It depends, did they bring enough rope?

2 Nay; 3 Yay; 2 undecided/neutral The big issues seem to be: creating a clear limitation for the third force user; the coolness of having a trio; the overpowering nature of the Force.

My count of the votes: 2 Nay, 3 Yay, 1 undecided.

What about video observation, panic buttons? There is something called an alarm that gets sounded in emergencies like this. Kilran lives, Guri is a known variable, she isn't going to be able to slip with any sort of ease. That's the problem with playing your cards too early, everyone can see them on the table.

I say Yay, but only if the limits on the third user are clearly articulated. I don't want to be knee deep in kaggath when the argument breaks out over that third user's fairness/legality. Arbitrary limitations are needed.

The difference between an escape pod and the scanning anyone entering a building is that you can be seen. Those scanners are likely security check points, with security staff on hand. Anomalous, different or non-human readings are going to be detained, which will blow the cylon-ahem-Guri's cover considering what Kilran definitely reported.

Its the reason the missile never saw widespread use. If even 1% of 1,000 accidentally go off inside the ship, then the ship is going to explode in firey death. Not too many ships need to go nuclear to turn the Confederacy navy into scrap, and as you've said Beni, they're going to be firing thousands of those warheads. Game mechanics have to be viable when there is a precedence for their use. We used the in game statistics for the thunderclap, including the highest grade armor and weaponry, with all the cool goodies that can be equipped. You can't pick and choose what is and isn't permissible once the precedence has been set.

How many missiles are we talking? Because they have a certain, very unique flaw. Acceptable military malfunction rate is 5-10%, with 10% being the acceptable norm. If the rate is high enough to actually be noted in the wiki, then it follows the rate could be as high as 20-25%. How effective is it when 1 in every 4 missiles will either go off too early, not go off at all, or explode during firing? Fire a thousand diamond boron and 200-250 are going to behave badly. How many have to be fired before they accidentally rip one of the carriers to pieces? Even ignoring the numbers, there is a notable failure rate, a high failure rate, in these missiles, and it should not be ignored.

Furies where the personal craft of Sith Lords during the height of the Sith Empire. No expense was spared in their creation.

Normally I would agree, the ship size doesn't matter, but logically a larger ship has thicker, better armor, more room for bigger, better shielding,; all of which were benefits we gave the Thunderclaps in the one of the prior rounds. If a ship is big enough to overshadow the spread of damage then it follows the ship should likely walk away from the attack. The same benefit of the doubt which was given to the thunderclap should be given here, their shields are at the bleeding edge of technology, their armor is likewise as advanced.

Technical specs are out of my league, but this seems kind of important

Have you ever put anything metal under the summer sun? The metal gets hot, hotter than the ground around it. Nothing is every totally invisible, and your surprise stealth belts (which have to be delivered first) are no exception. There will be the wind, and your droids will be exposed as gaps in whirling sand. There will be heat, and your droids will show as hotter. Stealth Field belts are great, but along with your Jammers, and other Pirate! gear, has to be delivered. You should hope the Fist are shortsighted enough to go play on the Smuggler's Moon, because every plan the Confederacy has depends on new, outside tech making it to Tatooine.

I've got to stop you right here. There is a reason real smugglers don't get into dailtyshoot outs with the police. Smart smugglers and pirates avoid confrontation. this reason is why there are such things as smuggling routes and secret hyperlanes. You want to live long enough to enjoy things you learn to exist off the radar. If tractor beams could so easily be dodged then Han Solo wouldn't have dropped the spice he was carrying for Jabba, he'd have pulled out one of those maneuvers and gotten away. If Han Solo can't pull it off reliably, neither can your generic, nameless pirate.

I would like to argue against the all-star spacers and pirates, no other army has been able to field all expert level soldiers. Every army has had to deal with variable skills in their troops, even in their elite units. The "simple" flight tricks to dodge tractor beams sound incredibly difficult, and they'd have to be otherwise people would be doing it all the time.

That's kind of what we've been arguing.

Nar Shaddaa: There are no other major factions on the planet, as per the Kaggath rules. No gangs, groups or other major affiliations, because they could be construed as additional factions. So, the moon is all unaffiliated pirates, surrounded by the indomitable fleet. I see no way that the loose criminals and thugs are going to mount an offense against the coordination of the Fist. You also seem to be underestimate the capabilities of the Hailfire. Guided warheads and alternate equipment. The Hailfire can be reloaded on the fly and adjust the situation rather quickly, provided supplies are brought along. Guided warheads negate the height advantage, as described here: The Hailfire was a mobile platform of high speed, high explosive death.

Hailfire droids have a greater range than anything the Black Sun can put on the field. They fire missiles the same way droidekas fire their blasters, in very quick, very deadly volleys. The transport trick is cute, but would ultimately be ineffective as the artillery of the Fist will shred the transports as they hit sensor range. Another thing, it isn't hard to "lead" your target, especially with the advanced droid brains in use, so when the transports stealth, the wall of missiles will likely connect in some fashion. Something that hasn't be discussed is the limitations of current stealth technology. You can visually hide somethign all you want, in the loose sand of the Dune Sea, the repulsors will almost certainly kick up sand and debris. The same is true of large sized, heavy artillery pieces using stealth generators, they will leave traces and marks in the sand as they move. The technology cannot hide this. If the Fist fleet moves to Nar Shaddaa, I wouldn't expect anyone to want to hang out. The Black Sun may have the magical ability to create complete, unflinching loyalty, but most scum would rather run or hide than deal with something as impressive as the Fist fleet. Criminals don't go to war, they're not soldiers, they go to ground first. This isn't Die Hard, criminals don't go toe to toe with the military.

What if we instituted an arbitrary restriction on Battle Meditation? Something like restricting it to either being offensive (harming your enemy effectiveness) or defensive (boosting your own troops). This way it doesn't automatically undo the tactical discussion.

I think Cad Bane, Cade, Aurra and Talon could beat almost anyone with battle meditation/drain because by the time the battle starts they're ending it. Battle Meditation/Drain work best against slow moving targets and opponents; the key to beating them would be to hit before they can react.

I apologize for my ranting during the argument. between the IDD and the EoP. I have like 4 things in the Lore that I can't stand; Traviss and the Mary Sue-dalorians; Revan (Lord and Savior of Star Wars); Yuuzhan (we're like you, but better, in every way); and anyone who doesn't love Christopher Lee and Darth Tyr-Awesome.

Heh, the discussion tempts me to play guinea pig and post my idea for a faction, so that everyone could use it as an arguing point and example.

I admit to having thought of an all assassin/bounty hunter team whose whole focus was executing leadership. The tentative leaderships was Cad Bane, Aurra Sing, Cade Skywalker (or maybe Grievous) and Darth Talon. They'd have the fastest ships I could arrange, and troops focusing on infiltration and execution. The only debate would be how fast they could arrange the event. However I'm watching this debate with marked interest because I have a very brutal team that might get worse depending on the number of Force users allowed.

Why couldn't they pull a RotJ? They have pirates who attempted to board their boats, why not steal some clothes and replace some of them?

Lets assume we use the three force users thing, would we say someone like Aurra Sing could be third slot, or would it have to be based on power level?

Which is what I thought. Means it is possible though, and considering Dooku knows the ins and outs of their design, something that the troops would know.