azudelphi Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 actuall dont even know how to link unlike you and your friend i dont spend time trying to sound better than everyone else... BUT click on several threads on first page of forum and start reading hes in about all of them... The frequency of my posts does not translate to a frequency in insults. My post history is out there for people to see. I can't say I am without sin, but you've done more to try and belittle and insult me personally in this thread than I can find in over 5 pages of my posts. I mean, if you want to have some mud-slinging argument then I want no part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) He's been going at this pretty hard for months, not so sure it is hyperbole. I think you know it is. You can still make your point without the insults....but you are certainly capable of doing what you wish. My only issue with your comment is deriding him for his hyperbole and using hyperbole in the same statement. He is not literally crying obviously. Therefore it is hyperbole. You can, of course, do as you wish. I was just pointing it out. Edited December 2, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) My final pathetic retort is to point out that you don't know what you're talking about? Some hybrids have done over 10% higher damage than the next highest class. That's not insignificant by any stretch of the imagination and certainly a farcry from your 0.05%. OH NO, NOT 10%!!!! Whatever will you do! Someone is doing 10% more damage, it's a crime against humanity. If not for PvP, this would be entirely meaningless... . Seriously though, I'm pretty sure they killed that particular build, and certain that they could have avoided throwing the baby out with the bathwater in making these changes. Edited December 2, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 OH NO, NOT 10%!!!! Whatever will you do! If not for PvP, it would be ENTIRELY meaningless. 10% of 3000 dps is 300 dps. 300 dps makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 From what I have seen of the new system on Dulfy, it does look a much simpler system than the old trees, it probably does "standardise" players more (not counting the utility abilities) but it does bring important abilities to your rotation earlier as if it were not for 12x xp I would have given up on my Vigilance Guardian as it felt so disjointed until I got plasma brand ability, which will help the more casual player get into a rhythm. Ironically since 12x xp has finished, its such a change that in many ways it could be easier to start again, I have a level 15 Vanguard I may consider retiring to try again. I think they may....may mind you....have made a mistake combining this system with the new content. Especially against the backdrop of the 12XP event, because that may have spoiled casuals a bit with the lack of ability cost. To go from that to the costs here AND the drastic changes could prove to be too much at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Maybe it's because I did stay on top of all the changes, but I wasn't surprised and "had lost four of my major abilities" may be a huge stretch. In fact, I lost one ability off of my main bar... Because I knew what was coming. Lots of moaning and gnashing of teeth here over changes that we knew where coming (in detail, as pointed out by some people on here) for a while now. But with hands on it is different than "knowing what is coming." Get out and play with the system for a while before you open your wrists. Edited December 2, 2014 by Khryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 10% of 3000 dps is 300 dps. 300 dps makes a difference. Not really for casual play. That does not mean it's not important, but not as important as players here claim. What is important is how it effected the leveling and play experience for casual players. That takes priority over everything else. And since they reduced mob difficulty the change is probably fine. It was smart, IMO, for them to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I think you know it is. You can still make your point without the insults....but you are certainly capable of doing what you wish. My only issue with your comment is deriding him for his hyperbole and using hyperbole in the same statement. He is not literally crying obviously. Therefore it is hyperbole. You can, of course, do as you wish. I was just pointing it out. It's cool, some people just can't make their points in discussing an MMO without falling back on "learn to play" arguments and calling everyone who doesn't agree with them a "whining crybaby" when people don't take their personal assumptions and preferences as a gospel starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I think you know it is. You can still make your point without the insults....but you are certainly capable of doing what you wish. My only issue with your comment is deriding him for his hyperbole and using hyperbole in the same statement. He is not literally crying obviously. Therefore it is hyperbole. You can, of course, do as you wish. I was just pointing it out. Fair enough on the crying thing (though I don't know...), but my original point was even if my characterization of him is hyperbole my argument is not. Not so concerned about the former, but if your argument is nothing but then you've really got nothing to stand on. OH NO, NOT 10%!!!! Whatever will you do! Someone is doing 10% more damage, it's a crime against humanity. If not for PvP, this would be entirely meaningless... . Seriously though, I'm pretty sure they killed that particular build, and certain that they could have avoided throwing the baby out with the bathwater in making these changes. Doing 10% more or less damage than another spec is a huge deal in both PVP and PVE group content. And seeing as how this game is heavily group based at end game it's very important that specs are balanced. This kind of parity is the only meaningful metric on whether a spec is viable. Whether you think some crappy spec is better for solo content is not a concern. They threw the baby out with the bath water because it was a deformed mutant and needed a quick toss in the trash compactor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I don't have to "choose" to pick up superfluous BS like +1 to accuracy? I don't have to "choose" to take skills that are 100% mandatory to even play the class? Hybrids are dead? Good. Don't let the space door hit you on your galactic thruster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Doing 10% more or less damage than another spec is a huge deal in both PVP and PVE group content. And seeing as how this game is heavily group based at end game it's very important that specs are balanced. This kind of parity is the only meaningful metric on whether a spec is viable. Whether you think some crappy spec is better for solo content is not a concern. How I judged specs in the old system was mainly based on "does this fit the character" and "does this avoid excessive button mashing and counter-watching", sorry you can't accept that as valid. I'd almost always rather take a passive skill over an active skill, and avoid skills that buff things I don't use or add more clock-watching to combat. Those other specs are only "crappy" under your own specific subjective standards. in a group, I do not give a single damn if the others are doing 10% more or 10% less damage than I'm doing, as long as we complete the mission and don't wipe. Beyond that, it's utterly meaningless to me in every way. Edited December 2, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) How I judged specs in the old system was mainly based on "does this fit the character" and "does this avoid excessive button mashing and counter-watching", sorry you can't accept that as valid. Those other specs are only "crappy" under your own specific subjective standards. in a group, I do not give a single damn if the others are doing 10% more or 10% less damage than I'm doing, as long as we complete the mission and don't wipe. Beyond that, it's utterly meaningless to me in every way. "Feel" isn't a useful metric, and just because you don't care about class balance doesn't mean that it's not important. I find it interesting that you claim that people who prefer the set skill line prefer to be spoonfed their skills when you refuse to go into any of the complexity of the classes and instead want to just hit the same couple abilities while avoiding any synergy the skills provide. Edited December 2, 2014 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_NovaBlast_ Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Just from first impressions alone i am liking this system better its more streamlined people started qqing about discipline when they were announced i'm not surprised they are qq as soon as it goes live . some peole live to qq if everything is not exactly they way they like it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Not really for casual play. That does not mean it's not important, but not as important as players here claim. What is important is how it effected the leveling and play experience for casual players. That takes priority over everything else. And since they reduced mob difficulty the change is probably fine. It was smart, IMO, for them to do so. Agree and disagree. For the leveling process, balance is marginally important. It shouldn't necessarily be a faceroll experience, but it also can't be overly difficult. Tuning solo content is absolutely required and to those points it has done well. But at the same time the margin for acceptable deviation for that gameplay is far more forgiving than higher tier group content. In competitive and cooperative end game play, if mechanics are properly executed, dps is the measure of contribution to the team and removing inherent numerical advantage from a limited number of classes seems to be a wise dev directive. Edited December 2, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 "Feel" isn't a useful metric, and just because you don't care about class balance doesn't mean that it's not important. Well, you don't care about player agency, I don't care about balancing to the nat's nuts. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Agree and disagree. For the leveling process, balance is marginally important. It shouldn't necessarily be a faceroll experience, but it also can't be overly difficult. Tuning solo content is absolutely required and to those points it has done well. But at the same time the margin for acceptable deviation for that gameplay is far more forgiving than higher tier group content. In competitive and cooperative end game play, if mechanics are properly executed, dps is the measure of contribution to the team and removing inherent numerical advantage from a limited number of classes seems to be a wise dev directive. A fair point I think. I would simply point out that many MANY games have improved end game at the cost of casual play in the past, to their own detriment (arguable naturally). Sure, the adjustments have to be made, but they can NOT be made at the expense of casual players under ANY circumstances. Unfortunate or not, those are the folks that keep the lights on. That is why I think the nerf to 1-50 mobs was a wise idea, but they did not make this change for the proper reasons. This team, though miles above the prior team in skill and forsight IMO still focuses on end game too much when it comes to major changes. By happy accident perhaps the 1-50 nerf for mobs may mitigate the dps reduction, as will the availability of 172 mods at 55 and the ability to grind lower level heroics for those mods....1000 cap also helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerinbjk Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I hate it too. It's a simple dumbed down version of a talent tree. I'm paid up for a few months but likely to go f2p after that and start looking for a new game. Too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmacypher Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I hated the look of the new "skill trees" myself (they really aren't skill "trees" anymore).. but is saves the issue of trying to balance an impossible number of permutations .. sure I admit it is a lazy answer but it is also the only answer that doesn't cause the QQing that a hybrid set up is better.. so on so for.. I hate the idea and yet the reasoning I can still understand.. like all changes to a game already out there I have to say just learn to accept it and try it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingoChest Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 It's not laziness. It's resource management. The idea is that moving forward they can reduce the staff needs for class balancing to put more effort into content. Hopefully so we don't see another 1 year gap between operations. sounds like being lazy to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I am still concerned about "useless" abilities and choices in the tree (naturally there are few if any that are truly useless, but may be looked on that way by casual players) and if casuals will properly adjust to the changes. I am hoping that the secondary changes to the leveling process and mods helps ease any transition difficulties. They could have done a bit more IMO, but they have some pretty robust mitigations in place IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzraelAngelDK Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) I just updated to this 3.0.....I gotta admit. I hate it. I hate hate hate it. I cant get used to it I lost like 4 main abilities i used. I hate it. The setup is lame. Cant stand playing anymore. Most likely will quit playing. and this sucks cause i love SWTOR and i was dreading this new system when it was mentioned. My friends and I play this game together and we all agree that we hate it, and its a shame cause we drop big bucks on the game and this sucks cause we cant stand it. I gave it a chance and I cant stand it. Really cant. Anyone else dislike this new system I absolutely hate the new system and feel I have been ripped off for what money I have spent on this game I feel we should try to get everyone to quit not many people played anyways but we liked it how it was Edited December 2, 2014 by AzraelAngelDK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) I dislike the new system, too. I don't need extensive testing, basic reading skill is enough. I played Sab/DF hybrid for fun (not for numbers) and now half of my toys is missing/inaccessible and the other half is barely recognizable. On top of that, most of the utilities seem to be more useful for pvp than pve, most of them are defensive, and many have either no effect or no full effect on mobs that are not weak or standard. Edited December 2, 2014 by KyaniteD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmyas Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 There isn't enough cat litter in China for all the ******* in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingoChest Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 I hate it too. It's a simple dumbed down version of a talent tree. I'm paid up for a few months but likely to go f2p after that and start looking for a new game. Too bad. yeah im probably gonna go to another game already found a few that caught my interest and dont have this dumbed down system. Plus i been a sub since day 1 and frankly it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingoChest Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 There isn't enough cat litter in China for all the ******* in this thread people like it ppl dont ppl that do like it jump down our throats for not liking it, and thats biased and stupid. just cause we dont share the same likes as yall(not you specifically) they ram it down our throats. its stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts