Unexpected side-effect of the lower cartel pack prices...

[OddballEasyEight]

I've been selling cartel packs for credits for a long time and I usually sell them for around 350-370k each.

And using the 1000 credits per CC conversion, that's given me a small profit on the packs compared to what they cost to buy.

 

However, it seems that with these lowered prices, people are just throwing the long established cc/credit ratio out the window.

There's cartel packs on the GTN for 200k when the packs cost 250CC to buy.

I don't get why people do it either. Its not like the packs don't sell.

They were selling like ice cream on a hot sunday at 370k, but then someone put them up for 228k each (yeah, wierd number, I know) and then others put them up for less and so on and so forth.

Of course, those sold first, and then the prices were up to 300k+ again, and still selling.

But then someone put up a hypercrate worth of packs for 220k each.

And the prices went down to 200k each again.

 

I just don't get it.

I know the packs are cheaper now, but are people really that stupid that they'll undercut even to the point of not making a profit any more?

 

I just switched to selling 600k escrows again instead and opened the packs that didn't sell instead.

(out of which I got 2 dathomir chestpieces and alot of other high-priced items so I'm covered there).

 

EDIT: oh and btw, for anyone wanting to whine about how I'm "buying credits", I can just say that I don't have the time to invest in the game any more and this lets me bypass grinding dailies by using some of the money I earn from not playing the game (ie. working) to still keep myself economically afloat in the game.

Edited November 17, 2014 by OddballEasyEight

[BuriDogshin]

I've been selling cartel packs for credits for a long time and I usually sell them for around 350-370k each.

And using the 1000 credits per CC conversion, that's given me a small profit on the packs compared to what they cost to buy.

 

However, it seems that with these lowered prices, people are just throwing the long established cc/credit ratio out the window.

There's cartel packs on the GTN for 200k when the packs cost 250CC to buy.

I don't get why people do it either. Its not like the packs don't sell.

Huge new credit sinks have been introduced into the game.

Plus, people are hoarding credits in anticipation of 3.0, to pay for the new skills, augmentations, etcetera.

Accordingly, deflation may have set in: credits may be worth more than they used to, and as a result the credit-to-CC ratio may have dropped.

 

Alternatively or in addition, it may just be that certain issues with the new cartel packs (e.g. Jareal's tunic issues) may have decreased their desirability.

Edited November 17, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[Aussircaex]

Increased supply at the same demand caused prices to drop? Be still, my heart.

[Orizuru]

I tend to sell a lot of packs as well and have seen similar behavior on the GTN with just about every pack on my server. Sometimes its just bad timing from a foolish undercutter who is followed by a slew of other players who want to sell packs for some quick credits but aren't as familiar with the market value of the packs. Other times though its just the result of more supply than demand for a few days and sometimes even a week or two.

 

I usually stand my ground on my prices and wait for the market to rebound before I list my packs again when they don't sell because of these undercutters. Its always a tough decision for me whether I should open them or not though. Some of the packs can actually go up in value once they are embargoed, but this is almost as big of a gamble as opening them depending on the popularity of the pack and how saturated the market is with the particular items in the pack that are desirable.

[Heezdedjim]

And using the 1000 credits per CC conversion, that's given me a small profit on the packs compared to what they cost to buy.

You're just pulling these numbers out of your ***. The going rate of exchange between CC and credits depends, like everything else, on supply and demand. When more people buy hypercrates and dump them for credits, and fewer people buy packs with credits to open them, the price drops. Nothing about this system has ever suggested that 1,000 credits per CC is the "correct" or even a reasonable or possible going rate of exchange. Whatever the rate works out to at the moment based on what people are willing to sell their packs for is the only "correct" exchange rate.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Heezdedjim

[Aussircaex]

You're just pulling these numbers out of your ***. The going rate of exchange between CC and credits depends, like everything else, on supply and demand. When more people buy hypercrates and dump them for credits, and fewer people buy packs with credits to open them, the price drops. Nothing about this system has ever suggested that 1,000 credits per CC is the "correct" or even a reasonable or possible going rate of exchange. Whatever the rate works out to at the moment based on what people are willing to sell their packs for is the only "correct" exchange rate.

 

^ this, plus, in addition, the real exchange rate of CCs to credits is an AVERAGE. Some items on the CM cost more CCs than their market price in credits would indicate; this is because, of course, the market does not determine the CC prices. For example, race unlocks cost the same in CCs but can vary significantly in credit value.

[Lotharofxev]

I would also imagine that prices vary significantly between servers.

[Icykill_]

I tend to sell a lot of packs as well and have seen similar behavior on the GTN with just about every pack on my server. Sometimes its just bad timing from a foolish undercutter who is followed by a slew of other players who want to sell packs for some quick credits but aren't as familiar with the market value of the packs. Other times though its just the result of more supply than demand for a few days and sometimes even a week or two.

 

I usually stand my ground on my prices and wait for the market to rebound before I list my packs again when they don't sell because of these undercutters. Its always a tough decision for me whether I should open them or not though. Some of the packs can actually go up in value once they are embargoed, but this is almost as big of a gamble as opening them depending on the popularity of the pack and how saturated the market is with the particular items in the pack that are desirable.

 

Sometimes I will buy them off the GTN if people are selling too cheap and then hold onto them... I've been doing this with covert gear for 12 months... They release it in a new pack for a month... Everyone buys the cartel packs, opens and wants to sell the items fast, so they list gear for 15-50k... I buy them... Hold onto them till they are embargoed and resell for 200000-1000000 credits ...

Then you get the people who just have to sell it fast... So instead of undercutting by 1 credit... They'll drop it by a few hundred thousand... Which then leads to panic selling... I've seen items I have been selling all week for 500k each, drop to 50k in a few days... Of course if you have enough credits and patience... That is when you buy them... I have about 40 pink/purple dyes that it got sub 100k... I am now selling them for between 1.2 to 2 mil credits each... All because some people upset the balance of the market... The dyes had been selling at a steady price of 500k... Once the panic set in, everyone tried to off load them quickly... It reminds me so much of the panic merchants at a stock exchange

I never understand why people throw away potential credits... Like when an item is hard to come by and people want it... But someone undercuts the only listed one by half???... Sure they sell it... But they would have sold it anyway at a much higher price

Occasionally if a few people are selling an item a lot less than it should be... And I can't be bothered buying them... I will list one myself but over inflate the price... ie they are selling at 120k... I might list at 1 mil... Just to try and push the price back up... I will stand my ground and eventually the price usually goes back up above the price it should be

[LeJarC]

I've been selling cartel packs for credits for a long time and I usually sell them for around 350-370k each.

And using the 1000 credits per CC conversion, that's given me a small profit on the packs compared to what they cost to buy.

 

However, it seems that with these lowered prices, people are just throwing the long established cc/credit ratio out the window.

 

You are overlooking the effect from 12x XP. Folks need credits to buy gear upgrades.

[Deewe]

Bought packs at 165k and some at even 145k lately, too bad I was broke or I would have bought all of them.

 

Offer and demand, as simple as that.

 

Same thing with mats, been focusing on mats lately and the same green mat that usually goes around 2 500 on my server can sell up to 6 000 each down to under 700.

 

By the way if you really want the best money for your CC, packs aren't that good. Some of the single decos that you get from 90CC to 110CC sells over 4 times their price. ie > 450k each.

 

So for the price of a single pack you can get +1M right now, without even waiting

[Levram]

people are just throwing the long established cc/credit ratio out the window.

 

A trend only has a restrictive value that you assign in your own mind. People are free to sell packs, or other Cartel Market items, for any amount of credits that they find to be personally acceptable. Your exact personal value system is likely not held by anyone other than yourself.

 

Perhaps they bought the packs with their excess monthly subscriber Cartel Coins that they receive for free, and therefore selling those packs for any amount of credits constitutes a profit for them.

 

Also, are you sure that 1 CC = 1,000 credits is even a "long established" ratio on any other server but your own?

Edited November 17, 2014 by Levram

[DarthDymond]

Prices have definitely dropped as a result of the lower CC prices, as would be expected, but I dispute your notion that a "long established credit/CC ratio" of 1000-to-1 ever really existed.

 

Since GTN prices somewhat normalized over the course of the first Shipment I've never paid more than 300K for a pack, and usually only bought ones around 250K. With the cheaper Stronghold packs, I don't pay more than 200K, usually buying when they're around 160-170K.

 

Buying only at those prices, I have gotten Legend rep for every CM reputation (except the Stronghold Rep, I'm at Champion and still grinding that one) but have never bought CCs for packs - just used my stipends and the GTN. Easily 90% of all packs I've acquired have been through the GTN.

 

On the other hand, I see that the CZX Blaster Pistol (500 CCs on the Market) is selling for about 1.8 million credits right now.

 

Server: Pot5

[Danylia]

I know the packs are cheaper now, but are people really that stupid that they'll undercut even to the point of not making a profit any more?

Underlined the important part.

 

You can't really talk about "profit", because in case of CM packs, people invested apples (Cartel Coins) to get oranges (Credits). Or in other words: the 1 CC = 1000 Credits ratio is artifical, because nowhere in the game you can pay 1 CC and get 1000 credits as a result of direct transaction.

[Grayseven]

I bought a bunch of Architect packs for 140k credits yesterday, but I can't find a Character Slot unlock for under 990k.

 

I think the 1000 to 1 ratio has just be debunked.

[MSchuyler]

If you REALLY believe the price for ANY item on the GTN is "too low," then BUY it, Put it back on the GTN when prices rebound, if they do. That's a risk you take.

 

The GTN is complex, especially with Bioware manipulating it. For example, Gold scalene armor was VERY popular for awhile and sold for high prices on the GTN, especially after Bioware embargoed it and stopped selling it. So I bought a set with my 'free' CCs with the intention of selling it. But then Bioware brought it back and the price dropped. Then the price creeped back up and Bioware brought it back for A SINGLE DAY and people grabbed it, and the price dropped again.

 

Stuff like that happens all the time.

[Eldrenath]

You're assuming a perfectly sliding scale for the credit to cartel coin ratio.

 

Clearly, at lower prices the demand for packs increase. Therefore, the number of people entering the marketplace increases. Simply put, more people are buying cartel packs when the price is lower. Some buy to open and use, some to sell. In any event, there is now a much greater supply of cartel packs and more competition as more players are selling more packs. As a result, prices are falling.

 

As some have pointed out, demand for many items has fallen in anticipation of 3.0. I, for one, and spending almost nothing. I'm hoarding my credits to buy new skills, new gear, new augmentation kits and augments, etc. So I'm spending far, far less than I was 2 months ago. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

I won't lie, I have often been guilty of undercutting. Because I absolutely do not want to list, relist, relist, relist. I want to put it on the market and get it sold as fast as I possibly can. I do not want to manage sales, I want to play. I want to spend as little time dealing with the GTN as I possibly can, it's a distraction to me from what I really want to do: run FPs, run ops, level alts, etc etc.

 

For example, I don't really like decorating my stronghold at all, so whenever I get a housing item it goes right on the market. For me, my stronghold is nothing more than a quick travel and storage location, it has no value other than that. It's full of posters and chairs, whatever fills the rooms and gives me a stronghold bonus to conquest. And if I get a rare housing item from an op or a pack, it goes right on the market. And if I see that the minimum price is $250,000, I very often just list it for $220,000 or sometimes even less. Sometimes I'll drop it down by 30-50%. Because experience has told me that demand can be VERY fluid and hard to predict, so I end up relisting again and again. Sure, eventually I get the original price. But I want to shoot things and go pew pew, I don't want to spend time analyzing virtual economic trends. I want it sold and FAST. I do not want to relist EVER.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Eldrenath

[TheNahash]

The CC to Credits ratio is a lie, Jedi.

 

There is no ratio,

there is supply and demand.

[TUXs]

I've been selling cartel packs for credits for a long time and I usually sell them for around 350-370k each.

And using the 1000 credits per CC conversion, that's given me a small profit on the packs compared to what they cost to buy.

 

However, it seems that with these lowered prices, people are just throwing the long established cc/credit ratio out the window.

There's cartel packs on the GTN for 200k when the packs cost 250CC to buy.

I don't get why people do it either. Its not like the packs don't sell.

They were selling like ice cream on a hot sunday at 370k, but then someone put them up for 228k each (yeah, wierd number, I know) and then others put them up for less and so on and so forth.

Of course, those sold first, and then the prices were up to 300k+ again, and still selling.

But then someone put up a hypercrate worth of packs for 220k each.

And the prices went down to 200k each again.

 

I just don't get it.

I know the packs are cheaper now, but are people really that stupid that they'll undercut even to the point of not making a profit any more?

 

I just switched to selling 600k escrows again instead and opened the packs that didn't sell instead.

(out of which I got 2 dathomir chestpieces and alot of other high-priced items so I'm covered there).

 

EDIT: oh and btw, for anyone wanting to whine about how I'm "buying credits", I can just say that I don't have the time to invest in the game any more and this lets me bypass grinding dailies by using some of the money I earn from not playing the game (ie. working) to still keep myself economically afloat in the game.

 

Free market son, people can sell them for whatever they deem reasonable. Your prices are out of line for what they go for on my server and I can't help but claim (as you mentioned we would) that this is just you whining over not being able to get as much as you want.

 

If you don't have time to play the game, don't.

[JattaGin]

(...)

But then someone put up a hypercrate worth of packs for 220k each.

And the prices went down to 200k each again.

 

Yesterday, there was this guy who sold 10 hypercrates for 4.5 million each. Have you seen his offer? That's 187.500 per piece. First I calculated how much real life moolah he spent, then I wondered how many million credits I could make by buying some of the crates and then re-selling them with 2 million plus per crate. At the end, I only bought a schematic for 500 credits and sold it for 890 credits to the vendor.

[Eldrenath]

Free market son, people can sell them for whatever they deem reasonable. Your prices are out of line for what they go for on my server and I can't help but claim (as you mentioned we would) that this is just you whining over not being able to get as much as you want.

 

If you don't have time to play the game, don't.

 

100% agree. I think I said more or less the same thing, just TUXs stated it much more effectively and succinctly.

[TUXs]

100% agree. I think I said more or less the same thing, just TUXs stated it much more effectively and succinctly.

Whatever lol, you stated it far more diplomatically than I did. /bow

[DarthTHC]

It's not news that most people don't think very deeply when they post stuff to the GTN.

 

But that's fine. If they get what they want and someone else gets a deal or gets to re-post for effort-free profit, everyone wins, right?

 

As a thinking person, you've made the right move by switching to items with a better exchange rate.

 

BTW, on my server, someone should post an account-wide cargo hold unlock for a reasonable conversion rate.

[Oneirophrenia]

And using the 1000 credits per CC conversion, that's given me a small profit on the packs compared to what they cost to buy.

 

However, it seems that with these lowered prices, people are just throwing the long established cc/credit ratio out the window.

 

Therein lies your problem. There is no "long established" exchange rate between CC and Credits. It was never a fixed exchange rate but rather a floating one. Even in the real world exchange rates are prone to huge fluctuations given economic conditions so within the game it is all but expected.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[OddballEasyEight]

I was gonna quote a bunch of the posts and answer them individually, but then I realized that would be a huuuuuge post.

 

So I'll try to answer most of the posts here in one single post.

 

First: Long established cc-credit ratio.

Of course this only applies to my server. But that doesn't matter since I'm only selling on my server. But yes, it's been long established since I've been keeping track of the prices of most direct-purchase cartel market items on the GTN.

And yes, of course it's an average.

But it's extremely rare to see prices drop below the 1000-1 exchange rates unless it's something people bought in bulk trying to sell that then turned out to not be very popular (like the Kyber assault cannon).

In other words, I'm not saying that the excange rate is a fixed 1000 to 1, but rather that is the common exchange rate used in most cases as the norm, or at least the bare minimum.

 

Second: Supply and demand.

Yes, prices go lower when supply supercedes demand.

Point is here that it didn't. The packs have been selling like cupcakes, as usual. And for the usual prices. But then some moro... eeh... "less economically interested person" bought three hypercrates worth of packs and puts them all up for 228k each.

That's a full 142k cheaper than the cheapest ones on sale at that time (which were mine at 370k).

That's not undercutting.

That's madness. (or highly irregular and illogical at least).

 

Third: Making a profit.

Yes, this is based on the long established cc-credit ratio (like I explained earlier, it IS long established on my server).

And furthermore it is, of course, based on what the price of the cheapest item is (in this case I was cheapest at 370k), and undercutting by over 100k is not profitable in general when the higher priced item is selling.

 

Fourth:

Huge new credit sinks have been introduced into the game.

Plus, people are hoarding credits in anticipation of 3.0, to pay for the new skills, augmentations, etcetera.

Accordingly, deflation may have set in: credits may be worth more than they used to, and as a result the credit-to-CC ratio may have dropped.

This is actually the only response I'll use a quote on. As he's got a point. This is most likely why the massive undercutting happened in the first place.

 

Fifth: "If you don't have time to play the game, don't."

Well, if you have nothing nice to say, don't.

I HAVE time to play the game. But I only have time to either grind dailies to keep myself economically stable, or to play the storylines of my alts.

Not both.

And since I'm an altaholic that spends his time recording the storylines, I chose the second and used real cash to buy cartel packs to sell for credits to buy whatevers new in the next cartel pack and mods and equipment and so on.

Edited November 17, 2014 by OddballEasyEight

[Oyranos]

I buy lots of packs and the architect pack in the beggining cost 400-500k

 

now it costs 200-250 and some people complain... well I am happy for it!

 

Was it fair to buy it for 250 and sell it 500? Didnt see any topic about it...

Edited November 17, 2014 by Oyranos