The Scam/Not a Scam debate storyline

[azudelphi]

You may be right on all points except the last one. There is no reason for this NOT to be changed.

 

The seller can still do all of the things you indicate in your post. The change protects noone, neither sellers nor buyers, nor does it stop folks from over or undercharging.

 

What it does do is remove confusing fractional currency. Quite a few of the suggestions would be useful to the majority of the playerbase IMO....as was the sort by price and price per unit feature.

 

I don't see the problem with fractional currency for the purposes of price per unit.

 

As I have stated elsewhere, no where in this game can the symbols ever exist in a way that can be confusing. Nor can they ever be presented in such a way to have 3 places beyond the decimal point...

 

In other words, it shouldn't be possible to confuse:

X,XXX,XXX for XX,XXX.XX

OR

X.XXX.XXX for XX.XXX,XX

 

And the following will never show up on the GTN:

X,XXX.XXX

X.XXX,XXX

 

I am entirely okay with going to a unified 2 places even for integer price per unit items, but come on... in theory no change should be needed because the syntax of the game doesn't even allow for the supposed confusion.

 

And I am against removing the decimals because I prefer more accurate data when I make a purchase.

Edited November 10, 2014 by azudelphi

[CmdrShpd]

For every new thread that is started on this topic, I think I'm going to list a dozen items on the gtn at "scam-y" prices. Serioustly, there has to be at least 6 threads on this one topic on the front page alone.

 

Edit: I just counted. It's 8 threads currently on the front page.

Edited November 10, 2014 by CmdrShpd

[hadoken]

How is it an issue with the decimal system?

 

Well it didn't happen to me so I'm not positive, but it seems to me unless you're actually able to spend half a credit there's no reason to have the decimals in the first place. I suppose people who are familiar with the workings of (and often play) other games where the pointless decimals are non existent might have difficulty realizing they were there in the first place.

[BaronV]

 

"Thank you My Lord. From Dromund Kaas, speaking Khalisah bint Sinan al-Jilani, from Compleatly Different Game. Good day. "[/i]

 

this part made my day. Hats off to you sir!

Edited November 10, 2014 by BaronV

[OddballEasyEight]

Didn't you know?

 

If someone isn't paying attention when they put up an item for sale and sell it for way less than they wanted, it's their own fault.

If someone isn't paying attention when they buy an item and buy it for alot more than they wanted to, it's someone elses fault.

 

In one case, the victim wasn't paying attention.

In the other case, the victiom was "scammed".

 

I mean, it's clear as day, isn't it?

[LordArtemis]

All prices *are* in whole credits. The Unit Price listing is for YOUR convenience for quick comparisons.

 

If someone goes and only looks at Unit price then gets mad because the actual cost of the item was the sale price and not the unit price they have only them selves to blame.

 

But if someone looks at fractional pricing in the per unit category and finds it unnecessary what does that make them then?

 

Here is how I think this argument pans out.

 

Buyers that have been burned by their own mistake want to protect themselves from it in the future. This, or any type of change to the GTN would not protect them from making this kind of mistake again, since the mistake is their own fault.

 

Sellers that may have utilized this method in the past to try and catch those silly enough to fall for it will still have the ability to do so. Removing fractional currency display would not stop a seller from inflating their price.

 

The argument on both sides is protectionism IMO. Buyers want to protect themselves, Sellers want to protect themselves. And both efforts are silly because no protections can be provided to either side.

 

The reason to remove fractional currency display is the same reason to add price sort, or price per unit, or partial name search...it is a convenience QoL change.

 

I support the idea of adding flags, so I can mark sellers that engage in bad selling practices, and those that i wish to give my patronage on a regular basis.

 

I also support the idea of removing the display of fractional currency AND the ability to price items per unit.

 

All three would be QoL features that would not protect sellers or buyers.

Edited November 10, 2014 by LordArtemis

[TUXs]

Silly eh?

 

but, then again, the folks who have put the mats on there, are folks who have done just that, crew skilling, picking them from the field, or on a strong-mob killing spree.

 

Anyone can do it. So what I'm trying to say if if they Cba to pay attention ( ) they might go, and to that instead...

which is also free.

 

Edit: and also, this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_my_French

Right...people who had the appropriate skill and an excess on materials that I need for something. Without the right skills, I can't get certain items. Doesn't mean I don't still want/need them...which is where the GTN comes in.

 

I know players need to pay attention, but the GTN UI is abysmal at best. The sorting default is random as hell and the other sort options are poorly done. If players are having an issue with it, I believe Bioware should address it...it's in their best interest anyway.

[EricMusco]

Hey folks,

 

There has been a lot of chatter this weekend in General Discussion around how players are posting on the GTN, specifically around use of decimals/commas, and whether we feel it is an exploit or not. For starters, we definitely don't want to see any players scammed out of their hard earned credits and we will work to stop those situations wherever possible. Unfortunately, this is not one of those scenarios.

 

What someone is doing in this scenario is posting something at a higher value than the market would typically have that item listed for. For us, it would be impossible to tell if a user was posting an item at a higher value to try to "scam" another user, or simply because that is what they want to sell it for.

 

When purchasing items on the GTN, aside from the initial sorting and purchase we also have a secondary window pop-up as confirmation of sale. If you feel you are at risk of buying something off of the GTN at an intended value, take your time! Make sure to read over exactly what they are selling it for and then double check that number when you receive the pop-up. Also, we highly recommend using the sorting functions for both total and unit prices to make sure you are paying what you want.

 

With that in mind, I am going to pass these issues back to the dev team and see if there is anything we can work towards in the future for the GTN to help alleviate these issues. Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

[Daewan]

That won't happen. It's up to the people who design the UI to make it idiot proof.

 

But then the GTN will just attract a different class of idiot.

[OddballEasyEight]

I haven't.

And yes, that doesn't mean I feel the practice isn't wrong, and some people -possibly my group mates somewhere on planets/flashpoints my fall for this.

 

What I see is a bunch of people exploiting others inattention, possibly ruining this game for them. And bunch of other people, on these forums that seem to applaud this and wish to defend/maintain current situation.

The first group -well, they are immoral scammers, probably the kind of people that steal when no one's watching.

The other group -it is beyond me. Todays children of internet perhaps?

 

Haven't seen anyone applauding or even defending the people putting stuff up on sale on the GTN.

 

Just people who keep saying "buyers beware" and that people need to start paying attention to what they are doing.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Didn't you know?

 

If someone isn't paying attention when they put up an item for sale and sell it for way less than they wanted, it's their own fault.

If someone isn't paying attention when they buy an item and buy it for alot more than they wanted to, it's someone elses fault.

 

In one case, the victim wasn't paying attention.

In the other case, the victiom was "scammed".

 

I mean, it's clear as day, isn't it?

 

Spot on this is correct.

[Andryah]

I'd like to start with the fact there is no such thing a "scam" on the GTN, I'm just using the popular terminology.

 

Buyer/scammer sees ITEM X for 50,000 when ITEM X is normally 500,000. The innocent seller clearly forgot a zero since they had been playing all day and was very tired and not paying attention.

 

The buyer/scammer, knowing this is an error, buys the item for 50,000 and pats themselves on the back for a great deal they got and then also brags to everyone else about it, even calling the innocent seller a moron for listing it so low. Then, the buyer/scammer may use it or re-list it for 500,000, or ever 450,000, to make a nice easy profit.

 

"Oh, no, this isn't a scam! It's called bargain-hunting!" is what the buyers/scammers will say.

The buyer/scammer knowingly buys the item that is mistakenly priced so they "scammed" the innocent seller who had no idea of the error.

 

It's ok when it works in your favour, right? But when it doesn't it's time to cry bloody murder on the forums. The buyer/scammers are more than happy to take advantage of an inattentive seller but as soon as it doesn't go their way it's time to cry here playing a ridiculous "I'm the victim" card.

 

It's so, so sad.

 

Hehe... well played.

 

On a serious note though, regarding people mis-listing a price.... yeah it can happen if the seller is not paying attention. But it is the seller that decides when to push the sell button so yeah it's on the seller. The buyer is just taking advantage of a deal freely posted in the market.

 

That said, I understand that people do make mistakes, particularly when listing an item for sale. I have done it myself a few times. And I take responsibility for my mistakes and don't blame them on others and don't demand Bioware protect me from myself. The most common is when the GTN UI reverts the price to default listing price, which again only happens if the player is fiddling with things and not paying attention.

 

Now...IF I see a rare/expensive CM item at a clearly low price that indicates either default list price or a missing decimal place..... I will snap it up and then send an email to the seller and confirm with them their intentions. I've sent back several items that cost many CCs to sellers that responded courteously to my email. I make plenty of credits working the market, so giving back to an honest mistake is not an impact to me and it feeds goodwill forward in the game.

 

Interestingly enough.... I one time purchased an expensive direct purchase CM item for less then 10% of market price. Clearly mis-listed. The seller contacted me and politely asked me to kick in some more credits to cover his/her mistake. He/she was offering me a significant end price discount, clearly taking some responsibility for his/her error, while still seeking to limit his/her loss. What I did instead was CoD it back to him for the price I paid so that he could resell if he wanted at market price and be 100% whole on the deal.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Andryah

[TUXs]

Thank you Eric!

[LordArtemis]

Thank you Mr Musco. Here are the suggestions so far...I see them as QoL changes that would be nice to have. If you see any you think might be relevant and wish to pass them on, I appreciate it.

 

1) The ability to ignore a character name on the GTN, so the items sold by that character are not shown in searches.

2) The ability to place a red flag on sellers you do not like, green flag on ones you prefer, and a sort function to move red flags to the bottom of a search, green flags to the top. Only you would see the flags you apply.

3) Remove the ability for the system to display fractional currency in the "price per unit" field.

4) Have the formatting right justified instead of left justified.

5) Have the ignore list also apply to the GTN.

6) Change total price to price per unit, or just add a price per unit option for posting items for sale.

7) Default the GTN to sorting by lowest price first, or lowest per unit price.

8) Larger text for the price display.

 

Any of them would be welcome changes IMO.

 

I would personally love to see the ability to price per unit when placing a sale, and having a flag system so I could flag sellers based on how I rate them...for my eyes only. The flag with a sort function would be very convenient.

 

It seems the ability to price items per unit as an option is the most popular suggestion.

Edited November 10, 2014 by LordArtemis

[ninjonxb]

Now can we have the 10+ threads about it merged or closed so we can just one one thread on the topic? (Except maybe the satire one... I like that one ^.^

[OddballEasyEight]

Because when the buyer buys the item he will realise he heavily overpaid for the item, he will then check the GTN again and discover the same person is putting the same items for the same high price. The buyer willl check other prices and see the high price and the low price ones look similar ( becuase of the way the numbers are displayed )

 

This will upset the buyer because they will feel cheated of their money. It prevents the buyer from enjoying the game. Therefore against the TOS.

 

&he's wrong because I've just proven him wrong.

 

Well in that case it applies to all those other situations I described earlier as well.

 

Someone ninjas your loot? ToS broken, ban the sucker.

Someone wipes on your FP HM run? ToS broken, ban the sucker.

Someone buys your very expensive item that you accidentally put up for millions of credits less than it's going price? ToS broken, ban the sucker.

Someone boosts past you to attack the mob you were lining up a channeled attack on? ToS broken, ban the sucker.

 

Seriously, you can't claim ToS broken on anyone that annoys you or takes advantage of your inattention.

 

And no he's not wrong because you didn't prove jack.

[Thurinor]

There is no scam *waves hand*

[MeinChurro]

I have never been scammed like this. When will people learn to sort by price properly.

[Anniahilus]

BW has spoken ... may the threads now stop?!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=775025

[Grayseven]

Actually, it is simpler than that.

 

Instead of "price per unit" of 3574.15 it would be 3574.

 

There is no need for the fractional currency display.

 

Except for the simple little fact that this would limit people to selling anything that can stack in even numbers.

 

Oh, and most people are smart enough to realize that the numbers after the decimal only go to two places, while the numbers after commas go to three places.

 

In other words 1,000,500 is one million five hundred credits and 1,000.50 is one thousand and one half a credit.

 

The OP obviously wasn't paying attention, got burned and now expects EA/BW to do something about his lack of care when buying...that much is obvious from the sheer number of threads he's started on this topic.

 

Since this is a "known thing" that there are people out there fishing for the careless shoppers, I find it surprising that people are still falling for this.

 

Ultimately, there is no rule in place that states items have to be sold for reasonable prices and it is up to the buyer to make certain they are paying the expected price. Asking EA/BW to protect you from yourself is a bit silly.

[Thurinor]

Thank you Mr Musco. Here are the suggestions so far...I see them as QoL changes that would be nice to have. If you see any you think might be relevant and wish to pass them on, I appreciate it.

 

1) The ability to ignore a character name on the GTN, so the items sold by that character are not shown in searches.

2) The ability to place a red flag on sellers you do not like, green flag on ones you prefer, and a sort function to move red flags to the bottom of a search, green flags to the top. Only you would see the flags you apply.

3) Remove the ability for the system to display fractional currency.

4) Have the formatting right justified instead of left justified.

5) Have the ignore list also apply to the GTN.

6) Change total price to price per unit, or just add a price per unit option for posting items for sale.

 

Any of them would be welcome changes IMO.

 

If anyone "needs" these changes to enable them to not buy things for way overprice on a very clear marketplace I suggest their ability to leave the house unaided be reassessed. There will be far greater dangers they will be susceptible too if this is an issue for them.

[ImmortalLowlife]

Let's assume that you needed to upgrade the motherboard on your computer. The one you want cost $225. You browse the web and find someone advertising that same motherboard:

 

TODAY ONLY, $17499

 

You jump at the opportunity to save $50, but the following day, you find a charge to your credit card for $17,499.00

 

You were scammed, but its all ok, but it's all "just business," right?

 

Nope...because I immediately saw it was damn near $17,500. I never "assume" anything except "given opportunity most ppl will try to get over on you." Where I'm from its known as "poppin cone".....I learned to recognise it b4 I was 10yrs old.

Edited November 10, 2014 by ImmortalLowlife

[CmdrShpd]

Thank you Mr Musco. Here are the suggestions so far...I see them as QoL changes that would be nice to have. If you see any you think might be relevant and wish to pass them on, I appreciate it.

 

6) Change total price to price per unit, or just add a price per unit option for posting items for sale.

 

This would be a great QoL change in general, regardless of whether or not BW chooses to do anything to "fix" this "issue."

[g_land]

Thank you for putting scam in quotes.

[Beranzen]

There never was a scam of any kind in the first place.

A fact that has been confirmed by this very thread.

Thank you Eric for ending this pointless debate.