Petition to Stop Disciplines "Improvement"

[Sorwen]

While I agree the system is a big step backwards, if they actually cared about our opinion they would have asked before they started developing it. I'm all for not being shoved into a Play-Doh mold, but I don't think any thing will change that.

[Pscyon]

Serious question: has any online petition ever, in the history of history, made a difference?

[Jadescythe]

While I agree the system is a big step backwards, if they actually cared about our opinion they would have asked before they started developing it. I'm all for not being shoved into a Play-Doh mold, but I don't think any thing will change that.

 

I'd be curious for you to link a spec that you play today so we can see how different it is than the play-doh mold spec everyone else uses. Unless you truly like to do something unique that reduces your effectiveness, I'd say it's no more than 2-3 abilities different than what I or anyone else would make.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'd be curious for you to link a spec that you play today so we can see how different it is than the play-doh mold spec everyone else uses. Unless you truly like to do something unique that reduces your effectiveness, I'd say it's no more than 2-3 abilities different than what I or anyone else would make.

 

I posted the Cor/Mad blend that I noodled out on my Sorc and have been using in some form since I hit 50 and then 55... those who were trying to be civil commented on it honestly, the rest just ignored it in favor of continuing to tell me that whatever spec I was using had to be copy-pasted from the internet no matter what it was.

[iDraxter]

Serious question: has any online petition ever, in the history of history, made a difference?

Serious answer: Didn`t BW switch Tracer missile and Fusion missile animations at the request of such a petition from the players?

 

Or how about BW including Male X Male and Female X Female flirting options with the launch of 2.0 and onward at player demand?

Edited October 14, 2014 by iDraxter

[fujeo-finell]

Serious answer: Didn`t BW switch Tracer missile and Fusion missile animations at the request of such a petition from the players?

 

Why does Bioware listen to morons?

[Icestar]

This change will happen, and I actually look foward to it

[Lt-Snake]

everyone will have the same definitive spec for PVE and PVP, same as most do now nothing will be unique, unless u decide to use pvp untily for pve and vice versa :p:p

[XL-Jedi]

It's comical...

 

Reason given for Disciplines... "Current system wreaks havoc with class balance" is what I'm hearing?

 

I honestly could care less if classes are balanced. They outta just leave it wide-open and let people have at it as far as I'm concerned. 60 points to spend... your choice, you go build what you want. Don't even care if every tool in PvP is running around with the same DPS-Stealth-Healer build or not. Let em go already. I've disliked the class constraints from the start. Is a DPS with a saber-staff unheard of? I can't choose to train force pull/push on my own?

 

They think they have a plan now to control the balance? As they say, most fool-proof plans fail to take into consideration the amazing ingenuity of the average fool. ...and we'll continue to see nerfs/buffs just as frequently as before. People will still find some little niche to carve out some little unanticipated advantage, and scissors will cry foul when rock beats em up.

[Pscyon]

Serious answer: Didn`t BW switch Tracer missile and Fusion missile animations at the request of such a petition from the players?

Not that I'm aware of, but then I've never hung around the class forums. Link?

 

Or how about BW including Male X Male and Female X Female flirting options with the launch of 2.0 and onward at player demand?

More like dozens of threads and posts from pre-release until... actually still, people want more of it. Point being, that wasn't done in one fell swoop as result of a single petition, it was the result of consistent badgering over a prolonged amount of time.

[agamemnon-]

It's comical...

 

Reason given for Disciplines... "Current system wreaks havoc with class balance" is what I'm hearing?

 

I honestly could care less if classes are balanced. They outta just leave it wide-open and let people have at it as far as I'm concerned. 60 points to spend... your choice, you go build what you want. Don't even care if every tool in PvP is running around with the same DPS-Stealth-Healer build or not. Let em go already. I've disliked the class constraints from the start. Is a DPS with a saber-staff unheard of? I can't choose to train force pull/push on my own?

 

They think they have a plan now to control the balance? As they say, most fool-proof plans fail to take into consideration the amazing ingenuity of the average fool. ...and we'll continue to see nerfs/buffs just as frequently as before. People will still find some little niche to carve out some little unanticipated advantage, and scissors will cry foul when rock beats em up.

 

All of that would still lead to cookie cutter builds. Most people would want, according to general consensus, the best build for getting through an operation fast, or fighting in PvP. Anything else would be seen as a gimping of ones effectiveness.

[Halinalle]

It's comical...

 

Reason given for Disciplines... "Current system wreaks havoc with class balance" is what I'm hearing?

 

I honestly could care less if classes are balanced. They outta just leave it wide-open and let people have at it as far as I'm concerned. 60 points to spend... your choice, you go build what you want. Don't even care if every tool in PvP is running around with the same DPS-Stealth-Healer build or not. Let em go already. I've disliked the class constraints from the start. Is a DPS with a saber-staff unheard of? I can't choose to train force pull/push on my own?

 

They think they have a plan now to control the balance? As they say, most fool-proof plans fail to take into consideration the amazing ingenuity of the average fool. ...and we'll continue to see nerfs/buffs just as frequently as before. People will still find some little niche to carve out some little unanticipated advantage, and scissors will cry foul when rock beats em up.

 

If you want "give me everything now" class then go play EVE (Yes, I know... It will take 20+ years irl but it is possible).

 

Balance is the most important part of MMO, PvP or PvE. "Leave my OP class alone and just buff everything else" doesn't work in MMOs.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Halinalle

[TheCardinal]

A petition isn't going to stop it. They've spent time and effort into creating this, and I doubt they'll just throw it away because a few players are afraid to try it out.

 

 

No why will not do that, but in the end this might work or it might kill the game.

 

To force a player base into a narrow corner will kill the game, most of my IRL friends have left for good.

 

I left for a year, should this fail, in my way to play I will join them on the other side and cancel my sub and leave for good too.

 

Regardless of there reasons, they remove the FREE Options you have now, to narrow it donw to what suites them, that in it self will fail.

 

So to the OP, yes I do agree they should NOT change the combat system again.

[BuriDogshin]

This petition is premature.

 

The new system goes live on the invite-only PTS in a week or so, and while I am pretty sure it will be fenced by an NDA, I am also pretty sure rumors and impressions will get out. After that occurs, then the opinions expressed on this thread might have an ounce of credibility and relevance. But right now it's just a bunch of ignorant posturing and the occasional sane rebuttals thereof.

[LordArtemis]

A petition isn't going to stop it. They've spent time and effort into creating this, and I doubt they'll just throw it away because a few players are afraid to try it out.

 

 

Perhaps, but think its important to hear all opinions on this, pro and con.

[ReynDacen]

I think that there will be a bigger audience that dont care so much about the new change and will stay when it is live and that the ones that dont like this at all will not hurt the game but as some one stated the system isnt even live and we know very little about it so lets judge when it is here. And for myself i liked the old skill tree but i will still play SWTOR when they change it a bit because i like the rest of what the game has to offer and i can adapt to changes.

[CelCawdro]

The funny part is, the effect of this on actual gameplay is going to be nearly nil.

[EarnestBunbury]

All of that would still lead to cookie cutter builds. Most people would want, according to general consensus, the best build for getting through an operation fast, or fighting in PvP. Anything else would be seen as a gimping of ones effectiveness.

 

Absolutely, just like it is today... one spec will parse higher than another and will be the "go to" spec, er... discipline.

[Max_Killjoy]

The funny part is, the effect of this on actual gameplay is going to be nearly nil.

 

All the more reason to not do it, at least not in the form we've seen in the previews.

 

Absolutely, just like it is today... one spec will parse higher than another and will be the "go to" spec, er... discipline.

 

Exactly -- from what we know so far, we're losing all that potential variation, for the single actual benefit of making the skill system more friendly to future level cap increases.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Zoom_VI]

Dude just stop, the skill trees where never really designed to go past level 50. 55 was pushing it. We knew that theywould have to do something with the level raise to take care of the unwieldy trees. Either locking the trees so you have to spec fully into one tree or via another method.

 

The writing was on the wall. We knew something like this would have to come with any level cap raise.

 

 

 

And as I have said before the new system offers near complete choice in terms of utility options. In playing around with dulfy's discipline calculator any reasonable person would realize that the amount of choice in the utility is far more than we have now.

 

But hey if you must wallow in your own confirmation bais, at least do the service of not trying to drag others into your ignorance.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[thoorax]

I will start by saying that completely bashing a idea before even seeing more than one adv. class showcased is ridiculous.

 

My first thoughts when I heard about disciplines were along the lines that "everything will change", "it is being idiotproofed" and of course "We will have no more choice". After that, and seeing the first stream about the system, I changed my mind, after really thinking about what would change many of these fears were misplaced.

 

The biggest thing ppl need to realize is that what you call choice is not a true choice. In order to preform the best there will be a top build, even with skill trees, no matter how much we say skill trees lets you place 46 points where ever we want it is not true. There is no choice, it is a illusion, assuming you have the will to preform the best in given fights the only points free to spend are what now will be called utility points. I do not know for a fact that all the useful things you considered speccing intowith skill trees will be moved to utility but neither do I know that they wont, if the sorc demonstion is any indication I would say odds are they will.

 

Another thing constantly brought up in this thread is hybrids. You keep saying this will kill hybrids. I dont know about you but as long as I have played this game the devs have made it clear that hybrids have no place, they wont balance around it and they will cruch them given enough time. You keep saying that is the problem with this new system but to me it has always been clear that hybrids will die, this system is a very effective way from the devs to realize that goal. I am willing to bet if this system would not have been included in 3.0 they would probably have devoted some time to kill the very hybrid you loved.

 

With that being said there is another problem with this, something really proven with this thread. The question wheather the illusion of choice is still needed. This thread really makes you believe that it really still has a place. As a friend said "the current live system is a relic of the past" and perhaps it is still needed and perhaps the devs took a too big leap since ppl naturally are reluctant to big change, I know I am.

[Quraswren]

I don't want to stop it because I think overall it's a better move.

 

However, Right now there are way to many PVP skills vs PVE for me at least on the sorcerers skills we have seen.

 

So far, I'm not entirely sold on it. For a PVE healer, I see pretty much everyone having the the same builds.

 

There isn't enough interesting choices.

[agamemnon-]

All the more reason to not do it, at least not in the form we've seen in the previews.

 

 

 

Exactly -- from what we know so far, we're losing all that potential variation, for the single actual benefit of making the skill system more friendly to future level cap increases.

 

Except there is no potential variation. There has never been variation with the current system.

 

I don't care either way; they could keep the current tree and I'd still play or institute discipline and I would probably still play. But to say the current system somehow gives us the huge amount of choices for builds is laughable at best.

 

As someone posted before in another thread, you either have to do something like this or keep raising the level at which certain abilities in certain trees are gotten.

 

It would get to a point where sorcs with thundering blast are procing crushing darkness with death field's death mark while being able to crit thundering blast with affliction, which in turn has increased damage due to death mark. That might be a bit difficult to balance without hurting just one thing.

Edited October 15, 2014 by agamemnon-

[TheSeventhJedi]

I do not believe this new system will improve the gameplay at all. It will just confuse the long time players and ruin almost every single build we currently have. While Bioware may think this is great b/c everyone will be starting over like its a new game... however it will not be great. Disciplines' will kill this game. Please post below if you are opposed to the new Disciplines system. If you like the system, that's your opinion and you are welcome to it. This post is to show Bioware that we do not want this "improvement"! This thread is not to debate whether or not the Disciplines system will be effective.

 

I refuse to purchase the expansion until the Discipline system is removed.

 

I believe this new system will improve gameplay a lot. It will help the long-time players and make viable almost every single build we currently have. While Bioware may this this is great because they're taking a broken system and making it better ... they're right! Disciplines will grow this game. Please post below if you are opposed to threads judging the Disciplines system before they've even tried it. If you don't like the system, that's your opinion (obviously), but you are Chicken Little. This post is to show Bioware that we welcome their continued improvement! This thread is not to debate how ineffective petitions will be.

[agamemnon-]

For a PVE healer, I see pretty much everyone having the the same builds.

 

There isn't enough interesting choices.

 

I doubt pure healers within the same class were using different (or drastically different) specs from every other pure healer within said class to begin with.

Edited October 15, 2014 by agamemnon-