DOHboy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 maybe this is a good thing, nice to have a house cleaning every now and then and toss out the things that are not really wanted/needed anymore. If people leave this game or something like this, we're better off for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryllynyth Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 yeah im probably gonna go to another game already found a few that caught my interest and dont have this dumbed down system. Plus i been a sub since day 1 and frankly it sucks. Bye? It's not like anything changed much (everyone used the same setups anyway) except now it's actually easier and faster to swap specs (since you only have to choose utility skills) so you basically get the 'benefit' of standardized specs along with the benefit of easier switching between them. It's a win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 sounds like being lazy to me Call it lazy if you'd like but no project has unlimited resources. Everything has to have its benefits weighted against its costs. This is true for every game or product you can think of. There will always be things that you think are cool that get the cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (everyone used the same setups anyway) No, we didn't -- "everyone used the same specs" is an artifact of the echo-chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I absolutely hate the new system and feel I have been ripped off for what money I have spent on this game I feel we should try to get everyone to quit not many people played anyways but we liked it how it was Hating the new system and expressing as much is not only understandable, it is certainly welcome in this forum. That is, after all, what the forum is for despite what other folks may claim. I say express how you feel. HOWEVER....trying to get folks to campaign in a way to get OTHER folks to quit playing is petty IMO. It's one thing to express your grievance, it is quite another to convince folks to boycott a game. Just as you have the right to view the changes how you see fit, and express any grievances openly, you should respect the rights of those folks that wish to express satisfaction and support the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 No, we didn't -- "everyone used the same specs" is an artifact of the echo-chamber. BioWare has the numbers and they agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryllynyth Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 No, we didn't -- "everyone used the same specs" is an artifact of the echo-chamber. Now please respond to the rest of the post instead of cherry-picking part of one sentence and jumping on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmyas Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 people like it ppl dont ppl that do like it jump down our throats for not liking it, and thats biased and stupid. just cause we dont share the same likes as yall(not you specifically) they ram it down our throats. its stupid What? Jesus. Reading that reply made my grade 4 English teacher roll over in her grave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) BioWare has the numbers and they agree with it. So... Bioware has numbers showing that everyone used the same handful of builds? Now please respond to the rest of the post instead of cherry-picking part of one sentence and jumping on that. I responded to the part that was factually incorrect. Edited December 2, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Bye? It's not like anything changed much (everyone used the same setups anyway) except now it's actually easier and faster to swap specs (since you only have to choose utility skills) so you basically get the 'benefit' of standardized specs along with the benefit of easier switching between them. It's a win-win. Switching being easier and faster is the worst argument for the new system. Easier and faster could have been achieved through other means, like an option to save specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 So... Bioware has numbers showing that everyone used the same handful of builds? I believe he means the 2 pure builds per AC plus 1 shared purebuild per AC, making 20 purebuilds (not counting mirrors) were the majority used specs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PierceSG Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 LOL, those that hated the changes haven't left and quitted the game yet? I thought, with that much hatred against this change, they and their "friends" whom abhorred this discipline change would have dumped SWTOR and never looked back. They should also know by now that whines will not make MMO developers/studios to roll back on major changes like this one. They should quit before the accumulating vitriol in their body kills them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) So... Bioware has numbers showing that everyone used the same handful of builds? I responded to the part that was factually incorrect. Can you chill, all of your posting today has been nothing but emotional garbage. Think, be reasonable, you don't have to agree with disciplines, but be rational about it instead of all the "RAWR ITS RUINED RAWR, AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A COOKIECUTTER" Edited December 2, 2014 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryllynyth Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I responded to the part that was factually incorrect. No, you didn't. You did manage to miss the forest for a tree, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 So... Bioware has numbers showing that everyone used the same handful of builds? I responded to the part that was factually incorrect. Do they need to? Everyone doesn't do PvP, but warzones are still in the game. Everyone doesn't use the best gear, but it still exists. If they found that <5% of the population was using something, they would either remove it, improve it so more people would use it, or leave it with no support. In the case of skill trees, the vast majority of players were using the same builds for a given spec. The outliers were classes like Sin that had hybrid specs that could outperform a full spec or players who were not choosing talents to be most effective (like yourself). There is nothing wrong with the way you were playing, but the dev's intention was to stop the former reason, not the latter. At most, the majority of players were taking 2 or 3 points different than other players, which is actually expanded to 7 with utility options now. You are taking everyone to be literal, when in fact it is simply intended to mean the vast majority of players. Hybrid specs are the new 8v8 ranked warzones. BW couldn't afford to allocate resources to improve the system, so they came up with a new system to replace it. Not every player will like the new system, but there are positive reasons for the change that apply to more players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmyas Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 LOL, those that hated the changes haven't left and quitted the game yet? I thought, with that much hatred against this change, they and their "friends" whom abhorred this discipline change would have dumped SWTOR and never looked back. They should also know by now that whines will not make MMO developers/studios to roll back on major changes like this one. They should quit before the accumulating vitriol in their body kills them. Congratulations. You just made the most important point of this thread. If people don't like it. Quit. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayshames Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Congratulations. You just made the most important point of this thread. If people don't like it. Quit. /thread Quitting would be too easy. Then we wouldn't have any trolls on the forums and no one mouthing off about how bad everything is. Without those.. there would be very few posts to reply to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Do they need to? Everyone doesn't do PvP, but warzones are still in the game. Everyone doesn't use the best gear, but it still exists. If they found that <5% of the population was using something, they would either remove it, improve it so more people would use it, or leave it with no support. In the case of skill trees, the vast majority of players were using the same builds for a given spec. The outliers were classes like Sin that had hybrid specs that could outperform a full spec or players who were not choosing talents to be most effective (like yourself). There is nothing wrong with the way you were playing, but the dev's intention was to stop the former reason, not the latter. At most, the majority of players were taking 2 or 3 points different than other players, which is actually expanded to 7 with utility options now. You are taking everyone to be literal, when in fact it is simply intended to mean the vast majority of players. Hybrid specs are the new 8v8 ranked warzones. BW couldn't afford to allocate resources to improve the system, so they came up with a new system to replace it. Not every player will like the new system, but there are positive reasons for the change that apply to more players. And that's really it. Nice post. Streamlined class system, much easier to balance and control with more player FUNCTIONAL choice. Its a win for everyone except those clinging to hybrid builds which Bioware has openly stated were not the intention of the system. Played a hybrid? Too bad. Get over it or move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmyas Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Quitting would be too easy. Then we wouldn't have any trolls on the forums and no one mouthing off about how bad everything is. Without those.. there would be very few posts to reply to. I would love a forum with more substance and less posture. Wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 It is not a win for casuals, IMO, if they expect folks to repay for skills they already had. That one change is pretty foolish IMO. It is the most basic rule of all MMOs...you NEVER charge a player for the same ability twice after making changes. This is one of the biggest mistakes you can make when making this kind of change. I hope this is some kind of oversight, because I don't see this one change ending well for Bioware. One promising note...there doesn't seem to be that much backlash over the new discipline system in chat, so that is good. Hopefully that is a sign that at least THAT change is being well received. But the anger in game over having to pay for abilities you already paid for in the past is pretty epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSStember Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Bye? It's not like anything changed much (everyone used the same setups anyway) except now it's actually easier and faster to swap specs (since you only have to choose utility skills) so you basically get the 'benefit' of standardized specs along with the benefit of easier switching between them. It's a win-win. Valid point. And as for those "rage quitting" over this (at least a few posts in this thread alone), I hope you find fun somewhere else. But for me, the fun of the game wasn't tied into the "skill trees" but the actual play and feel of a Star Wars universe...and that hasn't changed one bit Happily excited to be trying new content and hope there is more to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Also, on a side note....you want to get rid of those that are unhappy with the change? Be ready to open your wallets. Because if you push folks to leave the game AND do not pick up the slack by replacing that revenue the game would actually be better off if YOU left, not those you are encouraging to leave. This is a vehicle for profit. Like it or not it needs revenue. That means that need takes precedence over any irritation you may suffer due to negative feedback. Of course, if you are willing to pony up for the lost revenue, then push away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 It is not a win for casuals, IMO, if they expect folks to repay for skills they already had. That one change is pretty foolish IMO. It is the most basic rule of all MMOs...you NEVER charge a player for the same ability twice after making changes. This is one of the biggest mistakes you can make when making this kind of change. I think you posted in the wrong thread, and in the offchance you did, you have to realize that repaying for skills is a bug as evidence by the fact its not universal. For instance On the four toons I have checked so far, only one of them had to repay for skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Sorry to hear you dislike it that much. It's absolutely fantastic and flows with the game more actually. Also, big plus with the more stabby stabby with Operative! Woo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_NovaBlast_ Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Valid point. And as for those "rage quitting" over this (at least a few posts in this thread alone), I hope you find fun somewhere else. But for me, the fun of the game wasn't tied into the "skill trees" but the actual play and feel of a Star Wars universe...and that hasn't changed one bit Happily excited to be trying new content and hope there is more to come QFT anyone rage quitting over the expansion can i haz your stuffs ??? lol Personally i like the new skill system a lot more organized and streamlined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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