Bearmug Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Finally cutting out the grind doesn't in any way make the game simpler because grinding isn't difficult. Anyone that thinks leveling in SWTOR is a grind doesn't know what grind is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedd Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Anyone that thinks leveling in SWTOR is a grind doesn't know what grind is. Unfortunately A LOT of mmo players these days feel like they are owed, so it becomes 'who shouts the loudest wins', even those small in number can win that IF they make more noise. It's a PITA and one of the reasons mmo's ended up in the state they are in today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsons Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 A steady stream of players who rush to "endgame" and join max-level groups in level 10-15 greens and don't know how to play will not help the company, the players, or the game. This. Single-player gamers at heart greatly enjoy 12 XP. I don't begrudge them their experience. Unfortunately, I never meet those. While they are enjoying their stories, I met those who rushed through and went into groupfinder when they hit 55, still wearing blue level 25 earpieces among their green level 40-something gear and, it appears, never paying training costs to improve their skills. I don't doubt they hit the spacebar all the way through the story content the OP prizes so much. I can sympathize with newbs. The real problem was players who knew they were rush jobs but were so greedy for gear they literally freeloaded on others to carry them through the content. They didn't care. 12 XP completely ruined groupfinder for hardmode flashpoints, period. The only time I've been in one since 12 XP started was to help friends who pleaded with me because it had gotten so bad. I won't be back until at least a month after 12 XP finally ended. And 30 times through Kuat, really? Don't blame the game because you did something incredibly repetitive. I have a life, a good marriage, kids a rewarding job -- and a little patience. I went through Kuat once with friends just to see it and have never been back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortunateSon Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Surely the question here should be choice. I liked the 12x XP but I haven't got a lot of time to play ToR as i'm a full time carer for my elderly grandmother. Having 12x as an option for me was great as I had no interest in raiding, pvp or any of that. I just wanted to enjoy some star wars stories either alone or with a friend or two and the 12x promotion allowed me to do that I managed to get a couple of my toons to mid level and one to 55 however now I find myself not wanting to play ToR again as I look at how much work and time it will take me just to level one toon with 12x and I can't justify this if I had to level it normally in comparison to the cost of subscription (it took me one month to get my Jedi Knight through to lvl55, so you can imagine how long it would take me if I had to do side quests with it) Surely it's no harm on BW's side to simply allow Subscribers to choose if they want to have 12x on or not. It doesn't hurt people who don't want it on as they can turn it off and it gives those of us who due to time or maybe have done the story before and want to simply see it from the opposite side without having to redo all the side quests a chance to play how we want to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrabeneuf Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 yea dude i got to 60 in 8 hours-10 hours that is not even close to a grind and way to easy in my opinion but so many cry babies on this game.... ALWAYS GOT SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT its to hard to level are you kidding me dude. Those that say that obviously werent around for launch where it was like forever to level 1 level. they should just take all perks away and make everyone do it the old way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 ....or at least take away the ability for folks to use the terms "cry", "whine" and "crybaby". That should earn you a 4 hour ban from your keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Here's one thing that is odd to me. A few months back I tested a "solo-leveling" toon (no companion out). I used no xp boosts, no legacy perks no xp buffs, no guild boost, so I had to get all my XP the "hard" way. It took my a total of 89 hours all the way through to Oricon (according to /played). That was with 1x (normal) xp, watching all the cutscenes, and spending a LOT of time killing mobs, as the primary purpose was to see how difficult combat was without a companion. People are desperate to cut that time by a factor of 10?? I just don't get it. Heck, during "double xp" weekends, legacy xp perks, guild bonus and xp boost consumable, I've been able to level doing mostly class quests and only a few side quests / warzones / flashpoints / space missions. I'm startled that people need a leveling experience SIX TIMES faster than that, and are threatening to leave unless they get it. :confused: Edited December 9, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) LOL This is one of the least painful leveling MMOs that are out there. It's as casual as it comes to get to max level. Of course, I do not know what ESO is like now that VR can be leveled with XP and without veteran points but I'd say this still is the easiest. So if you want to leave because it takes too long for you; I hope you do not plan on another MMO. in fact; its a lot of the reason why I am here. And ironically; I have been spending a lot more time in this game than I planned to give an MMO because I have been having fun. Edited December 9, 2014 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'm startled that people need a leveling experience SIX TIMES faster than that... Fair enough, but I personally do not find this odd and/or surprising. ...and are threatening to leave unless they get it. However, that part I do find odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Here's one thing that is odd to me. A few months back I tested a "solo-leveling" toon (no companion out). I used no xp boosts, no legacy perks no xp buffs, no guild boost, so I had to get all my XP the "hard" way. It took my a total of 89 hours all the way through to Oricon (according to /played). That was with 1x (normal) xp, watching all the cutscenes, and spending a LOT of time killing mobs, as the primary purpose was to see how difficult combat was without a companion. People are desperate to cut that time by a factor of 10?? I just don't get it. Heck, during "double xp" weekends, legacy xp perks, guild bonus and xp boost consumable, I've been able to level doing mostly class quests and only a few side quests / warzones / flashpoints / space missions. I'm startled that people need a leveling experience SIX TIMES faster than that, and are threatening to leave unless they get it. :confused: Exactly! 12x is excessive. 8 hours to 55... With rest xp and all the legacy boosts, guild xp, and consumables it's not hard to level to 55 in just matter of a week or two (not months) you factor it Double XP weekends there's no reason not to have all your alts leveled in a few months of player. But some of these Derps just want instant gratification. They want it now without any effort just because they feel they're entitled because "whooo I'm legacy level 50"... Edited December 9, 2014 by chosonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Sorry guys, but anyone who plays video games is not engaging in work. They are expressing effort. And that effort is minimal no matter HOW hard a game is. Because it is just a game. The days of punishing players, or at least making gameplay challenging are likely over unfortunately. This is the new norm, casuals rule the market, hardcore and traditional players will need to learn to adapt or simply choose to engage in other types of gameplay. There is likely no other choice. As time passes it is more likely games will get easier, not harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 As time passes it is more likely games will get easier, not harder. No doubt. But this game has the option to be BOTH. Want it to be easier? Overlevel the content. What it to be harder? Don't. (or unsummon your companion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diefenbaker Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 No. Why would I? I wouldn't mind a legacy perk of some sort to get those blasted alts through faster and see the other stories. Doesn't need to be 12x, which is pretty hefty. Maybe a 2x for all XP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Sorry guys, but anyone who plays video games is not engaging in work. They are expressing effort. And that effort is minimal no matter HOW hard a game is. Because it is just a game. The days of punishing players, or at least making gameplay challenging are likely over unfortunately. This is the new norm, casuals rule the market, hardcore and traditional players will need to learn to adapt or simply choose to engage in other types of gameplay. There is likely no other choice. As time passes it is more likely games will get easier, not harder. Games are designed to be challenging, engaging, fun, and to help pass time. A game need to do at least 3 of these. Even casual gamers will get bored quickly it needs to meet these criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Fair enough. I think we should simply agree to disagree and leave it at that. I appreciate the discussion. Indeed. One last thing though. Eventually when things change enough it stops being what it was. What I mean is this. You may be right... (Some of the following you have not said but others have. I don't want you to think I am putting words in your mouth . ) Companies may have said "you know what a game with leveling and learning curves, the trinity, a persistent world etc. are nice but just don't have the ROI our investors expect. We need to change that up.". Some companies aren't content with modest profits, that just isn't sexy and doesn't sell well on Wall Street, especially in the buzz word fueled tech sector. That's fine BUT water down and/or eliminate enough of these elements and you don't have an MMORPG anymore. Maybe they will call it Massive Co-op game. Maybe they will just call it a " Server based game" as Lars Buttler was trying to sell Red Door/Glyph before he virtually drove Trion into the ground, maybe they will just do what Bioware did with DAI and eliminate the Massive bit all together. They originally announced when they were just in the planning stages that the next DA game was gonna be an MMORPG but now have a SP game was a CO-OP option. My main point is change something enough and you pass a tipping point when it become something else. My references are simply about what makes and MMORPG what it is. That doesn't mean MMORPGs will always be around though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mando Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I support increased xp for class missions returning in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackEyeArtistry Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 We don't live eternity, and our times have be to be spent wisely, be it work, romance, or entertainment such as this. It is an undeniable truth that SWTOR forces you to repeat the same side quests 4 times on each faction when you start an alt. This means, after your first character, you are forced to spend over 150 hours of repetition with absolutely no entertainment value(unless you enjoy doing the same things over and over while leveling) to get a character to end game contents. That is a whole month of spending 5 hours a day, doing things that is not enjoyable. After 12xp, I've tried to raise an alt, spent 30 hours to get to level 30 with all legacy unlocks and available boosts by repeating KDY like 30 times, then decided it's not worth my time. This is literally stupidest thing I could do with my leisure time. 99% games are more enjoyable and shorter than repeating the same SQ in SWTOR. I would rather play Ride to Hell:Retribution(the game that scored 1/10 in GS review.) SWTOR does not have enough side quests to avoid repetition, and on top of that, those fillers are not even well-made. The time and efforts it takes to normally level up is simply not worth it. Bioware should seriously consider bringing back 12xp in CC or legacy unlock because otherwise the leveling contents are simply too awful to repeat after the first time and Bioware is not really getting long-term profit by taking it away when people don't bother to play like me. I am unsubbing and I somehow doubt something like 12xp will ever come back. SWTOR felt very enjoyable while it lasted. You had two months to level toons to 55. Each toon takes about 9 to 10 hours to level to 55 with 12x. Why didnt you level all the toons you wanted in that time. I now have 8 level 55s and to be honest I will only really have time for two in endgame anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorwen Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Anyone that thinks leveling in SWTOR is a grind doesn't know what grind is. Let me guess back in the day you had to grind up hill, both ways, and in the snow. Guess what so did I and that doesn't make having to do side quests and on every alt any less than a grind. Edited December 9, 2014 by Sorwen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 ....or at least take away the ability for folks to use the terms "cry", "whine" and "crybaby". That should earn you a 4 hour ban from your keyboard. All the +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Sorry guys, but anyone who plays video games is not engaging in work. They are expressing effort. And that effort is minimal no matter HOW hard a game is. Because it is just a game. The days of punishing players, or at least making gameplay challenging are likely over unfortunately. This is the new norm, casuals rule the market, hardcore and traditional players will need to learn to adapt or simply choose to engage in other types of gameplay. There is likely no other choice. As time passes it is more likely games will get easier, not harder. To me, there's a difference between content with some bite to it, and content that's a PITA for the sake of being a PITA, which is what some seem to want. There has to be a balance in the design between instant gratification, and the attitude I was talking about earlier in this thread: I do have to laugh at the whole cybermacho "How will they learn to hardcore raid with their class if they don't have to grind 1 XP at a time over the course of 10 years by making bitter bread from the crushed bones of NPCs!?!?!?! The outrage of someone enjoying the leveling experience! You're supposed to be suffering for every level, building a character builds character! Pain is weakness leaving the body!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmacypher Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) NO I am not .. if I leave it will be for other reasons.. IF 12x xp comes back I might leave till it does. I t made a mess of the few characters I did level and the high ends who burned a lot credits to equip the characters "leap frogging" through content. Edited December 10, 2014 by enigmacypher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I wont leave no. But I will spearhead a campaign of terror until we get it back! Yea...I'll be helping him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimskringla Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm considering unsubscribing unless 12x XP comes back. I've done the Imperial planet quests so many times that I don't want to finish leveling by BH now. I'd be willing to pay at least 1200cc per character to enable 12x xp. I love the story quests, but the side content is not something I enjoy repeating. I really enjoyed the BH story far more than I imagined I would, but the thought of going through the mind-numbing side quests again with the BH and the Agent is just too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Well, I hold out hope we will see this as a NON EVENT legacy item in the future, hopefully the near future. And I would also like to see the Cartel event become a regular game feature as well. That one is odd as an event IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 We don't live eternity, and our times have be to be spent wisely, be it work, romance, or entertainment such as this. It is an undeniable truth that SWTOR forces you to repeat the same side quests 4 times on each faction when you start an alt. This means, after your first character, you are forced to spend over 150 hours of repetition with absolutely no entertainment value(unless you enjoy doing the same things over and over while leveling) to get a character to end game contents. That is a whole month of spending 5 hours a day, doing things that is not enjoyable. After 12xp, I've tried to raise an alt, spent 30 hours to get to level 30 with all legacy unlocks and available boosts by repeating KDY like 30 times, then decided it's not worth my time. This is literally stupidest thing I could do with my leisure time. 99% games are more enjoyable and shorter than repeating the same SQ in SWTOR. I would rather play Ride to Hell:Retribution(the game that scored 1/10 in GS review.) SWTOR does not have enough side quests to avoid repetition, and on top of that, those fillers are not even well-made. The time and efforts it takes to normally level up is simply not worth it. Bioware should seriously consider bringing back 12xp in CC or legacy unlock because otherwise the leveling contents are simply too awful to repeat after the first time and Bioware is not really getting long-term profit by taking it away when people don't bother to play like me. I am unsubbing and I somehow doubt something like 12xp will ever come back. SWTOR felt very enjoyable while it lasted. Evidently you don't really play well with 'facts'. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20141126 First character to 50 did it in less than half the time you posit. They did this with the _release_ code of the game which did not include many of the changes since that have made leveling even easier. There was no minimum of +5% exp just from being in a guild. There were no experience bonuses from consumable items that are _given away_ for completing some of the quests. Combat was significantly more difficult. They did not have the advantage of Heroic moment and multiple alts providing huge damage potential to solo significantly harder content. etc. So your entire premise is off. I have a wife, a mortgage, a life, and still have 12 55+ characters and 4 more on the way so I have one of each advanced class on both sides. I don't play significant ours daily. Fastlane creates major problems that the selfish, self-absorbed people screaming for 12x exp as permanent do not bother to think about. 12x exp would destroy the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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