Jonfendm Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yes, it is. We were on Makeb last week and came in a solid second place with about 5 million conquest. The winning guild had more than 10 million conquest points, and they did it by running WZs almost nonstop with full premades. So yes, for an organized and dedicated guild, it is outrageous. And to clarify, I'm not saying the PvE repeatable wasn't outrageous either... but to nerf one and leave the other is wrong. Do you not understand that the PvPers still get theirs by doing what they do all the time. The PvEers have to change up their whole game-time spending habits, or feel like they are letting the guild down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewski Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Sorry, I didn't mean to jump on you...I just feel like half the participants in here don't understand what this weeks issue is all about (obviously not you). No worries. It's easy enough to lose track of who posted what in a thread like this one. For the record, though I rarely PvP myself, I support Conquests being tilted in favor of PvP and GSH. This game is badly in need of incentives to get people to play those aspects more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 So basically what they are saying here is "chain queu starfighter, or you deserve to lose balmorra". love it. I get that the ilum/bt/esseles trick was a bit cheap, but at least on my server for the invasion of balmorra, it seemed a pretty even race. but as of tomorrow morning now it becomes "whoever queus the most for GSF wins". Feels good man, feels good. The balmorra heroics give you more points by like x5 compared to runs black talon/esseless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danylia Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Group Finder: Flashpoints (6 times at 1k) - 6k If I calc it right, and didn't miss anything, that's 49k strictly PvE points. Tight, but doable in my opinion, especially since most people will also do a few other activities as well. Not sure if it is intended, but doing a HM 50 with GF daily available, HM 55 with GF daily available and Tactical FP with GF daily available brought me 1000 points each, so the Group Finder: Flashpoints can actually bring up to 18k points in total (before bonuses). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 The balmorra heroics give you more points by like x5 compared to runs black talon/esseless shhhhhhhh!!! Let them waste their time pretending they know the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KazuharaKai Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Hey all, I brought this to the attention of the team, and discovered that this is a bug - Flashpoint Conquest Objectives are intended to be one-time only, not infinitely repeatable. The only Flashpoint Objectives that can be repeated are the Group Finder ones - and those can only be done when you have the Daily Mission for the Group Finder available. We will be releasing 2.9c tomorrow morning to address this issue. There will be a maintenance post made later today with the full information. Thanks, Tait Tait. I think there needs to be a deeper discussion than just limiting PvE Flashpoints. Perhaps it would be best to not allow invites into the FP Group once initiated or something similar. PvE FPs are 1000 Conquest Points per run. Normally these runs can take anywhere from 15-45 mins. PvP matches are 500 Conquest Points per run. Roughly 15 mins a match. That was a pretty balanced system - IMO. This way PvP Guilds could grind out PvP matches, and PvE Guilds could grind out Flashpoints in the same fashion. Also, tell Musco thank you for actually answering the C.E. Vendor question accurately at the Cantina Meetup in SD. Still wish it was a mount, but I'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonfendm Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 This all just promotes a specific playstyle. The issue is that the pvpers earn their conquest points by doing what they always do anyways. When the planet in question has the PvP bonus, 1K per when the planet in question has the Warzones bonus. PvEers have to cut into their daily farming, to their Ops time running, just to try to keep up with the PvPers abilities to simply earn conquest by going about their business. Its quite an absurd way to go about things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Tait. I think there needs to be a deeper discussion than just limiting PvE Flashpoints. Perhaps it would be best to not allow invites into the FP Group once initiated or something similar. PvE FPs are 1000 Conquest Points per run. There needs to be deeper/better discussion, but not for whatever reason you think. They're making this change because, right now, FPs are worth 2k for 8min or 6k for 18min. Eliminating them as repeatable quests isn't the answer - reducing the points IS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Seeing how the system has been used lately, this change doesn't surprise me. Though, with the change, it now heavily favors those with a lot of alts able to grind the planetary heroics rather than those who chain-run FPs of WZs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 This all just promotes a specific playstyle. The issue is that the pvpers earn their conquest points by doing what they always do anyways. When the planet in question has the PvP bonus, 1K per when the planet in question has the Warzones bonus. PvEers have to cut into their daily farming, to their Ops time running, just to try to keep up with the PvPers abilities to simply earn conquest by going about their business. Its quite an absurd way to go about things. PvPers again? Are you even bothering to try to understand what the issue is right now? It's NOT PVP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 No DO NOT TAKE AWAY the repeatability. Just nerf the point output. Make it so that killing the bonus boss is the only thing that grants points, NOT COMPLETION. Bonus bosses actually require you to run the flashpoint. Make the completion the one time and the bonus boss the repeatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Good. I'm sick and tired of repeating it over & over just to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DataBeaver Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 PvPers again? Are you even bothering to try to understand what the issue is right now? It's NOT PVP! No, the issue right now is not PvP. But if the issue if "fixed" in the way they plan to, PvP will again be the king and PvE players are forced into mindless, boring grinding of obsolete heroics to meet their point targets. Instead of trying to find a balance, they're going from one extreme to another. If PvP players can get conquest points from what they do all day, then so should PvE players. Add points to daily areas, give them for completing class quests so leveling players can also benefit, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonfendm Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 PvPers again? Are you even bothering to try to understand what the issue is right now? It's NOT PVP! I am neither blaming PvPers nor blaming PVEers. The system is bad, and this solution once again, benefits the PvP guilds. No matter how you shake it out , it does. Do you know how I know this? I experienced it. Last week, I was doing some PvP to earn conquest points. Do you know the LONGEST time I waited for a queue to pop? No more than 4 minutes. Do you think the majority of PvEers, who now will H AVE to do the FPs through queue to even make it worth the time, are going to get queues in 4 minutes? Not a chance. The lack of tanks server-wide queueing is the reason for this. PvPers are being rewarded for doing what they play they game to do. PvEers and PvE guilds in particular, have to cut into what they do (lets face it, thats operations and dailies because FPs have been an afterthought for the better part of a year.) Just looking on Shadowlands right now... 2 of the 5 planets right now, have PvP guilds on top. Despite this "exploit" because they get their points for doing nothing out of the ordinary. They log in,. do what they ALWAYS do, get their points and log off. Ops guys cannot do this and help their guild THAT is what needs fixed with the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmajamma Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 TUXs 2016! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 No, the issue right now is not PvP. But if the issue if "fixed" in the way they plan to, PvP will again be the king and PvE players are forced into mindless, boring grinding of obsolete heroics to meet their point targets. Instead of trying to find a balance, they're going from one extreme to another. If PvP players can get conquest points from what they do all day, then so should PvE players. Add points to daily areas, give them for completing class quests so leveling players can also benefit, etc. But don't punish PvPers for Bioware making a mistake...the issue is output, not repeatability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalispa Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 My question to the developers is that now that they have identified another BW mishap, are they going to take the repeated points away, because I can guarantee that some guilds like "Chill" on my server are going to be doing nothing but exploiting the mistake on BW part. I get yesterday it was BW fault, as while it irks me to keep and to have guilds keep those points. Is it entirely incomprehensible that BW can't read a time stamp in their on server code to subtract the points from the guilds that are going to keep exploiting the identified issue. Well if they can't read why don't you guys just take all of them away. I know its nearly unfathomable for you guys to show any leadership or initiative, but just this once try to actually run the game rather than letting the players cry there way to winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 No, the issue right now is not PvP. But if the issue if "fixed" in the way they plan to, PvP will again be the king and PvE players are forced into mindless, boring grinding of obsolete heroics to meet their point targets. Instead of trying to find a balance, they're going from one extreme to another. If PvP players can get conquest points from what they do all day, then so should PvE players. Add points to daily areas, give them for completing class quests so leveling players can also benefit, etc. I suspect that this is a slight perk given to PVPers to try and encourage the players to indulge in PVP more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabigool Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I don't mind if they drastically reduce the points from flashpoints, in fact it'd be fair. but no matter the points distribution, the proposed changes guarantee that an organized pvp guild can dominate this event and as a non-pvp'er, it 100% eliminates any interest/fun in the event for me. And while I understand the number of events is weighed higher towards "PvE" content, are we seriously including Balmorra heroics in this argument? Killing 250 mobs on a planet? Come on. Nerf the points. I freely admit the gain from chaining stealthers (and let's be honest, anyone can solo BoI in 10 minutes even without stealth) is ludicrous but the flashpoints have to be repeatable if you want to say "PvE" is any part of this contest. Seriously, I was sort of having fun for a few days doing things with some folks in my guild outside of my raid team I don't ordinarily get a chance to hang with. There was some fun, healthy competitive spirit on my server. For a few nights I effectively no longer cared about the fact that this entire event was a cheesy way to make us rehash content from 2012 instead of giving us new content; dipping into our pockets all the while by rolling out more cartel moneysinks. But this change effectively takes "guilds" out of the running in nearly all instances and leaves "pvp guilds" with the only real chance of success should they opt to compete. I think it would be interesting for BW to share some metrics of where the actual points are coming from - or at least do a serious review of them prior to doing anything else like this. And I'm clearly not talking about total points, I'm talking about the points from the planet winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) No, the issue right now is not PvP. But if the issue if "fixed" in the way they plan to, PvP will again be the king and PvE players are forced into mindless, boring grinding of obsolete heroics to meet their point targets. Instead of trying to find a balance, they're going from one extreme to another. If PvP players can get conquest points from what they do all day, then so should PvE players. Add points to daily areas, give them for completing class quests so leveling players can also benefit, etc. For what it's worth, I AM in favor of adding more and more things to do as a part of conquests. But without the planned 2.9c fix coming tomorrow morning, what was there but "mindless, boring grinding of obsolete fps"? I'd like to hope that the changes to conquests (like 2.9c) keep coming. Eliminating the infinitely repeatable FPs is a GOOD thing. It got rid of a terrible grind as a method of making lots of points. As long as this process continues (balancing, if you will), perhaps we may eventually end up in a good spot. Edited August 28, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkulous Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Posts like this are massively short-sighted. There will always be planets that reward the 2X bonus for PvP, which suddenly takes your 12 down to 6. I know a TON of PvPers... and the vast majority of them do FAR more than 6 per day. The current system will be massively exploitable by PvP guilds in future conquests, especially when ones come around that have the Warzone bonus on more than 1 planet. And what happens when they dont have the bonus for FPs on more than 1 planet (this too is likely to happen and will just widen the divide)... a possible method for balancing this could be rewarding conquest points PER raid boss to give the PvE guilds a chance, then you would be limited by your lockouts. sigh... it's not short sighted. It wasn't meant to be at least. I'm talking about this week. Even with the change tomorrow, PvPers will still need to queue into 12 WZs to equal one FE run. They'll need to queue into another 12 BGs to equal one BoI run. Then there are the other FPs. I'm talking about just THIS week. Everything changes again next week. PvPers are limited to what they can do to contribute to Conquest. Also, remember, PvP Guilds deserve an equal shot at competing on the Leaderboards doing what they love to do. We may see the advantage shift from PvE to PvP every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DataBeaver Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I suspect that this is a slight perk given to PVPers to try and encourage the players to indulge in PVP more. Perhaps. PvPers are not liking it too well though: Bioware... please remove decorations from PvP! The WZs are full of PvE conquest points headless chickens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I like how you count each of the PvP objectives individually, then take all the PvE objectives and lump them together into groups so as to make it appear like PvP has twice as many options as PvE does this cycle. However, according to the Dulfy list, there are 16 individual PvE objectives for Conquest in Hyperspace, not counting crafting: http://dulfy.net/2014/08/07/swtor-planetary-conquests-guide/#Conquest_Clash_in_Hyperspace Oh, and there's only five PvP objectives this time, so there are 3x as many PvE options as PvP. In fact, of those five, one of them is only achievable every 4-5 games for even the best players (earn 50 medals), one of them can be done only every 10 games, assuming a 100% win percentage, and a third is the weekly, which can only be done once per character. There are basically only two easily repeatable PvP objectives (WZ match/GSF match), and each earns a mere 2k/hour assuming near-instant pops - pre-bonus, of course. I didn't lump them together, of the repeatable missions there are only 3 repeatable PVE missions. There is a flashpoint mission, which can only be done once a day per daily reward (3 times total) and can range from 15-45 minutes. There is an operation mission, which can only be done every couple days, however long the operation cycle lasts, and can range from 45 minutes to a couple hours. There is a heroics mission on Ilum and Balmorra which can only be done daily and range from 5 to 15 minutes to complete. On the other side there are 4 PVP missions which can be done infinitely many times. I'm ignoring the missions which give points for weeklies, on both sides. Also, can we just separate Starfighter and normal MMO pvp please? They're very different from each other. A whole other category. General mmo pvpers are not all going to be interested in Starfighter. Only if we can separate the flashpoints from the heroics from the operations. They're all very different from each other and for the most part are not completed during a normal day, at least the way the objectives are set up. Whereas PVPers already queue for warzones and starfigher matches and this changes nothing for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Have none of you logged in this week? PvP would be stupid this week (for points). PvE is where 95% of the points are coming from right now...not PvP, not crafting, not GSF...FPs. that will change tomorrow morning. lets talk tomorrow afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Perhaps. PvPers are not liking it too well though: Bioware... please remove decorations from PvP! The WZs are full of PvE conquest points headless chickens For what it's worth, the PVPers simultaneously want PVEers to stay out of their PVP stuff 'and' for there to be short PVP queues. At a certain point, you have to simply ignore the majority of these contradictory mindsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts