1. Force Lightning is not an AoE, but rather the equivalent of Telekinetic Throw. Also, Force Storm (also known as Forcequake) is our AoE and is absolutely useless to stop a node or door cap, since the changes in 3.X. 2. In PvP, the fights typically aren't sustained enough to warrant any significant force management. (Note that they still can be, but it just isn't likely) Typically what will happen is either A. You will die. or B. The enemies around you will die. Which will give you the opportunity to regen force points at that time. 3. In PvE (I know its not OP's question, but originally he left it vague) Force Management as a Balance Sage/Madness Sorc DOES result in a pretty heavily force negative rotation. The issue lies with the set bonus, and the change from Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning and Lightning Strike/Disturbance to TT/FL & Lightning Bolt/Telekinetic Burst. What they should do is simply add a perk to the Balance/Madness tree that does the same effect as the set bonus, but for Disturbance/Lightning Strike only.

I AM EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok. That said, when I play a strike fighter, what I notice is that the secondary abilities are too difficult get off without being shut down, and a lack of speed (maneuverability is fine) that makes them easy targets for gunships/scouts. My vote would be to increase the speed (not quite to Scout Level, but significantly). It would also significantly reduce the lockout & lock on time of missiles and torpedoes. They do good damage, provided they can actually hit, but it is near impossible to get them off in the first place, and most ships just dodge it anyways. So in order for these ships to be viable the secondaries are going to need some serious buffing. Also: Just a small request, give Interdiction Missiles to the Pike/Quell. That ship is designed to be a missile boat, and they would probably serve an excellent purpose there. They make more sense there than on a T3 Gunship. Point of note: I am primarily a scout pilot here, but I also enjoy gunships. Currently, I only fly a strike fighter against teams of new players for the challenge. Thank you Bioware for noticing our GSF community. We appreciate it.

The point I was making was this. For the original poster, who isn't looking at running hardcore progression, Balance/Madness will be just fine with him and be perfectly viable. I wasn't being disingenuous, I am legitimately attempting to try and full clear with Balance/Madness, and the fact that I was able to clear Bulo HM with it, while doesn't prove its perfectly viable for the hardest content in Endgame, certainly proves its more than viable enough to clear all the SM content which was the point of the post.

I'm parsing just over 4k w/it in practice, which was certainly enough to kill Bulo, which is where my guild is at this point. Regardless until I become a liability I'm going to continue using it.

My advice is to play the spec you like and make it viable (even if it's not). I do HM progression on a Balance sage and most people call me crazy, until I outparse half the raid group. The key to doing well in PvP and ops is understanding your spec and using it to its best potential. While Lightning/Telekinetics is the better spec on paper (higher DPS, more burst, more mobility), the actual DPS put out by the spec depends on the person playing it. I'm alright with Telekinetics but I am much better with Balance, and while I parse almost the same with both specs, I can survive better, follow mechanics better, and kite better with Balance, because that is what I'm used to. And frankly I love the spec. Sorry for the story, folks. I thought it relevant.

Yea. I'm strange I know. I use both specs, but I consistantly pull higher numbers with balance on pretty much any fight despite using telekinetics to the point where I'm now comfortable with it. I've been using balance since 1.5 and don't plan to stop even with all the nerfs to it. It's my favorite spec so I decided to make it viable. Call me crazy but I still love it, even if it needs help.

In our defense we had it to 8% pre-nerf and the nerf just helped us push it over the hump.

Aeternum Ascension downed Bulo tonight. Proof (w/time stamp)

Music Here, I would like to nominate Lauri and Shredirat for "ace" reputation, since their names were not mentioned in previous posts.

The nerfs that Sorcerers/Sages experienced are primarily damaging towards end game-progression. They consisted primarily as a nerf to raw damage potential, through Force Storm/Quake and through the procs that Lightning/Telekinetic received in their tree. However, that said, Sorcs/Sages are probably the best class to solo content with in the entire game. The reasoning comes from the large amount of mobility present within the spec, and amazing off healing (or Main Healing for Seer/Corruption spec) potential particularly in the Balance/Madness DPS spec. For that spec alone, they have Force Serenity/Force Leech which upon critting at maximum level can heal for approximately 10-11k health. Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation frequently critical heals for about 12-18k health (provided you take the 30% buff to it in your utility tree). On top of that, this character can receive healing from Static Barrier/Force Armor (with utility), has a HoT w/6 second cooldown, and a spammable heal. In addition, DoT ticks from Balance/Madness spec additionally restore health, and Force in Balance/Death Field will also heal for 10% life per target they hit. This gives amazing durability to a Madness Sorc/Balance Sage soloing content. However you mentioned interest in Lightning spec so I will focus time there. Lightning spec retains the off healing from Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation, the 6s HoT, the spammable self heal, and the healing from Static Barrier. In addition, the mobility of Lightning far exceeds any other ranged class currently. Use of Force Speed will provide two instant casts of Lightning Strike or Lightning Bolt depending on your level, which can be used on the move. There are a number of different moves in the spec that can be used while moving the exception being Crushing Darkness which will require standing still for just 1.5seconds. Kiting enemies around is superb for avoiding damage, particularly from melee based enemies. In that way Lightning Sorcs excel at soloing content. Healers are also excellent at soloing. Run with a tank companion and keep them alive, and although slow, should allow you to solo just about any content available to you. Hope this helps.

I don't think you would want 2 old, 4 new anyways, because the 2 pc old set bonus is pretty much the same as the 4 new set bonus correct? I'll try out the 180 set bonus, at least until I can get a group to run through NiM DF/DP so I can pick up the 186. Thanks.

Actually I was about to ask this myself. I have a 192 Set bonus, and a 180 set bonus I can use. I've parsed a bit but haven't noticed a significant difference. In actual fights (I haven't had a chance to try it yet) is the 180 set bonus going to be a DPS gain over the 192 set bonus? (Especially focused on Balance spec here)

This. This is why Balance/Madness is only usable in PvP at the moment, and with the single target nerf incoming to Telekinetics/Lightning it is looking increasingly similar for that spec, despite the fact that they will keep their AoE burst.

<Inserts Shameless plug for Begeren Colony GSF Scene> That is all.

About GSF: It pops from about 1pm to around 11pm on weeknights (later on weekends). Its a small, relatively tight knit group of pilots who enjoy flying against each other. If you are into GSF (a couple of things to note): I recommend joining our chat channel /Gsf, as you will almost always find either good advice or people to fly with. Hit me up in game if you want to group up, I'm always looking for people to fly with, and so are many of the other people in that channel. An imperial guild <Sith Praxium> brings premades on Sundays at 8 pm, and you will have to fight good pilots if you are queueing rep side. (Its a lot of fun to face them if you fly a lot) Generally, we try to be courteous to each other and avoid, putting turrets/mines on Capital Ship/Spawns during Team Death Matches and avoid 3 capping (unless you are losing). The population on the server isn't amazing, so everything we can do to gain and keep new pilots we feel is time well spent.

Ok parsed w/ my old 180 set bonus on my Sorc last night. I have 192 4pc on my Sage. Really annoyed about the consistent 200 DPS difference between the two. Bioware you claim to be not imperial balanced. Prove it. Fix our set bonus on for the Republic Side.

Aeternum Ascension downed HM Malaphar tonight. Proof

Those of us who play PvE and not just PvP disagree with you, and any parse data could tell you that. Don't look at the game from only one side. I will agree, our durability currently is exceptional, which makes us excellent candidates for Ranked PvP. However this game does not revolve entirely around ranked PvP and thus the game should not be balanced entirely around ranked. If you are seeing high damage numbers in ranked, it is due to the fact that the sages are living long enough to put out solid damage. However, this does not change the fact that (in terms of PvE) they are out classed in every single way by Telekinetics, as well as every other sustained spec currently. (Yes Yes, I know melee is at a disadvantage, and that it may outperform melee in some fights, but I'm talking overall.)

You know... it could be your server, because on mine, they definitely have their issues but so do imp teams, its fairly well balanced here. Pubs in general, with the exception of all the pub only glitches that have come our way are generally pretty competent.

Music here, I'll queue when I can, which is pretty sporadic. Also: Mallo how much you paying

<Aeternum Ascension> downed HM Sparky tonight. Proof

Thanks for your response. Your comments are spot on with what I think should be the case with the class. As far as mobility is concerned, I think the spec is perfectly fine where it is mobility wise, provided they give us a reason to use our Wrath/Presence of Mind procs, which was the real cause of our mobility in previous 2.x patches. I don't think that having that would be overpowered, but right where it should be. I do however think our heals need to be turned down just a touch, because right now my heals are competitive with some healers in arenas and neither I nor other specs want to see that happen.

2. The problem with the other abilities on the move is that 2 of them are DoT's, 1 of them spreads the DoT's and for the most part that fluff damage. In order to effectively burn a healer you need to use Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning. 3. Just because it was in 2.10 and not in 3.0 doesn't mean its a bad thing. I don't hate balance right now, I just feel we are overpowered durability wise and underpowered DPS wise, I think reverting it would be a good idea because it would effectively hit 2 birds with 1 stone, and it wouldn't be outlandish because it had been tested w/previous patches. The only other thing I would suggest reverting would be to move Rippling Force/Lightning Burns back to Disturbance/Lightning Strike, because it effectively places a DoT on it. Part of the reason why it is more beneficial to avoid using Disturbance/LS is because you get rippling force/lightning burns from TkT/FL but not that ability. The 12s on Force Serenity/Force Leech makes it difficult for Rippling Force/Lightning burns to be proc'd when not from TkT or FL. Putting it on disturbance would do 2 things, give a minor DPS buff, and make an ability that has been in the rotation since the beginning of the class have a use again. It would also give a point to the set bonus. 4. Currently TkT/FL is not in the Telekinetics/Lightning Rotation so the set bonus would have to leave in the buff to Lightning Bolt/Telekinetic Burst in there, but for Balance/Madness, I think if they revert Disturbance's Rippling force proc, to leave it as is, but a TkT/FL buff wouldn't be uncalled for either way. As far as the spec goes, the thing I've had the biggest issue w/ lately is how amazing the off heals are. I feel more like a tank in PvP due to the fact that I'm healing something like 1300eHPS which is absurd. The DoT's heal, FiB heals, Serenity heals, and then we have Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation w/if geared right will crit for 15-20k, and then we have HoT's (Rejuvinate/imp equiv and Force Armor/Static Barrier which if Life Ward utility is taken is even more healing). I think if they nerfed that, and Forcequake/Force Storm people would stop hating on the spec, as much as they do. I just hope they don't nerf w/ a sledge hammer as usual. It needs some retouching is all.

2. I think you misinterpreted me, sure it has high mobility. I'm just pointing out that in the current condition, a lot of that mobility cannot be put to good use because in order to achieve adequate parse numbers, Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning must be channeled heavily. You cannot move during this ability. This is what I was referring to. A large portion of our rotation currently revolves around this ability. I think that, personally if the damage of Disturbance/Lightning Strike were increased to the point of its use being viable again, that the time spent standing around for Force Serenity/Force Leech would become negligible and not required to be instant. 3. This is how it was in 2.10. It was part of what made the class a decent sustained DPS class. I suppose everything posted here is truly an opinion so here's mine: I believe in 3.0 that Bioware overboosted the Balance Sage/Madness Sorc's survivability and over-nerfed the DPS. This was my suggestion on how to rectify that, by nerfing the healing. 4. The set bonus change I feel would be an instance of "If there isn't really a valid reason to use disturbance/lightning strike" then there is very little use for the set bonus to be related to that and was merely offering a suggestion about how it could become useful. Most of these things are just the result of disturbance doing less damage than Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning. Yes the 2% damage buff makes it a slight DPS gain to actually use disturbance. I wasn't referring that they change all of these, because frankly that's off base and would make the class OP, which frankly I don't want. One other change that could be effective would be to move rippling force/lightning burns back to Disturbance/Lightning Strike. That would effectively eliminate the burst problem, and give a reason to use disturbance/lightning strike again. Just a thought. However that being said, the line "you appear to be very knowledgeable and I doubt that is the case in your circumstance" I personally take offense to. You are posting your opinions same as I am posting mine. I could make similar statements about people on the forums. I choose not to.