Conquest Exploit Farming - Battle of Ilum (Is it an exploit? Or just boring farming?)

[Darkulous]

Agreed for sure. Interesting what the coming weeks changes will present over time.

 

Yup.

 

To be fair, this is only the second week. Balancing anything in a MMO takes time. I was actually a little excited to see a Starfighter Bonus this week. I just recently came back and I've only experienced one or two runs of it (months ago). But the huge Bonus to FPs has me running those instead. You HAVE to run them if you want to climb the leaderboard.

[Caladorean]

Tait wrote:

Hey all,

 

I brought this to the attention of the team, and discovered that this is a bug - Flashpoint Conquest Objectives are intended to be one-time only, not infinitely repeatable. The only Flashpoint Objectives that can be repeated are the Group Finder ones - and those can only be done when you have the Daily Mission for the Group Finder available.

 

We will be releasing 2.9c tomorrow morning to address this issue. There will be a maintenance post made later today with the full information.

 

Thanks,

 

Tait

 

B*llsh*t, pure B*llsh*t

 

 

PvP Guilds with pre-mades will still roll WZ's all day long for the 500pts. Ranked can be done in less than 10min...

 

On Shadowlands, the Top two Pvp Guilds own the highest pt total ( just over 10million last week). This week the leaderboards are much more competitive, although the top two pvp Guilds still are leading in their respective planet conquests. Folks can complain that chain running Fp's help the PvE community. Where is the justice in getting 1K in Conquest pts for completing an entire GF Operation and that is limited to once every 36 hours?...How about that for horsesh*t? Or Individuals with lives who can only contribute to their Raid teams and their specific raid times? Learning a new Boss fight on HM/NiM for the entire week's raid earn " Nothing " for their Guild in conquest points........? Where is the value per time spent equality in that example?

 

If I have spent time killing Bosses in Operations and have gear which is powerful enough to solo a hard mode 50-55, why should I be limited/restricted/punished what my character can actually do?

 

This is an all time low for Bioware

Edited August 28, 2014 by Caladorean
forgot something

[Hierodule]

Hey all,

 

I brought this to the attention of the team, and discovered that this is a bug - Flashpoint Conquest Objectives are intended to be one-time only, not infinitely repeatable. The only Flashpoint Objectives that can be repeated are the Group Finder ones - and those can only be done when you have the Daily Mission for the Group Finder available.

 

We will be releasing 2.9c tomorrow morning to address this issue. There will be a maintenance post made later today with the full information.

 

Thanks,

 

Tait

 

I wonder if there will be a coding issue here. You can only get the group finder mission to work when you select a RANDOM FP. You're not guaranteed to get Ilum or Black Talon. So if I want to do the FPs that will give points, I have to pick random ones? Or if I select only between the 3 point-giving ones, my group finder mission wont trigger and I wont get points?

[Darkulous]

I like how you count each of the PvP objectives individually, then take all the PvE objectives and lump them together into groups so as to make it appear like PvP has twice as many options as PvE does this cycle.

 

However, according to the Dulfy list, there are 16 individual PvE objectives for Conquest in Hyperspace, not counting crafting:

 

http://dulfy.net/2014/08/07/swtor-planetary-conquests-guide/#Conquest_Clash_in_Hyperspace

 

Oh, and there's only five PvP objectives this time, so there are 3x as many PvE options as PvP.

 

In fact, of those five, one of them is only achievable every 4-5 games for even the best players (earn 50 medals), one of them can be done only every 10 games, assuming a 100% win percentage, and a third is the weekly, which can only be done once per character. There are basically only two easily repeatable PvP objectives (WZ match/GSF match), and each earns a mere 2k/hour assuming near-instant pops - pre-bonus, of course.

 

Also, can we just separate Starfighter and normal MMO pvp please? They're very different from each other. A whole other category. General mmo pvpers are not all going to be interested in Starfighter.

[TUXs]

B*llsh*t, pure B*llsh*t

 

 

PvP Guilds with pre-mades will still roll WZ's all day long for the 500pts. Ranked can be done in less than 10min...

Assume they can do 4 WZ's in an hour...that's only 2k points for an hour.

 

Now...you can run FE one time in 18 minutes and get 6k, or Black Talon solo in 8 for 2k...you're right...it's pure bull****!

[TUXs]

Hey all,

 

I brought this to the attention of the team, and discovered that this is a bug - Flashpoint Conquest Objectives are intended to be one-time only, not infinitely repeatable. The only Flashpoint Objectives that can be repeated are the Group Finder ones - and those can only be done when you have the Daily Mission for the Group Finder available.

 

We will be releasing 2.9c tomorrow morning to address this issue. There will be a maintenance post made later today with the full information.

 

Thanks,

 

Tait

Tait...it's the points awarded that are causing the issue, not the repeatability of the FPs. They're simply worth too much at 6k each. You guys are fixing this the wrong way...

[ivanhedgehog]

It boils down to what kind of behavior do you want to incentivize. My guess is that they want to create incentives to PvP. This is reasonable since the players are the content in PvP. What they do not want is people running a level 10 FP over and over just for the rewards.

 

The difference between the two is that a Warzone is different every single time you do it. It's not the same as a Flashpoint. Sure some people will just afk or lose on purpose, but in my experience, most people at least try to win. They may be bad at the game, but if they stick with it they will improve. Those who are so anti-PvP that they won't participate honestly will burn themselves out.

 

the behavior they are encouraging most is to play a different game. not very smart

[ivanhedgehog]

A BG worth 500 conquest not repeatable? Huh?

 

make the WZ worth 2k just like the fp's and make them non repeatable..problem solved.

[Brewski]

Also, can we just separate Starfighter and normal MMO pvp please? They're very different from each other. A whole other category. General mmo pvpers are not all going to be interested in Starfighter.

A very valid point. Additionally I would suggest separating Ops content from other PvE content. Many players who play PvE don't have the time on inclination to do Ops.

 

It would be nice to know that it's at least possible for a player to achieve their 35k objective without being forced to do content they actively dislike. For GSF and PvP there are infinite objectives. Crafting I'll place in it's own category a well, since pretty much anyone can do it if they want.

 

So the only question is, has anyone run the numbers to determine if there are enough PvE objectives to attain 35k without being forced to do Ops, GSF or PvP? My presumption would be that there are, but I don't know for sure. If it's possible to attain that many points, then I see no issues.

[Failtima]

Something to take into account with the wz repeatable is that it's for finishing, not winning. Gonna be LOTS of rapid fire kamikaze runs on both sides. Races to see which side deliberately looses first. Edited August 28, 2014 by Failtima

[Master-Nala]

the behavior they are encouraging most is to play a different game. not very smart

 

Well, realistically, that's not the option most people will take. Conquest didn't exist two weeks ago. So if you were having fun two weeks ago, I'm not seeing how this change pushes you out of the game.

 

All this complaining is a bit hypocritical. This week there is ONE Warzone objective. And a long line of PvE objectives. And a few Starfighter (which is very different from character PvP). Sure you can only do one Flashpoint a day. But you have other things to do. If you PvP the only thing you have to do are WZs. One thing.

 

I have no problem with making it based on the PvP dailies however. Up the reward to 2,000 points for completing each of the two dailies and give 4,000 for the weekly.

[Darkulous]

make the WZ worth 2k just like the fp's and make them non repeatable..problem solved.

 

The problem with that is PvPers will have nothing left to do (that they enjoy anyway) to earn Conquest , after just ONE WZ. Guilds who are setting up premades and burning through WZs all day long for 500-1000 Conquest will be at the top of the leaderboard no matter what.

[ivanhedgehog]

Well, realistically, that's not the option most people will take. Conquest didn't exist two weeks ago. So if you were having fun two weeks ago, I'm not seeing how this change pushes you out of the game.

 

All this complaining is a bit hypocritical. This week there is ONE Warzone objective. And a long line of PvE objectives. And a few Starfighter (which is very different from character PvP). Sure you can only do one Flashpoint a day. But you have other things to do. If you PvP the only thing you have to do are WZs. One thing.

 

I have no problem with making it based on the PvP dailies however. Up the reward to 2,000 points for completing each of the two dailies and give 4,000 for the weekly.

 

gsf is pvp, so are wz's. people were in a waiting mode 2 weeks ago,. the wait is over and the devs have nothing in the forseeable future. so, to get your 35k you need to craft till you are broke or pvp. that isnt going to work.

[Kazyon]

The problem with that is PvPers will have nothing left to do (that they enjoy anyway) to earn Conquest , after just ONE WZ. Guilds who are setting up premades and burning through WZs all day long for 500-1000 Conquest will be at the top of the leaderboard no matter what.

 

Right, and now PvE-ers are getting locked out after one FP. So let's tone down the rewards on the PvE stuff to be in line with the PvP rewards and let them both be repeatable so people can play how they want and still contribute.

 

Tait...it's the points awarded that are causing the issue, not the repeatability of the FPs. They're simply worth too much at 6k each. You guys are fixing this the wrong way...

 

Agreed.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Kazyon

[Kallanev]

Crafting isn't as easy as some make it out to be. One has to farm the mats, or purchase the mats, which means farming for credits. There is a whole lot of front end time that is invested before one can craft. Equating it to "just a few clicks and BAM - conquest points" is very short sighted.

 

I completely agree that the stealth run in to Battle of Ilum and then inviting 3 guild-mates to join you at the last boss is an exploit over what was intended. I believe the fix for this would be to require that each boss (perhaps not the bonus boss as it's already counted separately) be killed before you can get any conquest points. Then when the last boss is killed, you get full point value for the time invested. Flipping a switch to change it from repeatable to non-repeatable doesn't fix the exploit.

 

This levels the playing field for those players on planets with PvE quest rewards. It seems that BioWare has designed the PvE and PvP planets to be separate, or at least give PvE and PvP focused planets. I think this is a good idea. I dislike PvP, and will go to great lengths to avoid it. I love PvE content, however. Having both PvE and PvP objectives on the same planet would be bad, as in its current form the PvE content wins.

[Master-Nala]

It would be nice to know that it's at least possible for a player to achieve their 35k objective without being forced to do content they actively dislike. For GSF and PvP there are infinite objectives. Crafting I'll place in it's own category a well, since pretty much anyone can do it if they want.

 

So the only question is, has anyone run the numbers to determine if there are enough PvE objectives to attain 35k without being forced to do Ops, GSF or PvP? My presumption would be that there are, but I don't know for sure. If it's possible to attain that many points, then I see no issues.

 

It's easily possible. Take this week and ignoring bonuses:

 

Run daily FP mission = 1K per day

Run Balmorra Heroics each day = 4.5K per day

Run the Ilum heroic for your faction = 500 per day

Run KDY, BoI, False Emperor, Esseles/BT = 4K per day (Not sure if this is separate from FP daily, but it's listed separately)

Kill side bosses in BoI, False Emperor, Esseles/BT = 3K per day

 

That's 13K per day. Almost all of this can be soloed.

[Caladorean]

Maybe Bioware could have constructed a more intelligent design in " fixing " something which is not broke would be to have restricted the conquest point accumulation for characters ONLY que'ing for a random Flashpoint. This would alleviate the targeting of specific flashpoints for conquest points and the ease of such accumulation.

[Master-Nala]

gsf is pvp, so are wz's. .

 

I like character PvP, I don't like GSF. You're complaining about being 'forced' to do something you don't like, but are claiming that two very different activities are equivalent. Warzones are closer to Flashpoints than they are to GSF.

 

So if you want to say PvPers have GSF in their column, then you have no right to complain. Because your are saying that it's OK to be encouraged to do something you don't like.

[TUXs]

gsf is pvp, so are wz's. people were in a waiting mode 2 weeks ago,. the wait is over and the devs have nothing in the forseeable future. so, to get your 35k you need to craft till you are broke or pvp. that isnt going to work.

Have none of you logged in this week?

 

PvP would be stupid this week (for points). PvE is where 95% of the points are coming from right now...not PvP, not crafting, not GSF...FPs.

[TUXs]

So the only question is, has anyone run the numbers to determine if there are enough PvE objectives to attain 35k without being forced to do Ops, GSF or PvP? My presumption would be that there are, but I don't know for sure. If it's possible to attain that many points, then I see no issues.

Um...YES!!!! That's the freaking complaint dude...FP's which can be solo'd are rewarding 2k points every 8minutes to players.

 

PvP, GSF and Ops are the absolute LAST things you wanna do this week. It's ALL AND ONLY about the FPs right now.

[Brewski]

It's easily possible. Take this week and ignoring bonuses:

 

Run daily FP mission = 1K per day

Run Balmorra Heroics each day = 4.5K per day

Run the Ilum heroic for your faction = 500 per day

Run KDY, BoI, False Emperor, Esseles/BT = 4K per day (Not sure if this is separate from FP daily, but it's listed separately)

Kill side bosses in BoI, False Emperor, Esseles/BT = 3K per day

 

That's 13K per day. Almost all of this can be soloed.

Actually, most of the FP points you counted are what they are going to be making one time only objectives, meaning you can't get them daily. The only daily PvE objectives (as I read it) are going ot be heroics and the group finder FP mission.

 

That means, if I calc it right, you can score a total of 49k conquest points per week (not counting stronghold bonus) if you log in all 6 days and complete all available PvE objectives. (Not counting PvP, GSF, Crafting or Ops content.)

 

• Group Finder: Flashpoints (6 times at 1k) - 6k
  
• Weekly HM Flashpoints - 1k
  
• Weekly Tactical Flashpoints - 1k
  
• Blackhole Weekly - 1k
  
• Balmorra: Heroic Missions (8 heroics for 4k per day) - 24k
  
• Ilum: Heroic Missions - (2 missions for 1k per day) - 6k
  
• Flashpoint: Kuat Drive Yards - 1k
  
• Flashpoint: The False Emperor - 1k
  
• Defeat The Sith Entity (Hard Mode) - 1k
  
• Flashpoint: The Battle of Ilum - 1k
  
• Defeat the Guid Patriarch (Hard Mode) - 1k
  
• Flashpoint: The Black Talon/Esseles - 1k
  
• Defeat GXR-7/ISS-994 (Hard Mode) - 1k
  
• Balmorra: Rampage - 1k
  
• Ilum: Rampage - 1k
  
• Ilum: Raiding the Republic/Empire - 1k
  

 

If I calc it right, and didn't miss anything, that's 49k strictly PvE points. Tight, but doable in my opinion, especially since most people will also do a few other activities as well.

[Brewski]

Um...YES!!!! That's the freaking complaint dude...FP's which can be solo'd are rewarding 2k points every 8minutes to players.

 

PvP, GSF and Ops are the absolute LAST things you wanna do this week. It's ALL AND ONLY about the FPs right now.

 

I was talking about after the change, not as it currently stands. See my post above this one for clarification.

[TUXs]

I was talking about after the change, not as it currently stands. See my post above this one for clarification.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to jump on you...I just feel like half the participants in here don't understand what this weeks issue is all about (obviously not you).

[DataBeaver]

I brought this to the attention of the team, and discovered that this is a bug - Flashpoint Conquest Objectives are intended to be one-time only, not infinitely repeatable. The only Flashpoint Objectives that can be repeated are the Group Finder ones - and those can only be done when you have the Daily Mission for the Group Finder available.

*sigh* back to farming boring old heroics I guess. Flashpoints were at least somewhat interesting, but I guess we can't have nice things.

 

Will you be making PvP goals once-a-day as well, or will PvP players still have a significant advantage in conquests?

Edited August 28, 2014 by DataBeaver

[Jonfendm]

The reward is only 500 conquest dude, lol. Is that really outrageous for a repeatable? I'd have to get through 12 BGs to equal one run through FE.

 

Posts like this are massively short-sighted. There will always be planets that reward the 2X bonus for PvP, which suddenly takes your 12 down to 6. I know a TON of PvPers... and the vast majority of them do FAR more than 6 per day. The current system will be massively exploitable by PvP guilds in future conquests, especially when ones come around that have the Warzone bonus on more than 1 planet. And what happens when they dont have the bonus for FPs on more than 1 planet (this too is likely to happen and will just widen the divide)... a possible method for balancing this could be rewarding conquest points PER raid boss to give the PvE guilds a chance, then you would be limited by your lockouts.