Guild Ship Frameworks and PVP Flagging

[K_osss]

Extra money, rings, prestige, extra fan attention, none of that translates into a direct advantage on the field, as opposed to superior PVP gear that winners get upon winning in instanced PVP.

 

So you don't think extra money has helped the Cowboys or the Yankees win games?

[Joesixxpack]

Extra money, rings, prestige, extra fan attention, none of that translates into a direct advantage on the field, as opposed to superior PVP gear that winners get upon winning in instanced PVP.

 

Equal opportunity exists, so not sure what your point is. The PVE gear set that I have for occasional Ops with guildies is pretty mediocre. If I want to kill the new guild content bosses or latest NiM stuff with them then the onus is on me to get better gear; despite my godly sage tanking skills

[Infernixx]

So you don't think extra money has helped the Cowboys or the Yankees win games?

 

Has it allowed them to have superior gear on the field? No. So, no. Their success at the Super Bowl has not translated into advantages on the field. They're not allowed to use better shoes, better pads. All gear is 'regulated' carefully by officials. That's the sign of a fair system. Not like PVP in a video game.

[TUXs]

Extra money, rings, prestige, extra fan attention, none of that translates into a direct advantage on the field, as opposed to superior PVP gear that winners get upon winning in instanced PVP.

Of course it does, just like it will here. The better sport players go where they can get more money and more rings...the better players will likely do the same here.

[Infernixx]

Of course it does, just like it will here. The better sport players go where they can get more money and more rings...the better players will likely do the same here.

 

And that shifting of talent from team to team is counter-balanced by the Draft each year where the worst teams from the year before are given first-choice in picking from the rookies from the colleges and minor leagues.

 

The Draft gives the worst teams a leg up. The winners of the Super Bowl from the year before get to pick 'last' in each round of picking.

 

So, no. Again. Winning does not translate into advantages on the playing field.

 

If PVPers were serious about wanting an even playing field, they would be okay with equal gear across the field. That's how they did it in the gaming tournaments that I've seen.

[K_osss]

Has it allowed them to have superior gear on the field? No. So, no. Their success at the Super Bowl has not translated into advantages on the field. They're not allowed to use better shoes, better pads. All gear is 'regulated' carefully by officials. That's the sign of a fair system. Not like PVP in a video game.

 

I think it's foolish to think better cleats and a nicer uniform hold a candle to the players ability in competitive sports when it comes to winning or losing. I suspect you do as well. What money does attract is better quality players or more of them. Which does give a team a competitive edge on the field. Also more money allows for better facilities for players to push themselves and make themselves better.... But I think we both know that.

Edited August 6, 2014 by K_osss

[TUXs]

If PVPers were serious about wanting an even playing field, they would be okay with equal gear across the field. That's how they did it in the gaming tournaments that I've seen.

Equal? Meaning I could do NiM content in my top end PvP gear? Are you talking 180 or 186's for both? I'm 100% fine with expertise being removed, but PvP gear needs to be no more than 1 tier below PvE gear. Equal doesn't mean shifting the balance to PvE gear...but I would absolutely LOVE gear to be equal!!!

[K_osss]

As a side note I play GW2 and enjoy the gear being a level playing field. But for me i like having something to work towards too. Even if i never make it before the release a new set of gear. I think i've got 4 brutalizer pieces on my main and 1 or 2 on my commando healer. The rest of the gear on my 55's is just conqueror. So I'm by no means "geared". But i do like having something to work towards. Even if it's a measly 10 more damage and 500 more health.

 

In the end i prefer SWTOR's pvp simply because it's got a small progression to it.

[Infernixx]

As a side note I play GW2 and enjoy the gear being a level playing field. But for me i like having something to work towards too. Even if i never make it before the release a new set of gear. I think i've got 4 brutalizer pieces on my main and 1 or 2 on my commando healer. The rest of the gear on my 55's is just conqueror. So I'm by no means "geared". But i do like having something to work towards. Even if it's a measly 10 more damage and 500 more health.

 

In the end i prefer SWTOR's pvp simply because it's got a small progression to it.

 

Progression doesn't have to mean 'better gear.'

[Joesixxpack]

If PVPers were serious about wanting an even playing field, they would be okay with equal gear across the field. That's how they did it in the gaming tournaments that I've seen.

 

I've seen a lot of requests and comments for gear parity, and none against it. Have you found any against it?

 

Bioware developed the separate system, take it up with them. Posting sour grapes because you don't like PVP is hardly constructive.

[Infernixx]

Equal? Meaning I could do NiM content in my top end PvP gear? Are you talking 180 or 186's for both? I'm 100% fine with expertise being removed, but PvP gear needs to be no more than 1 tier below PvE gear. Equal doesn't mean shifting the balance to PvE gear...but I would absolutely LOVE gear to be equal!!!

 

I would change the system to make PVE gear completely useless. Unable to be used in instanced PVP. Upon hitting max level, you're given a full set of gear of Expertise PVP gear.

 

The provided gear has set stats, not mods/enhancements/whatever to be swapped out before the fight starts.

 

PVP progression would not be better gear, but better looking gear. Stupidly awesome looking gear. Go all out. Mounts, pets, titles, stuff that people have a reason to brag about.

 

Better gear as a progression path just shifts the system increasingly toward the better geared. Skill becomes secondary to gear. This happens in PVE too, but Bosses don't play the game, nor do they whine on the forums, so screw them.

[Infernixx]

I've seen a lot of requests and comments for gear parity, and none against it. Have you found any against it?

 

Bioware developed the separate system, take it up with them. Posting sour grapes because you don't like PVP is hardly constructive.

 

In this thread, several posts tried to suggest that the Super Bowl winners had an unfair field advantage because of their past successes. I would say that those posts constitute an endorsement of the current system and not gear parity.

[LanceCorporalDan]

Equal? Meaning I could do NiM content in my top end PvP gear? Are you talking 180 or 186's for both? I'm 100% fine with expertise being removed, but PvP gear needs to be no more than 1 tier below PvE gear. Equal doesn't mean shifting the balance to PvE gear...but I would absolutely LOVE gear to be equal!!!

 

Agree 100%

[K_osss]

Progression doesn't have to mean 'better gear.'

 

Correct, but "better gear" is more useful in this game as it helps speed up my dailies and FP/OPS. I'm practical, so if I can improve my gaming experience. That's what I will do and enjoy doing it. I'm talking about the game as it exists, rather than a game design in my head.

 

Unfortunately for me, and maybe it's just me cosmetics don't motivate me. Sure I like them, but when push comes to shove they don't motivate me as much as stats.

 

Same way for cars. I like fast cars more than i like cars that look fast.

[Pagy]

So if we dislike how PvP is conducted, the cheap tactics employed, and roll on a PvE server specifically to avoid those things, then we're not entitled to our opinions when they throw PvP stuff into the most anticipated guild activity ever? You amaze me.

and you can avoid them.

 

don't enter pvp areas

[Lotharofxev]

1) Soooo glad I put infernix on 'ignore'. LOL @ his statements I quickly perused from other's quoting.

 

2) I'm STILL trying to wrap my head around the OP's comment about tanks in PvP. A Jugg or PT is an incredible ball-carrier / node defender, disrupter of the other team.

[Infernixx]

Correct, but "better gear" is more useful in this game as it helps speed up my dailies and FP/OPS. I'm practical, so if I can improve my gaming experience. That's what I will do and enjoy doing it. I'm talking about the game as it exists, rather than a game design in my head.

 

Unfortunately for me, and maybe it's just me cosmetics don't motivate me. Sure I like them, but when push comes to shove they don't motivate me as much as stats.

 

Same way for cars. I like fast cars more than i like cars that look fast.

 

Edit: How about instead of getting PVP gear, you get PVE gear instead. Equivalent stuff to 180 or 186 stuff for the top players. No expertise gear rewards.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Infernixx

[K_osss]

Equal? Meaning I could do NiM content in my top end PvP gear? Are you talking 180 or 186's for both? I'm 100% fine with expertise being removed, but PvP gear needs to be no more than 1 tier below PvE gear. Equal doesn't mean shifting the balance to PvE gear...but I would absolutely LOVE gear to be equal!!!

 

If they bolstered to where a new player was really no less that 10% (or some reasonable amount less). I'd love this. If it was implemented without bolster the poor new 55's would just get thrashed. Which would be un-fun for everyone involved. I guess bolster would then need to be applied all the time rather than just warzones on PvP servers.

[K_osss]

Edit: How about instead of getting PVP gear, you get PVE gear instead. Equivalent stuff to 180 or 186 stuff for the top players. No expertise gear rewards.

 

Sign me up! just make sure the newer players who just hit 55 don't get screwed over cause everyone who's had a week or 2 to play would be in 180's while they would be in 130's. That would be too big of a gap i think. But bolster could fill in here I imagine!

 

Unfortunately the game isn't designed this way! But I wouldn't mind if it was, in fact i'd support it!

[Prisoner]

Honestly, I was abivilent about this expansion, until I saw this thread. Now, I can't wait. I mean, the crying over the one bone PVPers have been thrown in months has already started and the expansion hasn't even landed. The tears over this are going to be EPIC. Edited August 6, 2014 by Prisoner

[Pagy]

To be expected on most PvE servers I'd assume. My experiences with WPvP are similar but more expansive:

 

• Gankers try to gank lowbies on some planet because they aren't skilled enough for fair fights.
  
• One side makes ops group to fight them off.
  
• Other side does the same as retaliation.
  
• Large battles ensue with varying pushes, retreats, counterattacks, and good fun in an ever changing battle.
  

 

On top of that you have server PvP events organized for the purpose of large scale tactical battles involving multiple guilds (tons of fun!).

 

I admit, these "events" are filled with gankers, some are hunting achievements, others are looking to start large fights, some are just plain bored. The varying degree of PvPers you can find in the PvE population... some are great people, some are asses, others haven't a clue, you have elitists, you have the average player who enjoys it all etc. I think BW is going in the right direction to offer something to the PvP crowd in conquests... I mean it is a war! And hopefully we can see some more objectives with PvP avenues to complete them without infringing on others.

i still dont understand how "ganking" can happen in a pvp server.

 

you choose a pvp server with its rules, you play and leave a safe zone and you flag yourself; you give consent to be attacked.

 

there's no such thing as ganking. it's all pvp. if you are scared or bothered by flagging yourself, then choose a pve server where you can manually do it.

[Infernixx]

Sign me up! just make sure the newer players who just hit 55 don't get screwed over cause everyone who's had a week or 2 to play would be in 180's while they would be in 130's. That would be too big of a gap i think. But bolster could fill in here I imagine!

 

Unfortunately the game isn't designed this way! But I wouldn't mind if it was, in fact i'd support it!

 

Well, in my system, instanced PVP wouldn't allow you to use PVE gear. It simply wouldn't function and you'd get blown up in seconds as you'd have like...3k health and hit like a wet noodle.

 

This was more to see how people felt about an equal playing field.

[DarthTHC]

I'm not sure why you feel that would be necessary. You aren't going in there to fight in some 1v1 duels or something. Every class archetype has a place in PvP, and you'll need full OPs groups to kill the Commanders anyway.

 

You'll need an ops group of 8 to kill the commanders and an ops group of 24 to defend the ops group of 8 killing the commander.

 

On the other hand, another poster calculated it as something like 6,700 hours of runs through old raid content to get the components required to craft all the upgrades instead of take them from commanders.

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Infernixx]

Honestly, I was abivilent about this expansion, until I saw this thread. Now, I can't wait. I mean, the crying over the one bone PVPers have been thrown in months has already started and the expansion hasn't even landed. The tears over this are going to be EPIC.

 

This does not help anyone feel more sympathetic toward PVPers when they come complaining about lack of focus on PVP, you know.

[Prisoner]

This does not help anyone feel more sympathetic toward PVPers when they come complaining about lack of focus on PVP, you know.

 

Yes because I'm sure if you were sympathetic to us PVPers we'd finally get new maps, unique ranked rewards and a huttball league! Cause you're just that special and important to Bioware! LMAO.

 

God, this is going to be good. I cannot freaking wait for the expansion to land now.