Conquest Exploit Farming - Battle of Ilum (Is it an exploit? Or just boring farming?)

[Failtima]

So after the "fix" tmw pvp will be full of pve'ers trying to as rapidly as possible suicide for the repeatable, since the points are for finishing and not winning. Edited August 28, 2014 by Failtima

[Infernixx]

So after the "fix" tmw pvp will be full of pve'ers trying to as rapidly as possible suicide for the repeatable, since the points are for finishing and not winning.

 

That, or you'll see entire premade groups roflstomping.

[DataBeaver]

But without the planned 2.9c fix coming tomorrow morning, what was there but "mindless, boring grinding of obsolete fps"?

Soloing level 50 FPs is at least marginally more interesting than soloing level 35 heroics, and the FPs drop more desirable decorations. I like the crystal formations from Battle of Ilum in particular.

I'd like to hope that the changes to conquests (like 2.9c) keep coming. Eliminating the infinitely repeatable FPs is a GOOD thing. It got rid of a terrible grind as a method of making lots of points. As long as this process continues (balancing, if you will), perhaps we may eventually end up in a good spot.

I agree that the Battle of Ilum exploit needs to be stopped. The flashpoint itself should also be fixed so it requires killing all of the bosses and not just the last one. But after this change the balance is just as badly skewed towards PvP as last week.

[Failtima]

That, or you'll see entire premade groups roflstomping.

 

And even premade suicide teams...fastest way to get the conquest points. Although I'd probably enjoy seeing a match or two where both sides are trying to suicide, racing to fail...lol

Edited August 28, 2014 by Failtima

[JustTrio]

Solution for all of the PVE crowd - get a group of 4 guildies, take off all of your gear, queue for PVP, lose as quickly as possible (not always an option in voidstar, so maybe exit WZ if voidstar pops), 2000 points.

 

They want to talk about not working as intended? All you have to do is run in, die, run in, die, run in, die. It will increase your point output assuming the other side isn't doing the same thing and it is not exploiting ANYTHING. Just like inviting people for the end of a FP isn't exploiting anything.. Let them try to change it to only rewarding wins. That will cause an outcry. Maybe when the PVPers complain about what the PVEers are doing to their WZs, they'll listen.

 

As it stands now, everything that is one time only is once per LEGACY. So, assuming they follow that pattern, I'm a little unclear how anyone (who isn't spamming PVP) is supposed to get more than one character to 35k in a given week. Maybe spamming KDY? Or are they taking that away, too?

 

Watch for me naked in a WZ near you.

[Psychopyro]

Look I'll admit it, I figured it out... But what I find interesting is that the same people that were complaining about it are now doing it far worse then us... we as a medium sized guild are basically just trying to stand a chance at actually getting a planet...

 

The said guild in question is just blowing out everyone on BOTH sides (basically taking 2 planets per rotation). They can say they are separate guilds all they want, but when they are helping each other on the opposing side, they are the same guild.

 

It's a stupid mechanic that basically rewards the largest guilds and make it no fun for the small to mid sized ones. Of course EA/BW shows their true colors... As soon as the biggest guild on the server is not winning and they cry and complain, it gets changed... It just proves that all this is a contest to see who has the biggest most active guilds... Damned be friendship or having fun... Nope it's about how many sardines we can shove into a can....

 

The complainers said it was about it being "competitive"? BS as they proved it by complaining about it and doing the same thing. And they are doing it enough to make sure it won't be competitive, just like they did the week before with using the bug to reset their conquest objectives and do them over and over. And now they complain about this? Yea not about competition? At least be honest about it.. You whined because you were losing, and then do the same thing on a larger scale... You're mad cause someone actually made you work for your win instead of having it handed to you cause you are the biggest guild...

[imnotawitch]

Hey all,

 

I brought this to the attention of the team, and discovered that this is a bug - Flashpoint Conquest Objectives are intended to be one-time only, not infinitely repeatable. The only Flashpoint Objectives that can be repeated are the Group Finder ones - and those can only be done when you have the Daily Mission for the Group Finder available.

 

We will be releasing 2.9c tomorrow morning to address this issue. There will be a maintenance post made later today with the full information.

 

Thanks,

 

Tait

 

Will there be a similar limitation regarding win trading in ranked warzones?

[LordArtemis]

All they are removing is the conquest point rewards. You can run the flashpoint as often as you want, but you only get the rewards once.

 

Ok, that sounds fine then.

[Master-Nala]

Solution for all of the PVE crowd - get a group of 4 guildies, take off all of your gear, queue for PVP, lose as quickly as possible (not always an option in voidstar, so maybe exit WZ if voidstar pops), 2000 points.

 

They want to talk about not working as intended? All you have to do is run in, die, run in, die, run in, die. It will increase your point output assuming the other side isn't doing the same thing and it is not exploiting ANYTHING. Just like inviting people for the end of a FP isn't exploiting anything.. Let them try to change it to only rewarding wins. That will cause an outcry. Maybe when the PVPers complain about what the PVEers are doing to their WZs, they'll listen.

 

As it stands now, everything that is one time only is once per LEGACY. So, assuming they follow that pattern, I'm a little unclear how anyone (who isn't spamming PVP) is supposed to get more than one character to 35k in a given week. Maybe spamming KDY? Or are they taking that away, too?

 

Watch for me naked in a WZ near you.

 

There was this South Park episode, where the boys were intentionally trying to lose their Little League games on purpose. Only problem is that all the other teams wanted to as well.

 

So if you're right, this will sort itself out as the people there to play will play and the farming folks will be equally likely to be on your team as against your team. So it will even out.

[Darkulous]

that will change tomorrow morning. lets talk tomorrow afternoon.

 

PvPers will still have to run 44 WZs to match the FP dailies tomorrow.

 

edit: Sorry, this is inaccurate ^. I thought all FP objectives were turning to dailies tomorrow. That is not the case.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Darkulous

[LordArtemis]

To be clear, the reason I was asking if they were going to remove the ability to do certain flashpoints over and over again is because certain ones have uses in the game...like being able to farm BT/Esseles for Light or Dark side points, grade 4 mats from Foundry, etc.

 

I was concerned that if they changed the flashpoints to only allow one per day that would make it much more difficult to farm them. Seems to me the best move is to remove the Conquest points from non-groupfinder FPs.

[Moonlitwings]

As a PvE player, I'm honestly quite pissed by this "fix." Yeah, I can see that the ability to have a stealther clear Battle of Ilum isn't fair. I wholeheartedly agree with that, it's not fair. So, fix the flashpoint. You've got code for doors behind bosses that open only after the boss is dead. Put in doors behind the bosses that require the bosses to die.

 

The PvPers have a HUGE advantage over PvEers, simply due to the fact that their objectives are both:

A.) What they already play regardless

B.) Infinitely repeatable with NO limitations -- not once a day, not once a week, they can run it over and over

A PvEr already has to interrupt their own dailies, their team's operations progression, to be able to run the FPs and easier ops in order to even GAIN the conquest points. Now you're taking what few conquest points we can earn and saying that we'll only be able to get it once, ON ONE TOON, and then that's it.

 

That leaves me stuck with crafting to even be capable of reaching the 35,000 mark on one character, not to mention spending several hours more trying to run FPs.

 

The PvPers are still doing what they already plan on doing-- warzones and arenas, and from it they are easily reaching their 35,000 and more on EVERY toon they want to. Want proof? I'm on a PvE server. EVERY PvP guild is 1-3 MILLION points (or even more, based upon last week's results) above the PvE guilds, even with these flashpoint bonuses. What does that say to you? That if you want to accomplish these new planetary conquest missions, you HAVE to PvP to be able to get to the top of the list. I'm not on a PvE server to PvP. I'm here to run operations with my friends. It's hard enough to get conquest points from operations alone, so I can run flashpoints with my friends as well.

 

Now, I'd absolutely love if there was a "conquest point bounty" applied to operations bosses-- 500 per boss for a storymode, 1000 per boss for a hardmode, 1500 per a nightmare mode boss. That'd give me conquest points for that which I already do anyways, and given the lockouts, it's restricted to once a week per toon, instead of giving me a measly 1000 points for getting four to five bosses downed. So... I get the same amount out of an operation as a PvPer can get out of running a 5-minute ranked arena match. Forgive me for feeling wronged, but I don't see that as being fair, especially since I can only do each operation once.

 

I like that the GSH updates add all these things that make it worthwhile to run all the older content that I've not gotten to run recently, with the addition of the decoration drops, and this week's conquest objectives allows me to run PvE content with my friends in order to gain the points, and suddenly it's being decapitated to the point at which I can no longer do what I love to do in order to reach the 35k mark. I don't mind if flashpoints are worth less (especially if killing operations bosses gives me something!) as long as I can still repeat them in order to gain points. I will NOT PvP. Why? Because it's not fun. I don't play this game to be frustrated and annoyed. I play it to have fun and to play with my friends. At this point, having a great big guild goal that requires me to change how I play, and now is being placed such that I cannot even achieve it, is making a game that isn't fun, as I can't help my guild, nor achieve this guild objective.

 

I don't pay $15 a month for EVERY month since the game launch in order to NOT have fun.

[Master-Nala]

To be clear, the reason I was asking if they were going to remove the ability to do certain flashpoints over and over again is because certain ones have uses in the game...like being able to farm BT/Esseles for Light or Dark side points, grade 4 mats from Foundry, etc.

 

I was concerned that if they changed the flashpoints to only allow one per day that would make it much more difficult to farm them. Seems to me the best move is to remove the Conquest points from non-groupfinder FPs.

 

Seems like all they are doing is removing the conquest points. No reason for them to make a major change like removing their repeatability.

[DataBeaver]

PvPers will still have to run 44 WZs to match the FP dailies tomorrow.

The outrageous claims just keep growing. First it was 12, then 24, and now 44. Can you show the math?

 

After tomorrow's patch, there's only one repeatable flashpoint goal, which can be done once a day for three different flashpoints. That gives a total of 3000 conquest points. The WZ and GSF completion goals give 500 conquest points each, so six repetitions are needed to match the points from PvE.

[discbox]

Hm. Something like that should be changed in a running conquest.

 

People grinding before the patch have an advantage. People doing conquest tasks after the patch have an disadvantage. Lukcy if you had the time at the beginning of the week, bad luck if you planned to do this at the weekend.

 

It should stay as it is for this round.

 

(I have finished my personal conquests for this round, and I'm not in a guild that's doing quild conquest.)

Edited August 28, 2014 by discbox

[_Viserys_]

The OP is just whining because he expects to be at the top of the leaderboards every week without having to try. He's the same type of whiny, crybaby, entitled ....-canoes that ruin MMOs.

 

Regardless, the whole thing is about numbers. The smaller guild finds a way to win so the bigger guild whines. Not to mention, Hellbent has to pull people from Holocron just to compete.

 

Hard work is not the virtue here in the Conquest missions, simply whomever has the bigger, more active guild and whichever of those guilds pvp more. End of story.

[Kelbun]

Easy fix: Make Conquest points tied to daily and weekly QUESTS. Make it that way for PVP content, PVE content, and Space ship fighter content, and Galactic fighter content. Make FP quests Require you complete all objective including hidden/bonus bosses and objectives. I would also make planet daily's and regular quests for the planets you are fighting for control of award conquest points as well. Hell, scale Republic's Most Wanted.

 

Or just leave it alone. MMO's are essentially grind fests. If PVPers can grind PVP content all day long, then let the PVEers do it.

[Kackman]

I didn't lump them together, of the repeatable missions there are only 3 repeatable PVE missions. There is a flashpoint mission, which can only be done once a day per daily reward (3 times total) and can range from 15-45 minutes. There is an operation mission, which can only be done every couple days, however long the operation cycle lasts, and can range from 45 minutes to a couple hours. There is a heroics mission on Ilum and Balmorra which can only be done daily and range from 5 to 15 minutes to complete.

 

On the other side there are 4 PVP missions which can be done infinitely many times.

 

I'm ignoring the missions which give points for weeklies, on both sides.

 

 

 

Only if we can separate the flashpoints from the heroics from the operations. They're all very different from each other and for the most part are not completed during a normal day, at least the way the objectives are set up. Whereas PVPers already queue for warzones and starfigher matches and this changes nothing for them.

 

You're right that the weekly quests shouldn't really count when counting truly repeatable missions, since you can only do them once/character.

 

Contrary to what you said, the Heroics missions are repeatable, although Ilum only has two that count. Balmorra has nine Heroics, however. The Balmorra set earns 13.5k conquest points/day/character for guilds that are invading Balmorra, not counting Stronghold bonuses.

 

There are currently seven repeatable flashpoint missions per side (Kuat, FE, FE Bonus boss, BoI, BoI Bonus, BT/Esseles, BT/Esseles Bonus).

 

I addressed the GSF repeatables earlier. Throw out the weekly, and of the remaining three GSF repeatables, two of them aren't exactly spammable (50 medals will take good players 4-5 games to earn, and 10 wins isn't exactly something you can just produce on demand, although it'll certainly be easier for good players to achieve than it will the rest). One spammable GSF for 500, and one spammable WZ for 500.

 

Anyway, all of this will apparently change with the patch arriving (tomorrow?). Plus, each of the eleven conquests has different objectives. Some weeks might favor PvP, some might favor PvE.

 

All that said, I don't think that making all FP objectives one-time only is the answer. I like the solution that others have suggested of making it a requirement that you kill all bosses to get the points, along with the limitation that you can't invite anyone after progress has been made (say, after one boss has been killed).

 

-----------

 

On the subject of PvP Conquest Objectives, I'm looking forward to the Death Mark week. One of the objectives is described as "Deliver the killing blow against enemies in any warzone." If that's 1,000 points per KB, let's enjoy all DPS warzones. Sadly, it probably won't work like that.

[Jonfendm]

PvPers will still have to run 44 WZs to match the FP dailies tomorrow.

 

What you fail to understand, and what everyone else fails to understand, is the PvPers can earn their conquest cap by DOING WHAT THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DOING. How many PvEers were out there running Balmorra heroics prior to two weeks ago? My issue is that they need to give rewards to PvEers for doing what they ALWAYS do, just like the PvPers get. BoI HAD to be fixed, I get it, it was absurd. You will get not one argument from me. But it returns us back to a system of rewarding conquest points to one group for doing the thing they find the most fun, while all others have to change the way they spend their play time.

[Darkulous]

The outrageous claims just keep growing. First it was 12, then 24, and now 44. Can you show the math?

 

After tomorrow's patch, there's only one repeatable flashpoint goal, which can be done once a day for three different flashpoints. That gives a total of 3000 conquest points. The WZ and GSF completion goals give 500 conquest points each, so six repetitions are needed to match the points from PvE.

 

Ooops....you're right. So so right. I thought ALL the FP objectives were turning to dailies. That does change my outlook a bit. I'll edit my post.

 

I still think 500 conquest is acceptable for any type of repeatable objective, whether it be crafting or completing one WZ. But PvE needs to have something equally worth while.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Darkulous

[tolaez]

Hey all,

 

I brought this to the attention of the team, and discovered that this is a bug - Flashpoint Conquest Objectives are intended to be one-time only, not infinitely repeatable. The only Flashpoint Objectives that can be repeated are the Group Finder ones - and those can only be done when you have the Daily Mission for the Group Finder available.

 

We will be releasing 2.9c tomorrow morning to address this issue. There will be a maintenance post made later today with the full information.

 

Thanks,

 

Tait

 

So it's ok for PVPers to grind on their content but not for PVEers? I don't get it.

Why not allow something equivalent for PVEers to grind on?

[Psychopyro]

So it's ok for PVPers to grind on their content but not for PVEers? I don't get it.

Why not allow something equivalent for PVEers to grind on?

 

Because that means OMG they'd actually have to make PvE content we could grind out... And since PvPers are their own content, it's the path of least resistance....

 

I knew when BioWare was bought by EA before this launched that it would track down the easy path till they can't make money on it anymore... EA could screw up a wet dream... Honestly 2 week in a row that "PvE" objectives were broken? Give me a break...

[Jerba]

If I calc it right, and didn't miss anything, that's 49k strictly PvE points. Tight, but doable in my opinion, especially since most people will also do a few other activities as well.

You are forgetting that this only works as a level 55, and (like someone wrote already) since a lot of the objectives are one-time, it won't work for players with more than one character.

 

I don't think anyone disagrees that flashpoints give way too many points at the moment, but making them one-time is the wrong solution. Either of the following two solutions will be a better fix than what they are planning IMO:

How about this...no FP rewards more than 500 points, including bonus boss and it can be repeated? That make you happier? There's no queue for you to wait in so you should be able to blow this out in no time.

So if you make the FP itself a one time points award can you leave the Bonus Boss as repeatable because those you can't just stealth to and pick up you have to kill things.

Last week, I did PvP on two of my characters, because I started late in the week and would never have gotten the 35k from the daily flashpoints alone. I'm not a big PvP player, but I do play it from time to time. Usually, I quit playing after losing five matches in a row, but last week, there was no chance, you had to keep queuing with all the other PvEers just to get the 35k points.

If this keeps up in the future, I'll stop doing conquest the moment I have all gathering decorations, since it appears as if BW just wants their PvE players to queue for warzones to keep the PvP crowd happy. I can't think of another reason why PvP objectives are favored so much.

 

In the end, the hotfix tomorrow won't really change a thing. The guilds that were exploiting the flashpoints are now millions of points ahead of other guilds, and with tomorrow's hotfix, other guilds have no chance of catching up to those guilds.

The best way to handle this situation is to either reset all points and apply the hotfix, or to just let the event run as it is and fix it for the next time this event returns. I really hope that they already took a closer look at next week's event. Because as it stands, the best thing to do seems to be to identify the best way to farm points as quickly as possible and rack up points on Tuesday/Wednesday untill they fix it, then sit back and relax on first place until next week. Oh well...

Edited August 28, 2014 by Jerba

[DataBeaver]

I still think 500 conquest is acceptable for any type of repeatable objective, whether it be crafting or completing one WZ. But PvE needs to have something equally worth while.

Flashpoints take a bit longer than warzones when done properly (and I think they should be fixed so they have to be done properly), so I think a larger reward is also fair. There are also longer queues for flashpoints, especially for DPS classes.

[Psychopyro]

In the end, the hotfix tomorrow won't really change a thing. The guilds that were exploiting the flashpoints are now millions of points ahead of other guilds, and with tomorrow's hotfix, other guilds have no chance of catching up to those guilds.

The best way to handle this situation is to either reset all points and apply the hotfix, or to just let the event run as it is and fix it for the next time this event returns. I really hope that they already took a closer look at next week's event. Because as it stands, the best thing to do seems to be to identify the best way to farm points as quickly as possible and rack up points untill they fix it, then sit back until next week. Oh well...

 

Here is the thing... And I'll admit, we were doing this and we were the ones to find this one... However when we saw that it was going to be patched, we stopped... We are not doing it anymore... However the guild that whined and complained about it, they not only were doing it, after they said they were going to patch it, they are making all of their 55s do it to get so far ahead that no one will catch them... They want to take the points, go ahead... But honesty who is worse at this point, the ones who started it and stopped, or the ones that are taking clear advantage of it after they were told it was not WAI?

 

Since I found this, I would take full responsibility for doing what I did... I've always run it solo on my shadow for extra cash cause it's well over 100k per hour, as I can run it in about 7 minutes and kill the last boss easily. Doing FPs solo has never been an exploit, nor has ever inviting someone in to kill the last boss. As it's not any different then GF if someone drops out, you get to bring in someone to do the last boss and they get credit. It's IN the game mechanics FFS.