ChroniKill Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) The problem with the healing is that it's worthless. 90% of the fight you'll be on full health (or at least 90%+) in any case, so your 1000 hps isn't doing anything. I think when I tried this on Bulo HM my eHPS was about 44%, meaning about 420hps effective. I get that in lighting without dot heals. When it matters, your important heal is only as good as the same one available to lightning. The thing that's really thrown the rotation out is the reduction in lightning channel. A better option would be to change the reduced permanent channel to be a proc from Leech. When you use Leech, you get a 1.5s lightning channel proc (like lightning used to get in 2.x). A buff to wrath would then give lightning strike some real purpose again and up the damage per GCD to higher than lightning. Dot heals should be reduced to compensate for this obviously, but I think that's fair. Hopefully that would help line everything back up a little better. Leech would sometimes need to be delayed (I think, haven't looked at it in detail), but it would be less clunky and would help with dot rotation and uptime. Unfortunately madness is a strange spec. It pulls awesome numbers in AoE fights thanks to dot spread, meaning that the dots can't be touched as it would break AoE. However single target is way too weak to be competitive in a raid environment. All of the above is PvE only, I have no idea about PvP as I can't stand it. Edited February 9, 2015 by ChroniKill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudzDeven Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Pre-3.0, Madness/Balance were far superior to Lightning/Telekinetics. Let L/T have their time. Jeez. The problem is that the devs rationalized the whole new skill system by saying that it made it easier to balance classes and specs and that it got rid of the sense of false choice people had when creating builds prior to 3.0. Neither of those is true currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koarria Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Look at leaderboard and you would agree with me, Sorcerers are overpowered. Only Powertech + Vanguard and Assassin + Shadows do better. Stop complaining, and know you're class should be nerfed. REALLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatEvilDude Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Those of us who play PvE and not just PvP disagree with you, and any parse data could tell you that. Don't look at the game from only one side. I will agree, our durability currently is exceptional, which makes us excellent candidates for Ranked PvP. However this game does not revolve entirely around ranked PvP and thus the game should not be balanced entirely around ranked. If you are seeing high damage numbers in ranked, it is due to the fact that the sages are living long enough to put out solid damage. However, this does not change the fact that (in terms of PvE) they are out classed in every single way by Telekinetics, as well as every other sustained spec currently. (Yes Yes, I know melee is at a disadvantage, and that it may outperform melee in some fights, but I'm talking overall.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hichitsuki-hime Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Look at leaderboard and you would agree with me, Sorcerers are overpowered. Only Powertech + Vanguard and Assassin + Shadows do better. Stop complaining, and know you're class should be nerfed. REALLY seriously? show a single boss without adds where sage balance can out-DPS TK, or actually any sustained DPS spec please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citruzz Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Look at leaderboard and you would agree with me, Sorcerers are overpowered. Only Powertech + Vanguard and Assassin + Shadows do better. Stop complaining, and know you're class should be nerfed. REALLY please, don't comparing multitarget dps vs. single target dps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I like Madness how it is, in both pve and pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLaaNie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You people use "right now" way too damn much. I'm going to have to make a "right now" topic in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myragoeshappy Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Look at leaderboard and you would agree with me, Sorcerers are overpowered. Only Powertech + Vanguard and Assassin + Shadows do better. Stop complaining, and know you're class should be nerfed. REALLY I'm not the best sorc dps so far but i can play it good enough for hm this is single Target dps (Lightning) this is with some adds (still Lightning) and this is the discipline we are talking in this thread The AoE-Dps from a Sorc is realy strong, but the single target dps from our sustained DpS spec is the worst atm I say nothing when they nerf the dps output from Lightning, but when they're doing this, they need to buff the Madness/Balance tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citruzz Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'm not the best sorc dps so far but i can play it good enough for hm this is single Target dps (Lightning) this is with some adds (still Lightning) and this is the discipline we are talking in this thread The AoE-Dps from a Sorc is realy strong, but the single target dps from our sustained DpS spec is the worst atm I say nothing when they nerf the dps output from Lightning, but when they're doing this, they need to buff the Madness/Balance tree single target dummy dps vs. single target raid dps is even not comparable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myragoeshappy Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 single target dummy dps vs. single target raid dps is even not comparable the 2 parses for single target where both on the dummy i just can't put 3 dummys next to each other to do an aoe dummy parse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citruzz Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 veijel aka ktap got a pretty nice single target dps at bulo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKurt Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Those sages/sorcs on the leader board are using TK/Lightning, NOT Balance/Madness, which is the lowest parsing spec in the game. Balance/Madness has been NERFED TOO FAR... there is NO BALANCE. Edited February 24, 2015 by DarthKurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galothor Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Those high ranking sorcs and sages are healers (at least in solo Q). Sorc dps is actually pretty crappy in solo Q. You take more damage than any other class. Got no real mitigation. And are basically completely shut down damage wise when you are being focused. Very much like mercs, and snipers this looks a bit different in team ranked as you will have tank and heal to support you and TS will allow you to coordinate much better. So in 4s you might do quite well, but in solo Q it's just horrible in both dps specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeSaber Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Sorcs are awesome, but so are the other classes. It all depends on how well player can react in the raid or pvp. For example I know many people who parse ****loads on dummy and yet when it comes to ops they suck. I really would love to see madness boosted, I was always playing madness before, but now im always playing Lightning and I rly like it. And Citruz from what I see on bulo fight is tha tmost sorcs are cheating there using force storm on adds and so on. Veijel did rly good dps thou. BUt most of the other sorcs just farmed numbers on adds Next time im on Bulo ill try to push harder. Btw it would be rly nice if dps was sorted by how much you made on actual boss, that would change leaderboards a lot Edited February 24, 2015 by SpikeSaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annoyed Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 so I think almost every viewpoint has been posted here.... and really people could keep posting more but what I really think we all want to know is, what does Bioware think they need to do? is it working they way they want it to? or do they want to change it but not anytime soon? or are they going to change it and the next month or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaowZedong Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Those sages/sorcs on the leader board are using TK/Lightning, NOT Balance/Madness, which is the lowest parsing spec in the game. Balance/Madness has been NERFED TOO FAR... there is NO BALANCE. No.... Many sorcs experimented with Lightning (and Sages with TK) in pre-season, most have gone back to Madness because it's just way stronger in solo queue. In group queue it's different: sorc is basically the only class with two good DPS specs (well, one good and one hugely overpowered) so you respec to match whatever comp and strat your team is going with. I still occasionally play my Sage in TK, it's nice that it's different and viable but I can do far more damage and survive better as Balance, stop paying attention to dummy parses (even in PvE "dummy parse heroes" are scrubs). TK has almost perfect mobility now and that's really nice but that's just nowhere near what Balance has. The problem with PvE is that BioWare made Madness/Balance into a sustained AoE spec and there's nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately their PvE content is all the same formulaic garbage they've been copying from wherever (WoW, I'm told) where you always want sustained single-target damage on the boss and burst AoE on the adds, so for PvE players sustained AoE damage is a solution in search of a problem. Edited February 25, 2015 by MiaowZedong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudien Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 In PvP, the sorc is the best class atm, none can be compared to them, 1000k dps and 700k heal in a single wz is to much for any other clases lol. Proly a Jugger can be compared or a AP pt .... but sorcs are op'ed in any dps spec atm (in pvp). Wz wins depends on how many sorcs/sins are in your grp right now ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ycoga Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 In PvP, the sorc is the best class atm, none can be compared to them, 1000k dps and 700k heal in a single wz is to much for any other clases lol. Proly a Jugger can be compared or a AP pt .... but sorcs are op'ed in any dps spec atm (in pvp). Wz wins depends on how many sorcs/sins are in your grp right now ...... What rubbish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatEvilDude Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The problem with PvE is that BioWare made Madness/Balance into a sustained AoE spec and there's nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately their PvE content is all the same formulaic garbage they've been copying from wherever (WoW, I'm told) where you always want sustained single-target damage on the boss and burst AoE on the adds, so for PvE players sustained AoE damage is a solution in search of a problem. This. This is why Balance/Madness is only usable in PvP at the moment, and with the single target nerf incoming to Telekinetics/Lightning it is looking increasingly similar for that spec, despite the fact that they will keep their AoE burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snean Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 we know that developers play for BH. 1st they totaly destroy madness not they neft lighting. all reroll to merc now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myragoeshappy Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 we know that developers play for BH. 1st they totaly destroy madness not they neft lighting. all reroll to merc now. just asking why should someone, who loves the sorc, reroll to a merc? i know, merc does more dps in IO, but only @ single target bosses (or bosses where you have to stand still). a good sorc does just a little bit less dps then a merc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKurt Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Would taking the 25% gimp off of Force Lightning do anything drastic? Or incorporating Leach into Wrath? Yeah right, they haven't balanced ****. Madness/Balance is WORTHLESS. Sad, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKurt Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 i quit my sub today - tk/lightning is no alternative for me. Agree +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKurt Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 we know that developers play for BH. 1st they totaly destroy madness not they neft lighting. all reroll to merc now. Agree +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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