Canino Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I'm talking about anti-jammers, but ignore that point, I think the reverse it likely true. That is an interesting strategy that could prove pretty effective. What, anti jammers, or my strategy? I'm a little confused. But I really doubt jammers would be that expensive. Not to Black Sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 What, anti jammers, or my strategy? I'm a little confused. But I really doubt jammers would be that expensive. Not to Black Sun. I was saying that anti-jammers might be expensive and impractical to use on the battlefield, but real world equivalents suggest otherwise. I am sure that jamming tech is just as easy to acquire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Its not a question of logic or physics, but technology. The technology might not work in a logical way but it still operates. I myself can't think of a signal piece of tech that we have that we know not to exist in Star Wars. Jamming equipment exists, therefore surely anti-jamming tech does also. No such device would be left uncounterable. I can. Star Wars utilizes cybernetic replacements of body parts. We, on the other hand, grow pancreas on mice. It would seem they cannot do this. And really, there is no logical reason they do not. And technology is logic. You cannot dodge a bolt of plasma/laser in real life. You cannot exceed the speed of light (that we know of). So yes, tech is logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 I can. Star Wars utilizes cybernetic replacements of body parts. We, on the other hand, grow pancreas on mice. It would seem they cannot do this. And really, there is no logical reason they do not. And technology is logic. You cannot dodge a bolt of plasma/laser in real life. You cannot exceed the speed of light (that we know of). So yes, tech is logic. According to Wookieepedia: The galaxy had centuries of advanced technology at its disposal. Among them were the ability to replace and, for a price, modify and enhance the body. Cloning was expensive and, given the horrors of the Clone Wars, illegal on most planets after the era. Some limited regeneration of limbs was considered acceptable but there were medical dangers involved with a science that had, for obvious reasons, not seen much development in later decades after the Clone Wars. On top of that, we cannot grow back limb and regeneration is pretty much a pipe dream as of now. So illogical technology in Star Wars is therefore not technology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 According to Wookieepedia: The galaxy had centuries of advanced technology at its disposal. Among them were the ability to replace and, for a price, modify and enhance the body. Cloning was expensive and, given the horrors of the Clone Wars, illegal on most planets after the era. Some limited regeneration of limbs was considered acceptable but there were medical dangers involved with a science that had, for obvious reasons, not seen much development in later decades after the Clone Wars. On top of that, we cannot grow back limb and regeneration is pretty much a pipe dream as of now. So illogical technology in Star Wars is therefore not technology? Hmm. I missed that passage. Interesting. Still, have we ever seen anti jamming tech in SW? Because even if it exists here, I cannot find a instance of it. And thats quite an assumption we are making. We don't know how it would operate, what it would look like, or how to counter it. In fact, if it was in SW, why wasn't it used on Naboo while the Trade Federation blockade was in place? They had no communication. At. All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Hmm. I missed that passage. Interesting. Still, have we ever seen anti jamming tech in SW? Because even if it exists here, I cannot find a instance of it. And thats quite an assumption we are making. We don't know how it would operate, what it would look like, or how to counter it. In fact, if it was in SW, why wasn't it used on Naboo while the Trade Federation blockade was in place? They had no communication. At. All. That is a fair point. However I'm still not ready to dismiss it entirely, I think this only proves the technology to be scarce and therefore perhaps not usable in large quantities. And all that proves is that the Naboo did not possess this tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 That is a fair point. However I'm still not ready to dismiss it entirely, I think this only proves the technology to be scarce and therefore perhaps not usable in large quantities. And all that proves is that the Naboo did not possess this tech. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Republic to use this technology in order to communicate with the Queen while in negotiations with the Trade Federation? Or after that failed, to simply talk to the people and organize resistance and safety measures? Surely the Republic would have done that if capable. Instead they sent two Jedi to save the queen and ally themselves with the Gungan army and fight off any entire army on their own.... I would have opted for anit jammer tech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tausra Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) I would argue your faction doesn't get jammers right off the bat. Your allies provide basic tech and yelling "Pirate!" does not give a bottomless grab bag to pull from. Jammers aren't basic tech, otherwise everyone would use them. Not every pirate used them, otherwise counter-measures would exist in greater numbers. Faster standard speeders, modified ships are all part of a basic pirate kit, communication jammers and other advanced tech are not. Edited August 30, 2014 by tausra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Republic to use this technology in order to communicate with the Queen while in negotiations with the Trade Federation? Or after that failed, to simply talk to the people and organize resistance and safety measures? Surely the Republic would have done that if capable. Instead they sent two Jedi to save the queen and ally themselves with the Gungan army and fight off any entire army on their own.... I would have opted for anit jammer tech Politics. The republic had no standing army, they couldn't publicly or even secretly risk trying to aid the Naboo without a vote from the Senate. This would be an act against the Trade Federation which could have caused a travesty, and the chancellor couldn't have them backing a rival. It was much easier to send the Jedi, no republic official can ever control the actions of the Jedi Order, and that was the official statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I would argue your faction doesn't get jammers right off the bat. Your allies provide basic tech and yelling "Pirate!" does give a bottomless grab bag to pull from. Jammers aren't basic tech, otherwise everyone would use them. Not every pirate used them, otherwise counter-measures would exist in greater numbers. Faster standard speeders, modified ships are all part of a basic pirate kit, communication jammers and other advanced tech are not. As I pointed out, Urai Fen would have access to every Zann Consortium contact, and their black markets, where jammers were used. Not only that, but Black Sun would find them. And I'm sorry. But you can't pick and choose which parts of rules work. If Aurbere gets transports, I get pre equipped elite tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tausra Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Transports are par for the course everyone gets them. Get over it. You're looking for advanced tech, from the beginning of the fight; totally different topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tausra Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) As I pointed out, Urai Fen would have access to every Zann Consortium contact, and their black markets, where jammers were used. Not only that, but Black Sun would find them. For this argument I'll add emphasis to your own words. Buy them, ship them, then you can use them. Edited August 30, 2014 by tausra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Politics. The republic had no standing army, they couldn't publicly or even secretly risk trying to aid the Naboo without a vote from the Senate. This would be an act against the Trade Federation which could have caused a travesty, and the chancellor couldn't have them backing a rival. It was much easier to send the Jedi, no republic official can ever control the actions of the Jedi Order, and that was the official statement. I highly doubt they couldn't attempt something in secret. They had an Intelligence network. A few spies, or communication attempt would have been easy to do. In fact, Republic Intelligence was watching Naboo, specifically the Trade Federation. Lets not forget how often IRL governments spy against the Senate/Congress/Pres wishes. Snowden, anyone? Soviet spies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I highly doubt they couldn't attempt something in secret. They had an Intelligence network. A few spies, or communication attempt would have been easy to do. In fact, Republic Intelligence was watching Naboo, specifically the Trade Federation. Lets not forget how often IRL governments spy against the Senate/Congress/Pres wishes. Snowden, anyone? Soviet spies? How? They can't fly through the blockade and chances are a signal would be detected. And spying, and orchestrating a rebellion are too different things, Ukraine anyone? Besides, Velorum was in the pocket of the Trade Federation and they could have taken all his power away from him, he wasnt going to do anything unless forced by the senate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Transports are par for the course everyone gets them. Get over it. You're looking for advanced tech, from the beginning of the fight; totally different topics. I am over it. But it is another rule that gives me this. It states elite tech, small arms, and supplies that my supplier/ organization could provide. And these things are pre equipped. Get over it. Don't be hypocritical. As for my own words, I'm proving that my organization could supply these things, like the rule states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tausra Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Your faction gets them from outside sources. That's the problem with Pirates, they don't do much of their own manufacturing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) How? They can't fly through the blockade and chances are a signal would be detected. And spying, and orchestrating a rebellion are too different things, Ukraine anyone? Besides, Velorum was in the pocket of the Trade Federation and they could have taken all his power away from him, he wasnt going to do anything unless forced by the senate. Ukraine? What does that have to do with this? The rebellion was caused by a treaty that angered the people. Is that what you mean? Velorum isn't in charge of Republic Intelligence. They answer to their own leader- Armand Isard. And we know he wasn't afraid to ruffle any feathers. But enough of this. All I'm saying, is that these things are going to be rare. And likely expensive. If the entire planet of Naboo didn't have one (and they certainly aren't lacking finances) then I think the Fist will be hard pressed to find one/use them. Edited August 30, 2014 by Canino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Ukraine? What does that have to do with this? The rebellion was caused by a treaty that angered the people. Is that what you mean? Velorum isn't in charge of Republic Intelligence. They answer to their own leader- Armand Isard. And we know he wasn't afraid to ruffle any feathers. But enough of this. All I'm saying, is that these things are going to be rare. And likely expensive. If the entire planet of Naboo didn't have one (and they certainly aren't lacking finances) then I think the Fist will be hard pressed to find one/use them. Ukraine is the russian government supporting a terror cell. The occupation was totally legitimate, what the Republic would have done would be illegal, and Isard is not one to willfully throw away his power in the name of doing the right thing, Valorum is the Supreme Commander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Republic to use this technology in order to communicate with the Queen while in negotiations with the Trade Federation? Or after that failed, to simply talk to the people and organize resistance and safety measures? Surely the Republic would have done that if capable. Instead they sent two Jedi to save the queen and ally themselves with the Gungan army and fight off any entire army on their own.... I would have opted for anit jammer tech I don't think you see the point here, the Republic even if they did possess anti jamming technology, had no means of deploying it on the ground without initiating a full scale invasion. And in order to overcome planet wide jamming tech would have required an extensive array no doubt. The time and effort it would have taken just to reestablish communications when the whole situation could have been resolved with a bit of Jedi diplomacy would have never even been considered, as it would be a waste of resources and a risky move. EDIT: And yes I am assuming that the Republic was incapable of infiltrating the planet with spies else they would have been capable of a host of other actions e.g. rescue the Queen, send Jedi backup. Nor do I buy 'cause espionage. Republic Intelligence weren't that great, I really doubt they had the ability to bypass a blockade without stealth tech. Edited August 30, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) But this is really not relevant to the Kaggath folks, lets just agree that jamming tech will have some impact here but can be Sith Intelligence can find a way, whether that be through special tech or just disabling the jammers, to counter this. Edited August 30, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) I would argue your faction doesn't get jammers right off the bat. Your allies provide basic tech and yelling "Pirate!" does not give a bottomless grab bag to pull from. Jammers aren't basic tech, otherwise everyone would use them. Not every pirate used them, otherwise counter-measures would exist in greater numbers. Faster standard speeders, modified ships are all part of a basic pirate kit, communication jammers and other advanced tech are not.Well actually, the Zann Consortium forces were equipped with sensor jammers, so I think there is a precedent for this. Edited August 30, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I would argue your faction doesn't get jammers right off the bat. Your allies provide basic tech and yelling "Pirate!" does not give a bottomless grab bag to pull from. Jammers aren't basic tech, otherwise everyone would use them. Not every pirate used them, otherwise counter-measures would exist in greater numbers. Faster standard speeders, modified ships are all part of a basic pirate kit, communication jammers and other advanced tech are not. *Joking reply* Because... "Pirates!" To be fair, while a Pirates bag is deep, those he robs is even deeper. But yeah, Arg, here there be pirates! Professional Pirates! These Pirates be Black Sun! Har Har Har! To be fair though, jammers are not exactly rare nor expensive. In fact, it seems as if almost every capital ship could perform such an action, I merely say this because many times when the order to jam enemy communications is given, it isn't a special vessel or anything. Though, breaking through communication jamming often factors in proximity, signal strength vs jamming strength, and of course, special equipment if the jamming is exceedingly strong. The previous statement is merely my observations and could very well be mistaken. Carry on, ye Pirates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tausra Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I assumed it would be on the ships, but adding it to ground forces is a huge leap. Ships are crammed with tech, so it is part of typical war package, but how common is it on the ground? Normally that requires a slicer to shut down communications or strategic attack on communication centers. If it were at all common on the ground it would see mentioning more often in more sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 I assumed it would be on the ships, but adding it to ground forces is a huge leap. Ships are crammed with tech, so it is part of typical war package, but how common is it on the ground? Normally that requires a slicer to shut down communications or strategic attack on communication centers. If it were at all common on the ground it would see mentioning more often in more sources.A fair point, but one would assume that they could acquire it fairly quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tausra Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 They'd have to bring ships in with the equipment and try running the Fist blockade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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