Ahahahahahhahahhahahhahaha .... you still think devs read anything on this class forums and respond to it. Where have you been these past years?

This is the same crap that went on just before 3.0 was released. Everybody was whining how OP sorcs would be and then solo Q (what half of you guys are whining about) was completely dominated by Sins and PTs. And even in reg WZs the sins outperformed the sorcs by quite a lot. Nowadays you guys are whining because you are not on the top of the damage leaderboard. Completely neglecting that almost all the damage listed for the sorcs is AoE DoT damage, while your damage is most likely Single Target Burst damage. So who is killing whom? It so sad how so many people can be too stupid to properly read a table. And the mobility part is simply a lie. Especially when you consider that Madness is DoT based and thus has to rely on kiting. If you can't kill a Madness sorc / Balance Sage in a 1on1 duel you are doing something very wrong. (snipers are partially excluded here because it will heavily depend on the terrain of the battleground). As I have pointed out before all the classes (especially melee) got tons of gap closers, immunities, speed buffs, and even some decent range attacks so that there should barely ever by a gap in between you and the sorc. Oh and it's all instant! But hey, it's always easier to jump on the sorc-hater train instead of critizing yourself and work on your performance. PS: You should also keep in mind that bubble + moving =/= bubble + casting!

So you played against bads on did well ... gz. That proves everything you said about sorcs. Let's face it, you are only upset you are not always the leader on the damage board at the end of a warzone and this really upsets you, because that's all you care for. So since you are not leader on the damage board, but you are at the same time mega awesome, something has to be wrong with the people having higher total numbers than you have. THEY MUST BE COMPLETELY OP!!!! Nevermind how those numbers actually come to be and what that means. Their total damage > your total damage => they are OP and need a nerf! Your description of you kiting as a sorc speaks volumes. Melees these days got so many immunities and speed buffs that it is literally impossible to kite them the way you desribe it ... unless they are bads. Granted Maras had / have some trouble here. But any other melee class is packed with gap closers, immunities, speed buffs, and cc. For example: Jugg charges you, which not unly roots, interupts and essentially stuns you but also gives them immunitiy to any CC. With this immunity they completely negate your stun bubble and there is basically nothing you can do about it. The only thing you can do it run (force speed) ... which you claim works so well. But wait. What does the average jugg do when you use force speed. He either stuns you of pushes you (which essentially stuns you as well) and then charges at you again. Thus completely negating your force speed. And if said Jugg chose option 2 he will have is cc immunity up again and in the meanwhile he has been dealing several 10k damage to you, while your DoTs + DF only did a few k on him. Oh and just in case you are not finished by now you will simply eat a(nother) CC because 1 CC or 1 knockback does not make you white barred. So at this point you can use CC breaker, Bubble, or simply die (if you live that long). Using Stunbreaker is most like a waste because you will died withing 1 or 2 GCDs afterwards anyways. Using Barrier is an option, but one that you only have every 3mins and afterwards the jugg will just rinse and repeat! And remember at this point you barely did anything so the jugg still has his DCDs ready while you don't. So you are worse off than you were in the beginning. And before you start saying: "That's something jugg specific and sorcs still easily wipe any other class": PT got more (reliable and useful)stuns than the sorc, can grap you when you run, has very long up time and relatively low downtime on a high speed buff that also gives him immunity. And not to forget deals tons of burst damage while you do lousy single target dot damage. Sins got everything sorcs got and more. And of course they neverending immunities sorcs can do absolutely nothing about. Oh and let's not forget that 30m CC on a 14 sec CD they have. And that they can easily cleanse your DoTs. And if for some reason they get low on health they will simply vanish and heal up. Same if you use bubble. Operatives are the 1on1 kings and you mean to tell me that you killed and kited them without any effort. Sure because you are such a pro! They only got rofl rolls, cc, other immunities and high burst damage when they play against other players than you. Not to forget the cleanses. Oh and like sin they got vanish + h2f just in case. Maras have admittedly less immunity than the other melee classes but they will still rip you a new one when they are on top of you thanks to their big burst. And there is even more. You only do lousy DoT damage while most if not all of these melees will do burst damage or at least good burst besides DoT damage. And that does not involve any casting. The only thing Madness has is it's big total numbers in the end when people cuddled to much in the warzone. And since people like you only sort the leaderboard for total damage dealt and check who is on top, they come to the conclusion that sorcs must be OP because they dealt more damage than they did. But the fact that those sorcs barely kill anyone and die quite easily in a 1on1 is completely ignored - because how else could they be on top of you in your precious leaderboard at the end of a warzone if they are not completely OP. TLDR: Stop whining. Do a reality check. And learn what statistics / tables tell you and what they don't. This will advice will also come handy in the real world. ... You are welcome!

Hahahahha. Good one! They can't even manage to do this for ranked, why the hell should they be either able ot willing to do this in non ranked? Other than that: This! 99% of the players in normal wz brainlessly zerg for the entire duration of the match. Ofc these are the very same players that complain about "too much huttball", because in huttball you lose big time when you and 7 other noobs of your kind zerg all day and don't pay attention to the ball. I admit the reason behind the complaints about arenas in non ranked wz queue are not as obvious at first, but they are very simple ones: a) no respawn until end of round b) more importantly: these noobs even suck at what they are doing. Most of them are at best decent with their classes, and they don't need more for the zerg. But in the arena decent is not enough there is so much more to consider and you need more abilities and hotkeys. And not to forget (zerg) noobs weigh more heavily in the arena than in 8v8.

Well it just seems SWTOR attacts idiots. And these idiots are simply not capable of perceiving, processing, and understanding the most basic rules and mechanics of PvP in this game. There is simply no other likely explanation for this unfathomable lack of even the most basic skills. Edit: I am also in favor of implementing tiers for normal wzs. No actual ranking and no rating points, but some tier system so that people of somewhat equal skill levels can play with and against one another.

I would like to say it is unbelievable that we still have this discussion so many months after release of 3.0, but unfortunately it is not unbelievable. It's rather sad. I don't like DoT spread for 3 reasons 1) it cripples my ability to cc other players in PvP 2) it makes all these clueless kiddies whine about how OP sorcs are, because all these kiddies do is look at the overall damage at the end of each match. 3) because the overall damage is so high in PvP, I don't get decent single target dps and pretty much every other class and dps spec outperforms me here. Therefore I would like to see DoT Spread being removed and in turn single target dps boosted. I think a nice way to handle DoT spread is to turn it into a DoT Refresh / Re-apply. This way the devs still got something that looks pretty much like their current "baby", but also allows to tackle the issues Madness has. Oh and make Force Leech an instant ability. It why do sorcs have to cast all their heavily hitting abilities while the other classes get abilities that hit way harder and are instant. Madness is based on DoTs and on Kiting - standing still to cast something does not really fit into that play style, especially since we already have to stand still all the time to cast FL anyways. And NO, Force Mobility is not really an option, unless you merge some of the other useful Utilities or significantly buff Force Mobility. So: - Remove DoT spread / turn DoT spread into a refresh - Buff single target dps by increasing the damage dealt by the DoTs, Force Leech, perhaps Death Field. - Buffing Shock or Lightning Strike might be a viable option as well - Don't put too much weight on the buff of Force Lightning to incease single target dps, as it will make Madness too reliant on FL - Make Force Leech an instant cast - Adjust survivability / healing received from DoT when you remove the DoT spread

And we sorcs felt both so out of place and out of league. If this is such a Sin and Sorc fest, then I am wondering why PTs got higher ranking than sorcs and why only heal sorcs can achieve high ratings, yet most sorcs you encounter are dps sorcs (even though more and more either switch to healing or PT / Sin).

So that means we will have to wait even longer (minimum 4 weeks) to see some Hatred nerfs. Way to go! Keep on ruining the season.

Those high ranking sorcs and sages are healers (at least in solo Q). Sorc dps is actually pretty crappy in solo Q. You take more damage than any other class. Got no real mitigation. And are basically completely shut down damage wise when you are being focused. Very much like mercs, and snipers this looks a bit different in team ranked as you will have tank and heal to support you and TS will allow you to coordinate much better. So in 4s you might do quite well, but in solo Q it's just horrible in both dps specs.

Hey, Since the launch of 3.0 it happenes repeatedly that there is a serious delay between animation and effect when activating Force Barrier. A lot of sorcerers and sages die with their hands put up in the air. While prior to 3.0 there was the issue that you had to repeatedly use the Force Barrier ability in order for it to really activate (and no this was not caused by Electro Net or casting). I am not sure whether those 2 bugs are somehow related, but it is VERY ANNOYING if your only real defensive cooldown fails you approximately 30% of the time.

still a hell lot better than what you can do here.

That's because of the ****** engine and server lag. They see you infront of them when you see yourself already behind them. On their screens they hit you - just to no effect. As for why sorcs don't have it: Because BW didn't want sins to have it. Cause them filling up resolve unintentionally. And since they are lazy they just changed it for both advanced classes as its a shared ability. That's also the reason why you got this crappy range on it. Sins are melees and don't want to run that far after a knockback. It's all about Sins for BW. That's why they have always been strong. And that's why they screw over other classes just to ensure sins get what they want / need.

Well that's an explanation for idiots. Whatever resources they spent on the CM team they can't spent on the PvP team (if there is any). Thus, since EAware's resources are limited, this statement is a lie!

This is not the first time this has be suggested. But: a) BW does not read this forums b) BW does not care c) BW does not understand (else they would never have implemented it in its current form) Save your time and energy.

Wrong forum dude. Bioware is not reading anything in here.

And you prove to me that sorc barrier always heals sorcs to 100% hp as you claimed in the PTS forum that is does. Hint: you might want to review the following topics of you elementary school 1) numbers from 0 to 100 2) addition and the basics about percentages (just to be sure). Can't wait to see your calculations.

I just had a revolutionary idea and don't know if someone ever told Bioware this, so I am going ahead and say it here: Read the god damn tickets that players submit to you! I know this is a truely revolutionary idea, almost a sagrilege, but if a certain player name comes up over and over again in connection with win-trading then it might actually be a good idea to take a closer look at this player!

The exaggerations of the mercs irritate me.

While I agree that there is something wrong about an AoE attack hitting so hard, it is not as bad as those bads always say it is. As pointed out there is plenty you can do to prevent a sorc from getting the high numbers. That doesn't mean it should not be changed, BUT when it is changed some other sorc abilities have to be changed as well. Our high burst abilities are the lowest hitting of all classes(7-8k vs 12-17k of other classes). Our follow-ups are also weaker than those of the other classes. Most classes got better kiting tools. And Madness is even far worse off than Lightning! They should address this as well when they are making changes to Force Storm. People are always whining about the big total numbers at the end of a match without ever giving a thought to how those numbers came to be and what they actually mean. I bet it would make a difference to you whether you are the sole winner of the jackpot or have to share it with other people.

This all sounds pretty good - if its actually true. Because I know win traders from season 3 who are riding Baron Deathmark's Walker right now. In fact none of the people I know who participated in extensive win-trading did not get his rewards the past 2 seasons. So forgive me if stay skeptical - for now. But will you also be able to spot single players who lose on purpose? Common tactic during season 2 and 3 was that pubs (who can already essentially play as premades due to the lack of pubs listing for solo Q) would list with a tank while one of them would log on their imperial char also queuing as a tank. The fact that there were basically no tanks queuing ensured that they would actually meet in the arena, where the imperial tank (pub undercover) would either just stand there doing nothing or getting himself killed on purpose. You should also restore the rating of those who were victims to the win trading. After all 1 win trader can hurt 3 people at once. If you lose 20 rating per lost game (courtesy of the win trader) but only win something between 1 and 5 points if you win, then those win traders have a huge negative effect on your rating and your gaming experience.

I agree with you on this one. But there is a difference between actual objective OP-ness / Unbalance or a perceived subjective one. Currently there is not even in theory a balance between the different specs. And that's the main issue. And as I stated before, if specs are perfectly balance and both opponents have the same skill and gear, and battleground is not favoring either of the 2 specs, then the winner will be determined only by luck. But in those cases it is a pretty close call who wins and who loses.

And Snipers got no tools to get to the sorc or to keep it in one spot for some time ... root, stun, slow ... I know snipers are poor suckers with inferior dps, no burst, cc, or utility at all. Keep telling that to yourself, guess from your point of view, based on the experiences you made, it probably makes sense. After all its never your fault. If you LOS the sorc he won't be able to put dots on you either! That's why I said LOS works both ways. And maybe you should consider not staying in a spot where he can easily get out of LOS and back into it at free will.

Yeah because snipers got absolutely no abilities to prevent the sorc from moving or to catch up with the sorc. And Madness sorcs use absolutely no casted or channeled abilities. Here are 3 pieces of advice for you: 1) LOS works both ways 2) Don't cuddle 3) L2P your class Even a single sniper can kill the sorc. If have eaten 31k (17k + 14k) from a sniper within 1 gcd. That's 75% of my hp gone in 1 gcd ... it takes the sorc far longer to bring the sniper down to 25% hp, if the sorc can manage to do this at all. And now imagine 3 snipers doing that. They would deal 93k within 1 gcd of the sorc. And it is not like the snipers don't have good dps after those 2 attack too.

Yeah or to prevent those operatives and scoundrels from rofl-rolling to immunity and beyond.

Well balance is not something ambiguous, there is a definition for it. What I suggested is actually quite practically. Sure it takes some effort to identify and quantify the various variables that affect the balance, but we are living in the age of computers. We are able to address every pixel on our screens individually and that countless times per second. We can detect the time difference, caused by the difference in speed, between the GPS satelites in orbit and us on earth, so we should be able to compare a few variables! And there is nothing wrong if a healer wins against a burst dps, as long as (given same conditions like gear and skill) it was a close call and might very well have turned out the other way. There will always be parameters you cannot controll, such as your form of the day, or anything that is based on luck, such as 30% crit chance. But as long as that effects both parties equally it is not an issue.