LanceCorporalDan Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Stop acting like there aren't already flag zones or the option to do so on PvE servers, BW obviously has an interest in throwing a bone to another player base. It isn't like it's even PvP oriented! The objective is still stale PvE!! Lol. "Forcing PvP on you" would be requiring you to kill other players or put you in a situation where you no other options. What BW could've done (if they aren't already planning on doing so) is add a bolster similar to wz's. PvP gear in WPvP has such a huge advantage over PvE in the expertise gap, while that same PvP gear is viable for all story mode PvE content at the same time. So adding a bolster would at least make a much much more level playing field and act as an umbrella from all of this fallout whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I wonder if it won't be possible to lure the commanders out of the PvP Zone or at least close enough for all the ranged users in the group to stay outside the PvP area, thus not flagging them for PvP. Because it seemed like in the stream they could kite him quite close to the area where the PvP zone starts. That said, I don't care either way. I'm fine with the Commanders being in PvP areas. It's not like there will be enemy guilds standing watch 24/7 on all the commanders on each server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prisoner Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) What BW could've done (if they aren't already planning on doing so) is add a bolster similar to wz's. PvP gear in WPvP has such a huge advantage over PvE in the expertise gap, while that same PvP gear is viable for all story mode PvE content at the same time. So adding a bolster would at least make a much much more level playing field and act as an umbrella from all of this fallout whining. I see where you're coming from, but let's be real: nothing is going to mitigate the whining and crying about this unless the PVP part is taken out entirely. Which Bioware isn't going to do at this stage in the game (YAY!). Besides, it's not like it's all that hard to get a basic set of pvp gear. It takes like what? A week or two of warzones to put together a basic set? So sure, they could try something like bolstering the area, but it's not really all that necessary considering how easy and quick it is to gear yourself properly. Hell, warzones are already full of PVEers camping west it with like 500 expertise because they want the Brutalizer relics for raiding. At least this way they have an incentive to get a full set. P.S. loling forever at the guy who thinks tanks are worthless in pvp. I haven't seen that much ignorance on the forums in a very long time. Comedy gold. Edited August 7, 2014 by Prisoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I see where you're coming from, but let's be real: nothing is going to mitigate the whining and crying about this unless the PVP part is taken out entirely. Which Bioware isn't going to do at this stage in the game (YAY!). Besides, it's not like it's all that hard to get a basic set of pvp gear. It takes like what? A week or two of warzones to put together a basic set? So sure, they could try something like bolstering the area, but it's not really all that necessary considering how easy and quick it is to gear yourself properly. Agreed on all points. I for one can't wait, there are sure to be some epic battles to come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I wonder if it won't be possible to lure the commanders out of the PvP Zone or at least close enough for all the ranged users in the group to stay outside the PvP area, thus not flagging them for PvP. Because it seemed like in the stream they could kite him quite close to the area where the PvP zone starts. That said, I don't care either way. I'm fine with the Commanders being in PvP areas. It's not like there will be enemy guilds standing watch 24/7 on all the commanders on each server. Pick the guild you dislike the most, once they are at their weekly planet and invade, that's where they are staying for 6 days, easy to stop their conquests, assuming they don't run 24/7 coverage. Then again, I can really only stomach an hour these days before Swtor puts me to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashwinn Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Because when your PVP skill and equipment are greater than mine you can make a difference on a coordinated team? We've moved on from that tangent and we're back to arguing about PvP flagging areas on PvE servers and whether or not it's a good idea to force players into gameplay styles they don't want to participate in. Some say it is, some say it isn't, some say that they're forced to play PvE in a primarily PvE game so I should be forced to play PvP in a primarily PvE game, some say that's not so. As has been noted, none of this will change anything, so the real purpose of the thread, to add a whine tally on the "I don't like open world PvP" list the devs keep, has been accomplished. Maybe if I'm lucky there will be more of them when the content releases, or people won't use the content until the campers get bored after a few months. This one week warzone veteran has no bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 The tears are delicious.they truly are its astounding to me that this new game patch that is 99.99% PvE/crafting based has one single pvp element in it and the PvEers are pitching a fit because during peak hours, they will actually have to compete against guilds in the "guild competition" system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I wonder if it won't be possible to lure the commanders out of the PvP Zone or at least close enough for all the ranged users in the group to stay outside the PvP area, thus not flagging them for PvP. Because it seemed like in the stream they could kite him quite close to the area where the PvP zone starts. That said, I don't care either way. I'm fine with the Commanders being in PvP areas. It's not like there will be enemy guilds standing watch 24/7 on all the commanders on each server. I would have thought that attacking a base guard (which is basically what the commander is) counts as auto-flag (just like attacking flagged player), but the stream shows that is not really the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I will never get bored of stalking and killing you. We are at war, it is what opposing factions do. You want to play the content, you play by the rules, and the rules say, you are about to die. For an extra fun element I will devise a plan just for you where you think you are to take down a boss and boom.....oops, you are a corpse. The galactic war in all it's glory, as it always should have been! Am tempted to transfer some toons to a PVE server just for kicks. Hey sure, PvP servers have their ruleset that say you can kill anyone, but then again, corpse-camping a lower level or ungeared player is just extreme douchebaggery, even you have to see that, no? Attacking and killing once, fine, you stroked your epeen a bit, but corpse-camping is just being an obnoxious douchebag... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Hey sure, PvP servers have their ruleset that say you can kill anyone, but then again, corpse-camping a lower level or ungeared player is just extreme douchebaggery, even you have to see that, no? Attacking and killing once, fine, you stroked your epeen a bit, but corpse-camping is just being an obnoxious douchebag...its a videogame where servers have different rulesets. a pvp server's ruleset involves a voluntary choice to flag yourself for combat vs other players. in short, you gave me your permission to attack you. whats "douchebaggy" about that? the entire point is to kill other players. im not saying there is much sense of accomplishment by killing lowbies, or that it's necessarily fulfilling, but anytime i anger someone on the opposing faction or make their lives difficult is a win in my book. it's no different than targeting bad players in an online fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 its a videogame where servers have different rulesets. a pvp server's ruleset involves a voluntary choice to flag yourself for combat vs other players. in short, you gave me your permission to attack you. whats "douchebaggy" about that? the entire point is to kill other players. im not saying there is much sense of accomplishment by killing lowbies, or that it's necessarily fulfilling, but anytime i anger someone on the opposing faction or make their lives difficult is a win in my book. it's no different than targeting bad players in an online fps. I said that killing when encountering is fine on PvP servers, but that corpse-camping (meaning that you sit around, throwing AoEs under the person you just killed, waiting for them to respawn and kill them before they can react, because AoE takes you right out of the resurrection stealth) is acting like a douchebag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I said that killing when encountering is fine on PvP servers, but that corpse-camping (meaning that you sit around, throwing AoEs under the person you just killed, waiting for them to respawn and kill them before they can react, because AoE takes you right out of the resurrection stealth) is acting like a douchebag.you are invulnerable after being killed by a player...you dont pvp much do you this game made it easy to avoid this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 you are invulnerable after being killed by a player...you dont pvp much do you this game made it easy to avoid this. Pretty sure I got knocked out of stealth by AoE or knockback after using "Revive Here" option, and I certainly was not invulnerable. One of my guildies also said it happened to him, but I did not really do much study on this. And I "PvP" a lot, given I am on PvP server. Just saying that even though I am on PvP server, there are some behaviors I just think of as douchebaggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 whats "douchebaggy" about that? This: anytime i anger someone on the opposing faction or make their lives difficult is a win in my book. Is it allowed within the rules? Yes. (Unless there's some sort of anti-griefing rule that applies, but I doubt it.) Is it douchebaggy behavior? Yes. No one is saying you're not allowed to do just that. No one is saying you are breaking the rules or not playing fair by doing that. No one is even saying that the people you're doing it to didn't open themselves to exactly that possibility. But by making the choice to do that (even though it is allowed within the rules) you are still being a douche. Simple fact is, there's no law against being an a-hole. But that fact doesn't make an a-hole any less of an a-hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 This: Is it allowed within the rules? Yes. (Unless there's some sort of anti-griefing rule that applies, but I doubt it.) Is it douchebaggy behavior? Yes. No one is saying you're not allowed to do just that. No one is saying you are breaking the rules or not playing fair by doing that. No one is even saying that the people you're doing it to didn't open themselves to exactly that possibility. But by making the choice to do that (even though it is allowed within the rules) you are still being a douche. Simple fact is, there's no law against being an a-hole. But that fact doesn't make an a-hole any less of an a-hole.you've simply made a declaration without any sort of premises. why is killing another make me a douche? i have their consent. they are the opposing team. they are enemies. making my enemies upset or blocking their progression is the entire point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daekarus Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 making my enemies upset or blocking their progression is the entire point. This is precisely why people roll on PvE servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 This is precisely why people roll on PvE servers.yes...im not sure if anyone disagrees with that...in principle or practice. they should be on a pve server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daekarus Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 yes...im not sure if anyone disagrees with that...in principle or practice. they should be on a pve server. So by extension you understand that adding automatic PvP flagging areas to PvE servers totally defeats the purpose of that choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 you've simply made a declaration without any sort of premises. why is killing another make me a douche? i have their consent. they are the opposing team. they are enemies. making my enemies upset or blocking their progression is the entire point. Premise One: As a matter of definition, a "douchebag" is a person who engages in a pattern of obnoxious behavior. Premise Two: In the context of a video game, deliberately trying to make other players upset or angry is obnoxious behavior. Conclusion: In the context of a video game, engaging in a pattern of play in which your goal is to deliberately upset or anger other players makes you a douchebag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Premise One: As a matter of definition, a "douchebag" is a person who engages in a pattern of obnoxious behavior. Premise Two: In the context of a video game, deliberately trying to make other players upset or angry is obnoxious behavior. Conclusion: In the context of a video game, engaging in a pattern of play in which your goal is to deliberately upset or anger other players makes you a douchebag.Premise two is false. This game is about killing other players. They are opponents. It's the entire objective. Why is this hard to understand? Is a good boxer a douchebag for punching a bad boxer in the face? It's naive to assume people should only kill you in a video game based on killing in a manner that pleases you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Premise two is false. This game is about killing other players. They are opponents. It's the entire objective. Why is this hard to understand? Is a good boxer a douchebag for punching a bad boxer in the face? It's naive to assume people should only kill you in a video game based on killing in a manner that pleases you. He would be a bad boxer if he stood over his opponent and taunted him after putting him to the mat, there is no honor in that. Defeat your enemies and move on. A bad PvPer has to taunt other players in order to feel victorious, a good PvPer simply wins and moves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 making my enemies upset or blocking their progression is the entire point. I love PvP and this has NEVER EVER been my objective. Upsetting people brings you joy? Seriously...what the hell? Are you really that ignorant that you don't see how self defeating that mentality is? What happens when that player stops logging in? What happens when enough players stop logging in that you begin to wait longer in queues? What happens when the queues suddenly cease to pop? Do you "win" then? HELL NO!!!! You've just become the biggest looser! PvP is as much about respecting your enemy as anything else...because they are your ONLY content. Forget that part of it and you're a fool! Piss them off and they stop playing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I love PvP and this has NEVER EVER been my objective. Upsetting people brings you joy? Seriously...what the hell? Are you really that ignorant that you don't see how self defeating that mentality is? What happens when that player stops logging in? What happens when enough players stop logging in that you begin to wait longer in queues? What happens when the queues suddenly cease to pop? Do you "win" then? HELL NO!!!! You've just become the biggest looser! PvP is as much about respecting your enemy as anything else...because they are your ONLY content. Forget that part of it and you're a fool! Piss them off and they stop playing with you. Respect, that is the word we should all be looking for, thanks TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) So by extension you understand that adding automatic PvP flagging areas to PvE servers totally defeats the purpose of that choice? It's still your choice to go in there. There are alternate means to everything, just because PvPers on every server got thrown a bone isn't a reason to complain. As I said earlier, a bolster similar to wz's in those areas would seem sufficient. Edited August 7, 2014 by LanceCorporalDan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 He would be a bad boxer if he stood over his opponent and taunted him after putting him to the mat, there is no honor in that. Defeat your enemies and move on. A bad PvPer has to taunt other players in order to feel victorious, a good PvPer simply wins and moves on."honor" is subjective and your requirement. insisting that everyone shares your values and definition of "honor" is naive and unfounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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