Is it time to remove cost on swapping out mods for subscribers?

[Transcendent]

IMO, it's simple...does the in-game credit sink work for or against the Cartel Market? I believe it's 100% against it. For that one reason alone I believe it should be removed.

 

I completely agree that it is counter productive to the Cartel Market, 100%, no shadow of a doubt.

 

However do I think it should be removed from the game? No. Simple line of thought on this, I think it should remain as a cost to pull out armourings / mods / enhancements if you intend to place it in Legacy Armour to pass around between characters. You still retain a credit sink in-game to maintain control of inflation.

 

However that said.

 

BioWare really need to consider adding in an appearance tab, so those shiny new cartel looks players want? You get those at the cost of those items from the GTN or from direct sales from the Cartel Market in whatever form that may be. It would be beneficial to both the players and to BioWare through the Cartel Market sales.

 

As it currently stands though, i've simply started placing new gear directly into Legacy Armour as I only have to add an augment slot once or twice and that set can be retained and more importantly passed around to other characters if required. I've stopped using Cartel Armour aside from my main, and when 3.0 hits it will stop there as well. Companions? Same there. It's useful if you wish to retain gear for cheaper levelling, especially as BioWare have kindly ensured a lot of the Legacy Armour now requires zero credits to actually purchase and you only need to run an event or two (which perversely earns credits to pull the mods out...).

[Jimvinny]

Credits are easier to get, and more abundant then they have ever been before. It stands to reason that credit sinks have to exist to keep inflation to a minimum. Conquests and strongholds are a new credit sink, true, but they don't apply to everyone. No, I'm fine with the system as is. If you want to change your appearance, you should have to pay for it.

[Heezdedjim]

As it currently stands though, i've simply started placing new gear directly into Legacy Armour as I only have to add an augment slot once or twice and that set can be retained and more importantly passed around to other characters if required. I've stopped using Cartel Armour aside from my main, and when 3.0 hits it will stop there as well. Companions? Same there. It's useful if you wish to retain gear for cheaper levelling, especially as BioWare have kindly ensured a lot of the Legacy Armour now requires zero credits to actually purchase and you only need to run an event or two (which perversely earns credits to pull the mods out...).

Legacy bound gear really is the only gear that matters anymore, and definitely the only gear worth putting purple mods into at any level, in a game like this that that so fanatically encourages you to have many alts.

 

I used the 12x event as an excuse to fill my bank with legacy bound armor sets for leveling, using the endless GSF pilot outfit sets that we got from the pre-launch subscriber bonus (probably the single best pre-order bonus to date, second only to the 12x bonus itself).

 

I have sets now for levels 13, 29, 41, and 53 filled with either blue or purple mods. Eventually, as I get my new set of crafters maxed out, I will craft purple mods for the sets that only have blues, and over time probably also will augment all of these sets with purple augments, as I find the time.

 

So with just four armor sets for each main stat, I can level a new alt all the way from 1 to 55 without buying any gear at all, as long as I always use a companion with a different main stat. The only class that is an issue is Trooper, and for that I have a second set of Aim gear.

 

When 3.0 hits, I'll make up a new set for each main stat with mods at whatever is the new max level of "standard" craftable mods, which seems like it probably will be 57 or 58.

 

When the Nar Shaddaa Nightlife event returns, I'll spend the several million or whatever it takes to grind out the gold certs for a full collection of legacy bound weapons to match all my leveling armor sets.

 

I never really do the endgame gear grind, but for people that do, obviously you can do the exact same thing with these sets with the highest rated gear, same as you can with leveling gear.

 

And once you have done that once for each main stat (maybe twice, if you play tank classes), then you have all the gear you'll ever need for however many characters you ever make. Just add a new tier to your line up for each main stat when each new level caps comes, and you're done.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Heezdedjim

[TUXs]

Don't see how is restricts anything. Pay your credits and swap your mods.

 

What is it, 33k per piece? 43k if you pull the augment instead of just crafting a new one?

 

7 cosmetic locations, 8 if you add in the weapon.

 

Round it off and call it 350k credits to change your outfit. If you run CZ, BH and Ilum you can return around 200k credits in about 40 minutes just from dailies and loot. Run two toons through them in one day or one toon over two days and you've covered the cost.

 

Ridiculous credit costs would be ten times that amount. Credits you can earn in 80 minutes are a trifling amount.

You seem to be missing the point...it's simply not worth it to me (and apparently plenty of others). I know how to run daily missions, but I have no interest in throwing away my fake $ like this.

 

I'm very interested in plenty of cosmetic CM sets of armor, but the costs associated with augmenting them is why I'll never wear them. The fake in-game currency cost of changing my look is costing Bioware real $ out of my pocket for the armors I do like...and that's 100% counter productive to the CM.

[TUXs]

Credits are easier to get, and more abundant then they have ever been before. It stands to reason that credit sinks have to exist to keep inflation to a minimum. Conquests and strongholds are a new credit sink, true, but they don't apply to everyone. No, I'm fine with the system as is. If you want to change your appearance, you should have to pay for it.

Way to spell out the reasons so compellingly Jimvinny...lol.

[Heezdedjim]

I'm very interested in plenty of cosmetic CM sets of armor, but the costs associated with augmenting them is why I'll never wear them. The fake in-game currency cost of changing my look is costing Bioware real $ out of my pocket for the armors I do like...and that's 100% counter productive to the CM.

I unlock the handful of CM sets I like the looks of very much, but my toons only wear them when I'm not playing them (mainly so they don't stand around in their underwear in the character selector headshot view, lol).

[Jimvinny]

Way to spell out the reasons so compellingly Jimvinny...lol.

 

You don't have to agree with me. I'm simply voicing my opinion, as I'm permitted to do. If your reason for posting is simply to mock my view, your time would probably be better spent elsewhere.

[TUXs]

You don't have to agree with me. I'm simply voicing my opinion, as I'm permitted to do. If your reason for posting is simply to mock my view, your time would probably be better spent elsewhere.

And I was simply voicing my opinion of yours. No mocking intended, but I was being sarcastic. I guess I don't understand this desire to charge players to change their clothes...that seems extremely silly to me.

[mikebevo]

While I change armor on my main every time something comes out I think would look better without any regard for credits or cost of augment kits, still I would fully support this for no other reason than it would be a nice perk for subscribers.

[Sorwen]

As with anything people that would not be affected by this hate the idea of it changing. Edited November 20, 2014 by Sorwen

[FrostTrooper]

Um...wut? Since when are credits not easy to be made in this game?

 

If you've got a secret you'd like to share, please do. I struggle to make credits. If I swap out the mods from one piece of gear into another, it costs me around 150,000. That doesn't break me, but it really takes a chunk out of my credit supply. I've been playing since launch with several breaks and I can honestly say, I struggle to make cash.

 

So as I said, if you've got some secret or tips you want to share, I'm all ears.

[HammerOneOne]

Well, you can't please all the people all the time. There are always people looking for another "EASY" button: trophies for everyone who shows up! But easy is boring and in the long run bad for the game.

 

If a cosmetic issue like a change in look is so important to you, because you want to look cooler than all the other toons, go invest a little in-game effort in achieving it.

 

That's a lot of conjecture about why I, and again a lot of other people, have issue with this. But if you are just looking to be argumentative just to be argumentative, then mission accomplished.

 

We're not looking for free and easy. Just more accessible. Myself and several people I'm this thread alone have said that they would have additional sets of gear if it were a little cheaper. That would still sink additional credits as well as boost CM items.

[azudelphi]

If you've got a secret you'd like to share, please do. I struggle to make credits. If I swap out the mods from one piece of gear into another, it costs me around 150,000. That doesn't break me, but it really takes a chunk out of my credit supply. I've been playing since launch with several breaks and I can honestly say, I struggle to make cash.

 

So as I said, if you've got some secret or tips you want to share, I'm all ears.

 

How is it 150k? Isn't the cost to pull 1 mod out of a piece ~ 15k for level 55 gear?

 

15k per mod removal = 45k per piece.

[Orizuru]

If you've got a secret you'd like to share, please do. I struggle to make credits. If I swap out the mods from one piece of gear into another, it costs me around 150,000. That doesn't break me, but it really takes a chunk out of my credit supply. I've been playing since launch with several breaks and I can honestly say, I struggle to make cash.

 

So as I said, if you've got some secret or tips you want to share, I'm all ears.

 

A couple hours of running daily/weekly missions should net 150-200k even if you fall asleep on the keyboard.

 

Here is a good list of the best places to earn credits just for playing the game.

 

http://dulfy.net/2014/08/11/swtor-daily-credits-guide/

[mikebevo]

How is it 150k? Isn't the cost to pull 1 mod out of a piece ~ 15k for level 55 gear?

 

15k per mod removal = 45k per piece.

add cost of pulling augment and new agument kit plus installing the kit.

[azudelphi]

add cost of pulling augment and new agument kit plus installing the kit.

 

Fair enough to those costs.

 

Edit: To be fair, the new augment kit and installing that kit is a static cost across all designs. So, the net differential is still only about 60k credits.

Edited November 20, 2014 by azudelphi

[captpickles]

If you've got a secret you'd like to share, please do. I struggle to make credits. If I swap out the mods from one piece of gear into another, it costs me around 150,000. That doesn't break me, but it really takes a chunk out of my credit supply. I've been playing since launch with several breaks and I can honestly say, I struggle to make cash.

 

So as I said, if you've got some secret or tips you want to share, I'm all ears.

 

1 crew skill run = 5k for a level 2 crew skill 50% of the time. run time 3 minutes.

[Tsillah]

I don't mind the costs for swapping mods out between alts, however, to have to do this when I just want a new look on my character is a bit much...especially with the augmenting costs.

 

Word to the wise though...with 3.0, since you're gonna have to augment characters all over again, it's a good moment to think about changing your look before re-augmenting.

[Grayseven]

add cost of pulling augment and new agument kit plus installing the kit.

 

That is an entirely different argument.

 

You want to discuss that, fine. I don't think it should cost anything to install an Augment kit. The price of Augment kits alone in materials and time are more that enough.

 

But the cost of pulling mods needs to remain for a variety of reasons. First, it encourages you to actually go out and do something, be it earn credits to afford the swap or earn comms and gear to put into new sets. Second, it's a credit sink and while we have a number of those in the game removing any sink will increase the number of credits in circulation.

 

Ultimately it is up to each individual player to decide if the cost is worth the outcome. I have swapped mods and paid the price for it and consider it to be no more onerous than buying the gear off the GTN in the first place. I dislike the need to add augment slots to every single piece of gear but I pay that as well, though I craft my own kits and augments to avoid the credit cost of buying them off the GTN.

 

In my opinion, Augment Kits should be installed in locations and not on gear...sort of like cybernetics...but the system is what it is and anyone willing to put forth even a modicum of effort can rack up enough credits to change their gear every week.

 

But if you think things are expensive now, imagine how bad it would be without sinks to moderate the continuous creation of credits.

[LordArtemis]

I would agree with this premise, only in so far as it would allow folks to more easily swap between outfits with respect to appearance customization.

 

There are other methods to increase opportunities when it comes to appearance options, but this would be one simple way to make it easier for folks to utilize different appearances.

 

Now, the jury is still out on whether or not basics will get better gear than the current casual cap (148-156) and how easy it will be to generate basic comms. But as a subscriber perk and something that allows folks to have more freedom when it comes to appearance this is something I would support.

[HoloTweed]

I absolutely support this. The price of mod swapping is one of my biggest complaints and one of the biggest hurdles for me when it comes to making Cartel Armor purchases. Removing the cost is absolutely the thing they should do...especially when it's only going to escalate come level 60.

 

I can not stress enough how much the cost of modding impacts their cartel armor sales.

 

But you can see a certain logic in having money sinks, yes? So maybe instead of simply eliminating mod swapping cost, they should tie it into Legacy (another good use for it). I mean face it - if we were just armoring up one character and his trusty companion of choice, doing a reasonable number of FPs & dailies wouldn't be TOO bad.

 

But HOLY HELL, I have something like 14 characters and there's just NO WAY I have the time to run them each through so much content just to cover the cost of mods. Even swapping by legacy armor still carries the price.

 

However, what if the cost of mod swappage was reduced by X% or Y amount when a player reaches Z Legacy? That's, in part, a score of how many characters he's playing. To keep us buying more armors for ALL of our characters, a distinct, scaling % off of mod swapping costs based on Legacy would be a PERFECT way to reward long time (or altaholic - or both) players with something that will encourage them to spend more time, coins and/or cash on TOR.

[Andryah]

I would agree with this premise, only in so far as it would allow folks to more easily swap between outfits with respect to appearance customization.

 

There are other methods to increase opportunities when it comes to appearance options, but this would be one simple way to make it easier for folks to utilize different appearances.

 

Now, the jury is still out on whether or not basics will get better gear than the current casual cap (148-156) and how easy it will be to generate basic comms. But as a subscriber perk and something that allows folks to have more freedom when it comes to appearance this is something I would support.

 

It is unreasonable to expect a complete withdrawal of costs to pull/swap mods. The mechanic is baked into the very core of the game design, and has been since before launch.

 

A reasonable request to reduce the cost has some merit. However, Bioware has the analytics to monitor and if needed adjust the costs.... AS THEY HAVE DONE in the past. So even this lacks much in the way of real foundation IMO.

 

It's a discretionary expense... in that nothing forces you to pull and replace mods, other then ones desire to recycle. People in today's MMOs in many cases are simply lazy and too cheap minded. This MMO drops credits like candy to any player who is even modestly enterprising in how they go about generating in game income. If the cost of pulling mods on occasion is too much for a player... then that player needs to adapt to the circumstances... like everything else inside an MMO.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Andryah

[LordArtemis]

I disagree on a few points, but overall your point is logical, certainly. I would like to address some specifics.

 

It is unreasonable to expect a complete withdrawal of costs to pull/swap mods. The mechanic is baked into the very core of the game design, and has been since before launch.

 

Granted, if one expected that or any other change of it's type. Naturally I always expect prices to RISE, and when they drop I am pleasantly surprised.

 

One could argue that any cost system holds the same distinction, like the cost to upgrade and train new abilities. However, it has been demonstrated that removing these costs seems to be a simple task..at least on the surface, assuming they are in fact similar in nature.

 

A reasonable request to reduce the cost has some merit. However, Bioware has the analytics to monitor and if needed adjust the costs.... AS THEY HAVE DONE in the past. So even this lacks much in the way of real foundation IMO.

 

Frankly I am surprised they do not have MORE money sinks in the game. I found it odd that the Cartel event was designed that way, considering it likely represented a great money sink IMO.

 

In this particular case, however, as you have mentioned they have reduced prices in the past. I'm not sure if removing the cost has any merit other than the points I mentioned....as a subscriber perk. I tend to be very forgiving when it comes to making subscriptions more appealing.

 

It's a discretionary expense... in that nothing forces you to pull and replace mods, other then ones desire to recycle. People in today's MMOs in many cases are simply lazy and too cheap minded. This MMO drops credits like candy to any player who is even modestly enterprising in how they go about generating in game income. If the cost of pulling mods on occasion is too much for a player... then that player needs to adapt to the circumstances... like everything else inside an MMO.

 

I think that the recycle reason is one of many reasons one might wish to remove mods at little to no cost. I think one of the major reasons would be the one I mentioned...the ability to change your appearance. Early on this is not cost prohibitive, but later in the game it does in fact stand as a barrier to customization IMO.

 

Not a particularly strong one, but one none the less.

 

From my perspective this is not strictly about whether or not players are lazy, though I do not disagree that entitlement has grown substantially in modern MMOs. Pointing out the money availability in the game does not stand as evidence against the possibility that the cost represents a barrier at higher levels. The lack of COST would be evident of the lack of a barrier, not available mitigation IMO.

 

Though I agree this is certainly not a vital change, one I support but not one I campaign for, I feel it does have merit for the reasons mentioned despite the opportunities for mitigation that may exist in game at present.

 

The lack of a barrier has far more value than the availability of credits to mitigate cost, or even the reduction of cost. It is all about appearance options and the lack of barriers to those options as perceived by the playerbase.

 

Moving that cost somewhere other than appearance, and/or increasing the appeal of subscriptions are worthy reasons to consider it IMO. I like credit sinks, they keep the market healthy. I do not like them when they are associated with appearance.

 

As far as expecting players to adapt, I say the game must adapt to the market FIRST, players adapting to the game second. The market demands this order unfortunately in my eyes.

[Vhaegrant]

It is unreasonable to expect a complete withdrawal of costs to pull/swap mods. The mechanic is baked into the very core of the game design, and has been since before launch.

Why is it unreasonable?

You could say the cost of going and respeccing is a mechanic baked into the very core of the game design, and had been since before launch... and yet subscribers get free respecs.

 

A reasonable request to reduce the cost has some merit. However, Bioware has the analytics to monitor and if needed adjust the costs.... AS THEY HAVE DONE in the past. So even this lacks much in the way of real foundation IMO.

It's also a request to consider if the mod removal cost has an impact on restricting players uptake of Cartel Gear, either directly or from the GTN. As the game matures and more players start to gather up more alts and companions to equip the associated costs crawl up as well.

If a player is only dealing with a main character it's not too much of a struggle. Start to think about more than 3 or 4 and I think it starts to get prohibitive. Of course only BW have the metrics for this sort of analysis.

 

It's a discretionary expense... in that nothing forces you to pull and replace mods, other then ones desire to recycle. People in today's MMOs in many cases are simply lazy and too cheap minded. This MMO drops credits like candy to any player who is even modestly enterprising in how they go about generating in game income. If the cost of pulling mods on occasion is too much for a player... then that player needs to adapt to the circumstances... like everything else inside an MMO.

If you want a new look it's a mandatory tax over and above what you've already spent to get the mods in the first place and any additional cost of getting the new set of orange gear. If you want that set of gear to be competitive you also need to factor in augment costs. This is not the request of a lazy or cheap minded player.

 

The system as it stands favours the kind of players that don't care what a character looks like (will use legacy sets for any character) and actively penalises those that wish to use their characters as a clothes horse.

[Vhaegrant]

I don't mind the costs for swapping mods out between alts, however, to have to do this when I just want a new look on my character is a bit much...especially with the augmenting costs.

 

Word to the wise though...with 3.0, since you're gonna have to augment characters all over again, it's a good moment to think about changing your look before re-augmenting.

 

That's a nice little bonus of 3.0, another level of crafted mods as well as basic coms being made the entry level means that it will be a good time to refresh the look of some characters and companions as they level up to 60 from 55.