Lienwyn Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) Seriously. Every PvP match I've entered my brother is doing **** tons more DPS than I am, and gets just as much protection points as I do. Jedi Knights remind me of Warriors from World of Warcraft...except a pocket healer doesn't do **** I'm still gonna be CCed to living hell and cannot do jack against an enemy. I'm rerolling, Bioware couldn't balance single player games, same problem is happening here. Now if we actually had damage meters so I can check what happens if we're smacking stationary mobs we could find out if Knight actually sucks or not but -_- Edited December 25, 2011 by Lienwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastor Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 That grass over there, it looks greener, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lienwyn Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 That grass over there, it looks greener, doesn't it? I ignored the doomcrying going on the Jedi Knight forums for a long time since beta; however, it recently hit me today as my brother and I were pvping for a good 3-4 hours and trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. Then again, doubt from your comment that you have any idea of what competitive gaming or power gaming is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastor Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 No, I understand. And, to be fair, your concerns may be perfectly legitimate. I don't have experience with either of those classes. But, it seems a bit early to be making threads about how one class is better than another. This has been going on ever since there were classes to be chosen from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lienwyn Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 No, I understand. And, to be fair, your concerns may be perfectly legitimate. I don't have experience with either of those classes. But, it seems a bit early to be making threads about how one class is better than another. This has been going on ever since there were classes to be chosen from. No, if you followed the Knight tank vs Commando tank episode for the past few months, it's been pretty blatantly obvious by both sides that Commando was kicking the **** out of the Knight tank for a VERY long time. The Knight apparently lasts a bit longer (ability to take more damage) but deals less damage (much less) and has a huge problem with holding thread due to most mobs being ranged and Knight being melee. Meh, I'll reroll, wait till I see Knight becoming FOTM. I wish the balance issues weren't as obvious as they were though. In PvP it's PAINFULLY obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayshadow Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) Seriously. Every PvP match I've entered my brother is doing **** tons more DPS than I am, and gets just as much protection points as I do. Jedi Knights remind me of Warriors from World of Warcraft...except a pocket healer doesn't do **** I'm still gonna be CCed to living hell and cannot do jack against an enemy. I'm rerolling, Bioware couldn't balance single player games, same problem is happening here. Now if we actually had damage meters so I can check what happens if we're smacking stationary mobs we could find out if Knight actually sucks or not but -_- You forgot to mention that in addition they can attack from range and have their own force leap-ish move (Charge). Not to mention they can handle groups without micromanaging every attack. There really is no reason to be a melee tank unless you like a challenge, group alot and only intend to PvE. By the way, Commando is not a tank. They are DPS/Healer. Vanguard has the trooper tanking option. Edited December 25, 2011 by Dayshadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lienwyn Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 You forgot to mention that in addition they can attack from range and have their own force leap-ish move (Charge). Not to mention they can handle groups without micromanaging every attack. There really is no reason to be a melee tank unless you like a challenge, group alot and only intend to PvE. By the way, Commando is not a tank. They are DPS/Healer. Vanguard has the trooper tanking option. Fixed, thanks. Bioware, start balancing your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oholyknight Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Well I am not going to say for sure which is better, because I havent played a trooper to 46 yet. but I have played a JK tank to 46 and it sucks. I keep every attack I have on cool down and I have at level gear. I can not hold aggro off dps three levels below me. I have to keep taunting even after I established aggro alone for 10 secs. and aoe aggro...forget it. a bird flying bye dropping a bomb could pull aggro off me. I am a well experienced tank from other games and find this very annoying. I work my tail off and get no results. I hang on hoping things will balance out at 50 but my skill tree is full and I only have one ability that gives threat...and get this, it has a minute cool down. Seriously if the game doesnt need tanks then say so, because it will be hard to find anyone willing to look dumb, just because of the balance. If changing forms is suppose to be the threat factor then obvisouly 50% isnt near enough. I would have never guessed that the Star Wars game would have made the Jedi Knight the lowest of the classes. Doesnt really fit the lore imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lienwyn Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 And of course threads where ppl actually agree with each other get buried underneath the mass of QQ and fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unaki Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I just wanna know, have you guys gotten to the 30+ ranges? Because Guardians balance out with Vanguards. (The tanks are Vanguards, not commandos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) It gets fun past 35-36-ish. It gets *real* fun in mid-late 40s, and it gets truly fun at 50. Defense/Vigilance hybrid (up to Unremitting) is nigh-unstoppable. You have enough CC and interrupts to make them sweat blood, you have decent single-target damage and moderately powerful, but rather potent bursts (our "execute" move, Dispatch is a lot of fun). You also have amazing, and, more importantly, practical mobility. I'm not even mentioning being extremely hard to kill, and making your pet healer nigh-invincible with Guard and taunts. Troopers may be strong right now, but the Guardian, if played right, is downright amazing. It just needs time to bloom and to get used to (higher skill-cap, if you will). Edited December 25, 2011 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxXSlaynXxX Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Fixed, thanks. Bioware, start balancing your game. It's been out 5 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCy Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 My guardian is 37. Tonight I was doing PvP with a pocket healing scoundrel. It was amazing. I was pretty much invincible, earning 7-8 medals on average per match. The two of us were able to hold off objects from groups of attackers long enough to allow for reinforcements to show up, and then live through it all. Low levels the class is pretty bad. Post 35 it starts to shine, especially if you go full defense. In PvE I use Kira as my companion and let her do all the damage. I kill gold stars and end up with 80%+ HP left. I can even solo some champion mobs... Sadly, I'm sure part of that is because you also REALLY start to outlevel content in your 30s. Additionally, I've yet to have a single issue tanking anything. Including upwards of 8 gold mobs at once for a heroic quest in Aldaaran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polly_Pocket Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I'm 43 at the moment and have no issues holding threat. Maybe my dps sucks? Picking up ranged mobs is not difficult as long as your group focus fires 1 target. If someone starts aoe'ing a large pack then you're SoL once you're AoE taunt wears off. Moral of the story? Tell your DPS not to AoE. Regarding PvP, well, PvP is ridiculously unbalanced right now, so I'm reserving my judgment. I'll give them a bit of time to work on that, but unless something is done to improve melee effectiveness I'll likely be done myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oholyknight Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I'm 43 at the moment and have no issues holding threat. Maybe my dps sucks? Picking up ranged mobs is not difficult as long as your group focus fires 1 target. If someone starts aoe'ing a large pack then you're SoL once you're AoE taunt wears off. Moral of the story? Tell your DPS not to AoE. Regarding PvP, well, PvP is ridiculously unbalanced right now, so I'm reserving my judgment. I'll give them a bit of time to work on that, but unless something is done to improve melee effectiveness I'll likely be done myself. Then you are not doing what a tank does and must know nothing of what a tank expects, the dps should be able to go full out, or raid enrage timers will never be met. If they are then its to easy of a boss. Tanking is---pull, hold, control and keep everyone out of harms way. Otherwise, you are not a tank, you are just a slacker on the dps meter. If that is what tanking is meant to be in TOR then, no thanks. Ill go dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarheartZero Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Then you are not doing what a tank does and must know nothing of what a tank expects, the dps should be able to go full out, or raid enrage timers will never be met. If they are then its to easy of a boss. Tanking is---pull, hold, control and keep everyone out of harms way. Otherwise, you are not a tank, you are just a slacker on the dps meter. If that is what tanking is meant to be in TOR then, no thanks. Ill go dps. You should probably go dps then or head back to WOW for their game mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oholyknight Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 You should probably go dps then or head back to WOW for their game mechanics. I would make another comment to you, but your statement says enough. I am sure your healers will let you know what you are worth, if you can find any to run with you. Me, I take care of my healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarheartZero Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) I would make another comment to you, but your statement says enough. I am sure your healers will let you know what you are worth, if you can find any to run with you. Me, I take care of my healers. I'm sure you do take care of your healers considering the amount of damage you must take by tanking like it's WOW. Funny though, I have no issues and yet I don't have healers, I have heals/dps. But Yeah I guess you need full time heals. Edited December 25, 2011 by WarheartZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oholyknight Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I'm sure you do take care of your healers considering the amount of damage you must take by tanking like it's WOW. Funny though, I have no issues and yet I don't have healers, I have heals/dps. But Yeah I guess you need full time heals. So i see your point, no need to have defined classes lets all just go free for all, and do a tank spec if you just want to take forever to kill something. But the benefit is, you get to call yourself a tank...lol. There are defined names to trees for a reason if that reason doesnt exist, it isnt the players fault. So, I guess they should be called taunt instead of tank. What a wonderful idea, make a tree unrewarding and not needed. I guess its good for forums so people can fuss about I like earning my way or I like everyone doing my job for me. But hey, free for all sounds fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rankaze Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 So you're saying that I, on my Gunslinger, should be able to stand there and spam Thermal Grenade and Sweeping Gunfire nonstop in an AoE situation with absolutely no mindfulness of how much threat I am generating on that entire pack of mobs? Because I promise you, with *any* tank I've met so far, if I do that, I'm going to be taking fire real fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oholyknight Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) So you're saying that I, on my Gunslinger, should be able to stand there and spam Thermal Grenade and Sweeping Gunfire nonstop in an AoE situation with absolutely no mindfulness of how much threat I am generating on that entire pack of mobs? Because I promise you, with *any* tank I've met so far, if I do that, I'm going to be taking fire real fast. What I am saying is I am a skilled tank and that the mechanic here is for those who are not and need everyone to do their job for them, and if it fails then they can blame others. Why is a tank having the highest threat a new idea to you guys? That is our job...otherwise why have a tanking class, spec or gear. I dont mind some cc and dont mind dps picking off trash but to constantly having to taunt just to hold is silly, that makes me less able to pay attention to all aspects of the event and keep grp safe. Once again, news flash....a tanks job is to take the damage and protect the grp, period. Edited December 25, 2011 by oholyknight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oholyknight Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 By the way if you are not a Jedi Knight tank and atleast level 46 and have cleared everything up to your level...then you have nothing to say, simply because you have no bases to say it. Furthermore, its not about just pvp or leveling or flashpoints. I am a raider I tank things that one shot other members of the grp. Again, my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merced Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) I actually find any comment asking you politely to return to WoW to be incredibly valid given your propensity for ad hominem and unabashed QQ. The fact of the matter is that you have yet to see end game content, you don't know what, or even if there are enrage timers and sit here telling us about how you need this and that to defeat it. I'm astonished really. All of things you're crying about are things vanilla WoW warriors had issues with and guess what? MC got cleared, nerds got loot, and guilds survived. Edited December 25, 2011 by Merced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anedorivan Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 It's been out 5 days. And some of us have been playing for nearly 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domiinick Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Not to be rude OP, but if you're going to compare to an AOE ranged tank, then yeah, he's gonna do more damage than you. I don't think Guardian is for you. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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