scream for extreme punishments.

 

The ToS exists for a reason.

 

I am not out for blood, especially seeing I know more than a couple of people who partook in the exploit, but that doesn't mean I want to see people who did NO WRONG AT ALL to be accidentally punished.

 

That's ludicrous to an extreme level to say the least.

 

It matters little if they want blood spilled in the street or not. They did no wrong at all.

 

I view this whole fiasco as insignificant given the Ultimate comms that dropped from old Ops and the lack of any attempt to quell it by Bioware. At one point, I sided with the extremists because I DESPISE cheating online...but looking at the whole situation, I realized it was a minor issue that I was taking too seriously.

 

One was working as intended last I checked. It was not an exploit.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Noghriwarrior]

"Exploit any bug in the Service to gain unfair advantage in the game and/or communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through the public posting) to any other user of the Service."

 

I just want to clarify that this is the sentence that makes everything black and white as far as whether you are cheating, breaking the rules, deserve to be banned......

 

What part of this is black and white ? what defines "service" or for that "unfair advantage". There is, hundreds of "bugs" in this game and how are we supposed to know if we are getting an unfair advantage. I realize that anyone who plays MMO's knows when they are abusing an exploit, but there are many people who were starwars fans that had this game as they're introduction to MMO's. I am one of those people.

 

I think a lot of people could benefit from Bioware issuing statements when they have a bug/exploit like this saying "We can't fix it now, but if you do this you will be punished" and a significant amount of the populace would immediately stop. They did not address this until months after they knew it was happening in a public way, making people who don't know about bug/exploits and how to interact with them questioning whether or not what they were doing was an actual violation of the TOS or something that happens in an MMO. Hiding behind the TOS FOR MONTHS instead of proactively issuing a statement upon release of 3.0 (they knew about this during PTS) is irresponsible, gives people an opportunity to justify the exploit, and will lead to this exact scenario every time. I would like to believe that most people would stop doing something if the authority in charge said to stop, we weren't given that chance....just a reminder that we should be living by the vague and ill defined statute in the Tos regarding exploits. This was bigger then your average bug and if they got ahead of it when they knew about it a lot of the fallout would have been minimized.

[LordArtemis]

Come on....the folks that exploited and then BRAGGED about it, dared Bioware to do something....yea, I think they most certainly deserved to get knocked down a few pegs.

 

We hold Bioware to the flames for that kind of arrogance, and have clearly done so in the past....there is no reason we should not hold each other to that same standard IMO.

 

No matter what is said this is still their house. They have been VERY gracious with me over the past few days though I have been open with my biting criticism of Bioware's management staff. They could have sanctioned me at any moment but they seem to have chosen not to do so...that demonstrates an amazing level of patience with me IMO.

 

Frankly they could have banned me for any of it, and rightly so. I openly disrespected them in their own house, and if they chose to ban me for it I would accept that.

Edited January 29, 2015 by LordArtemis

[TUXs]

It matters little if they want blood spilled in the street or not. They did no wrong at all.

Maybe not to you but it does to me. This game is a community and not everything can simply be black or white. I believe a taste of their own "justice" might make them a little less likely to clamor for hangings next time someone exceeds the speed limit by 1 mph.

 

I'm not justifying any cheating...but I also don't excuse extreme and radical punishment either. Keep this in proper perspective...no matter which side you're on.

[DOHboy]

That's not what I said.

 

I side with those who enjoy the game and can see the bigger picture, over those who can only see blood and scream for extreme punishments.

 

I view this whole fiasco as insignificant given the Ultimate comms that dropped from old Ops and the lack of any attempt to quell it by Bioware. At one point, I sided with the extremists because I DESPISE cheating online...but looking at the whole situation, I realized it was a minor issue that I was taking too seriously.

 

the difference is, going into the ops you had no way of knowing they were going to have paid you "extra" for doing the old operations, and even then it was just rewarding you more for doing something. But at least you did the content. With the ravegers all you had to do was just join a group and suddenly BIS loot! do you not see the difference?

 

Using something the way it was intended to function but gives out excessive or alternative rewards (i.e use the machine, beat the boss) is not exploiting the system. As you cannot tell if it is a "bug" or not (drop rates, number of drops, etc). But getting a reward for doing nothing, and knowing full well that you did not earn that reward in any way is.

[TUXs]

the difference is, going into the ops you had no way of knowing they were going to have paid you "extra" for doing the old operations, and even then it was just rewarding you more for doing something. But at least you did the content. With the ravegers all you had to do was just join a group and suddenly BIS loot! do you not see the difference?

 

Using something the way it was intended to function but gives out excessive or alternative rewards (i.e use the machine, beat the boss) is not exploiting the system. As you cannot tell if it is a "bug" or not (drop rates, number of drops, etc). But getting a reward for doing nothing, and knowing full well that you did not earn that reward in any way is.

Oh bull **** lol!

 

The rewards were stated ahead of time, that's why there were PuG groups forming non-stop for DF/DP. Bioware went out of their way to remove every one of your Ultimate/Elite comms prior to 3.0 hitting...there is absolutely zero way you can convince me that they intended for Ultimate's to drop from the old Ops. Claiming that it could have been viewed as OK is absolute bunk...NOBODY honestly didn't see that as a huge oversight. NOBODY!

 

BOTH of these were exploits imo, and very VERY clearly so.

[Darth_Wicked]

Maybe not to you but it does to me. This game is a community and not everything can simply be black or white. I believe a taste of their own "justice" might make them a little less likely to clamor for hangings next time someone exceeds the speed limit by 1 mph.

 

In other words, as stated earlier, you do hope they get punished "accidentally", regardless of the fact they did no wrong by the ToS.

 

Just because they were more vocal than most, which is something both you and me can be accused of.

 

Again, makes little to no sense.

 

I'm not justifying any cheating...but I also don't excuse extreme and radical punishment either. Keep this in proper perspective...no matter which side you're on.

 

No.

 

You are just hoping, as stated above, people get punished for being vocal about something, after Bioware chose to ignore rampant exploits throughout the last three years.

 

It matters little they chose NOT to partake in the exploit themselves.

 

I take issue with people going on and on about the slot machine, but I don't exactly want to see them banned or suspended just because I disagree with them. It's silly.

[ELRunninW]

So, who can not post anymore?

[Neoforcer]

The problem is they still allow people to cheat else were until they stop all cheating i will still be disappointed in Bioware's actions.

[DOHboy]

Maybe not to you but it does to me. This game is a community and not everything can simply be black or white. I believe a taste of their own "justice" might make them a little less likely to clamor for hangings next time someone exceeds the speed limit by 1 mph.

 

I'm not justifying any cheating...but I also don't excuse extreme and radical punishment either. Keep this in proper perspective...no matter which side you're on.

 

i think the punishments were on the reasonable side. depending on the severity. I would have proposed (if my opinion mattered) a one or two days for every exploit on a sliding scale. If you openly advertised it, bragged about it. or actively looked for it, the more you "exploited" the stricter the punishment.

 

that would also include as much as possible a reasonable loss of gear and/or credits with the level of the exploit. If you sold the lockout and profited in other ways, an appropriate loss of credits would be acceptable. If you RE'd the scematic and sold a few dozen on the GTN, loss of all those and more credits would be appropriate since. But you did the exploit multiple times for mats/schematics, sold them for millions of credits, used those credits to buy a walker for example. , you lose the walker, and lose the credits (i.e pay the game back).

[Keypek]

I don't know, a lot of people got a bunch of 198 BiS toons and they only have to not play the game for 24 hours and they get to keep the gear. Gratz to them, kinda wish I had done it now.