Why I should be able to buy PVP gear with Cartel coins

[kirorx]

I dont agree with buying gear via CM coins.

 

BUT, i understand the sentiment about the gear grind

 

As a guy who was playing when we were doing the stupid Battlemaster Bags and all that jazz, I have had to regrind over and over and over again.

 

Unlike PvE where new sets came with new content, for the PvP community it was just a case of making old gear obsolete and adding in new gear but adding very little as far as content. Maybe 1 warzone each time. It extremely redundant. Same old Huttball we played before brackets is the same exact huttball i am playing to get the new gear

 

Frankly, the gear in PvP eventually turned me from a PvP guy to a PvE guy, it was just the same old stuff all the time.

 

Other rewards or something would of been fine. I dont need a PvP gear grind, I would be fine with all equal. Maybe just buy cool shells from playing warzones.

 

So when someone says they want to buy the new stuff, that person may have already put in time here. Playing since Beta, maybe they just dont want to have regrind gear because they PvP for the PvP.

Edited July 22, 2014 by kirorx

[Trevalion]

Just because you pay for a service doesn't mean they should cater to your every whim. You also said that you would like to shortcut the system again just because you can throw morw money doesn't give you a right ti a shortcut.

 

Id also like to point out that time spent does in fact equal reward, meaning that the system in places requires time to achieve a desired result. Your argument is not one of being able to get into the fray quicker, but of extreme laziness and convience.

 

Also, it's a slippery slope as well because if one aspect of gearing can be bought then where does ir end? Yes, people have lives but an mmo requires time and if you can't commit sorry for you. But BW is not obligated to hold your hand because you can't make time.

 

In a good business, the customer is always right. I'm not saying BW has to do anything. I'm suggesting it.

 

If the system requires time investment and its good enough to keep me interested then yes, I would use it. I'm here aren't I?

[theUndead]

Personally I 100% agree with the OP.

It may be hard for lots of you guys to imagine this but many of us HAVE LIVES and don't have the time to grind in pvp for hours on end so we just want a less time consuming way to obtain what the people who can grind in pvp for hours on end have. Makes sense right?

 

No. Because you assume that just becsuse we put in the required time suddenly means we have no life. Again as I said if they did this where does it end? So no this should not happen. Ever.

[PloGreen]

I cant spend enough hours in game to grind ranked in order to obtain and min/max the current top tier set across all my alts. The time required is unreasonable.

 

I've already sunk over a year into PVP in this game and the grind does nothing for me. Don't get me wrong, I really like the instanced PVP, and world PVP (when it happens) is usually pretty darn awesome. I will continue to play and slowly gear out all my alts. I have elite warlord on my main, and all of my 55 alts are well up over conqueror valor level.

 

That is my main problem though. Although I will be playing the PVP anyway (its where I get the most enjoyment in the game), and I'm going to get the gear by default just by playing, it takes to long to gear out alts over and over. But I want to. I want all my alts to be geared. However, my personal time is too valuable compared to having geared alts so I don't do it. It takes to effing long.

 

I want to be able to BUY both teirs of PVP gear sets with the Cartel coins I can save up for my subscription bonus or buy outright.

 

It's not pay to win, and here is why I believe that.

 

First, a little anecdotal experience if you care.

 

I play MWO (Mechwarrior Online) as well, especially when I get too annoyed while playing SWTOR. MWO is a fantastic (battlemech) mech game, that is all about PVP but with giant piloted mechanical tanks, lasers, missiles etc.

The ultimate power in that universe is of course, your battlemech chassis + loadout. Nothing quite as fearsome as watching a Atlas come rolling over the ridge with lasers and AC's pouring out of it while it's shrugging off my medium mechs firepower.

See, in MWO you can (and are encouraged to) buy the chassis using real money (mechwarrior credits). The chassis you own directly affect how effective you can be in a match by providing platforms with different loadouts and features.

The mech chassis you BUY directly effects the amount of firepower you can bring to a match.

However, MWO is definitely NOT pay to win. Simply purchasing a chassis does not guarantee victory. First you have to earn experience in that chassis, and second you actually have to have the skills to play in that chassis. You CAN purchase some clear advantages in chassis weight and loadout, thats all.

 

 

So, how does this translate to SWTOR?

 

 

 

The tier of the armor set you have doesn't guarantee you victory. In fact, I have seen and experienced multiple warzones where people (other than myself) whose gear set I know because I know them personally, are destroyed by other people who are less geared but more experienced. It goes without saying that I have ridden that horse too.

But the gear does make a difference in straight up numbers. You do more damage to lower tier geared and take less damage from lower tiered geared players. Period. Indisputable.

In fact the whole paradigm of SWTOR pvp right now is that; If you have put in the time to get the gear you DESERVE to do more damage and take less damage from players who have put in less time than you.

 

I think this is a terrible reward system for PVP. It affects all players negatively.

 

Let me buy the PVP gear instead of grinding for PVP gear, and then give rewards for time spent playing PVP that are less disparate than the indisputable advantage that comes from wearing top tier gear.

Right now my only real reward for time spent is just a title. I would prefer bonuses other than gear that give advantages to a higher valor player (PvP skill tree's, gear shells with unique set bonuses, optimization options not available at lower valor levels, unique mounts, unique dyes, unique pets, the list goes on). In PVP the gear disparity should NOT be my carrot.

Also, please, I am aware that Bolster is supposed to be alleviating that problem. My personal opinion is that it is somewhat effective, but not as effective as I want it to be. For bolster to really work it should give 100% parity in gear. But the Bolster system is demonstrably buggy and exploitable.

Simplify things for me as a paying customer. You don't have to change your system at all, just put the PVP gear on the Cartel market. Hopefully in the future you can implement better PVP reward systems.

 

And for all the folks flaming:

 

Main: Trevalion (Commando)

55 Alts: Deathticle (Shadow), Hightower (Sentinel), Octaire (Guardian)

30-54 Alts: Trevalion (Scoundrel), Epica (Sage), DarkOrb (Gunslinger), Treva'tiger (powertech), ...

Server: Harbinger

Black-Ball legacy

 

No. Play the game, get the gear. This just means you skip the actual learning to play part, if you don't have time to play mmos then that's on you. Pay to win is awful, and I doubt you will get much support from pvpers. All this means is people who are prepared to spend the money get instant gratification - - no ty.

[eerinbastile]

Personally I 100% agree with the OP.

It may be hard for lots of you guys to imagine this but many of us HAVE LIVES and don't have the time to grind in pvp for hours on end so we just want a less time consuming way to obtain what the people who can grind in pvp for hours on end have. Makes sense right?

 

3 weeks of double comms isn't enough? it's like PvP gear is hard to get anyway. I couldn't imagine the QQ if it was still BM/Champion bags.

 

Rofl.

Edited July 22, 2014 by eerinbastile

[Pekish]

you see a problem "gear imbalance" and you give a solution that actually ruin the game for yourself

 

the beauty of MMO is advancing your character thanks to your in game effort, i understand that is frustrating face enemy much more organized/geared with close to zero chance to win

 

but the solution is not like a 2y/o kid i want it all nownownwonwownwowno take my money a mature person would see the problem and find a better solution

 

maybe create a war zone or 2 where gear are equalized but reduce the reward in that one or something smarter then paying for gear that is a very very very bad idea that open to many horrible consequences

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Personally I 100% agree with the OP.

It may be hard for lots of you guys to imagine this but many of us HAVE LIVES and don't have the time to grind in pvp for hours on end so we just want a less time consuming way to obtain what the people who can grind in pvp for hours on end have. Makes sense right?

 

Bolster exists for you people who play less than 15 hours a week. If you pvp a couple of hours a day on average, you are super casual, playing while the missus watches her crappy soaps on tv etc and it is enough to gear up, easily. If you cannot, you are not pvping. I have done it on all my toons, some weeks I don't log for a few days, some weeks I get more free time. All my 55s are in at least min/maxed Oberan, and I think 4 of them almost finished Brut. It is easy, it is not a grind even for those of us with busy lives.

Edited July 22, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[CaptainApop]

ITT: A horde of people who have never experienced what actual pay-to-win is.

 

That said BW selling gear would just tell me that they've completely lost sight of what in the hell they're doing with this game. Particularly with regards to PvP content and reward systems. It's getting asinine.

[AngusFTW]

If You have an issue gettin a set of obroan atm Maybe an mmo is not the game for u.....

[fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg]

Ok, let me put this in a nutshell. Some of us don't want to grind for several hours straight because it gets effing old.

Buying PvP gear of the CM would have another advantage to it because you would have less people undergeared allowing for a fairer warzone and an equal chance to succeeded (and yes I know that most of it is just skill!).

I can also see a good financial opportunity for Bioware if this were to be implemented. They would earn more money for the game because of millions of people buying PvP gear. Now how could they pass that up?

[Joesixxpack]

Personally I 100% agree with the OP.

It may be hard for lots of you guys to imagine this but many of us HAVE LIVES and don't have the time to grind in pvp for hours on end so we just want a less time consuming way to obtain what the people who can grind in pvp for hours on end have. Makes sense right?

 

I have a life and it's better than yours. What's that have to do with anything?

 

The idea proposed is stupid ********. There are plenty of crap p2w pvp games out there, this doesn't need to be one too.

[DiscipleXIII]

Grind PVP hours on end? Doesn't exactly take that long. I have 4 jobs and am a full time student and I still have found time to get geared for PVP. And augmented on top of that.

[PrincessNuri]

Why is this discussion still open, pay-to-win will never happen. You will end up grinding your gear anyway making this thread pointless or you will move on to another game, also making this thread pointless. Edited July 22, 2014 by PrincessNuri

[Raansu]

I cant spend enough hours in game to grind ranked in order to obtain and min/max the current top tier set across all my alts. The time required is unreasonable.

 

I've already sunk over a year into PVP in this game and the grind does nothing for me. Don't get me wrong, I really like the instanced PVP, and world PVP (when it happens) is usually pretty darn awesome. I will continue to play and slowly gear out all my alts. I have elite warlord on my main, and all of my 55 alts are well up over conqueror valor level.

 

That is my main problem though. Although I will be playing the PVP anyway (its where I get the most enjoyment in the game), and I'm going to get the gear by default just by playing, it takes to long to gear out alts over and over. But I want to. I want all my alts to be geared. However, my personal time is too valuable compared to having geared alts so I don't do it. It takes to effing long.

 

I want to be able to BUY both teirs of PVP gear sets with the Cartel coins I can save up for my subscription bonus or buy outright.

 

It's not pay to win, and here is why I believe that.

 

First, a little anecdotal experience if you care.

 

I play MWO (Mechwarrior Online) as well, especially when I get too annoyed while playing SWTOR. MWO is a fantastic (battlemech) mech game, that is all about PVP but with giant piloted mechanical tanks, lasers, missiles etc.

The ultimate power in that universe is of course, your battlemech chassis + loadout. Nothing quite as fearsome as watching a Atlas come rolling over the ridge with lasers and AC's pouring out of it while it's shrugging off my medium mechs firepower.

See, in MWO you can (and are encouraged to) buy the chassis using real money (mechwarrior credits). The chassis you own directly affect how effective you can be in a match by providing platforms with different loadouts and features.

The mech chassis you BUY directly effects the amount of firepower you can bring to a match.

However, MWO is definitely NOT pay to win. Simply purchasing a chassis does not guarantee victory. First you have to earn experience in that chassis, and second you actually have to have the skills to play in that chassis. You CAN purchase some clear advantages in chassis weight and loadout, thats all.

 

 

So, how does this translate to SWTOR?

 

 

 

The tier of the armor set you have doesn't guarantee you victory. In fact, I have seen and experienced multiple warzones where people (other than myself) whose gear set I know because I know them personally, are destroyed by other people who are less geared but more experienced. It goes without saying that I have ridden that horse too.

But the gear does make a difference in straight up numbers. You do more damage to lower tier geared and take less damage from lower tiered geared players. Period. Indisputable.

In fact the whole paradigm of SWTOR pvp right now is that; If you have put in the time to get the gear you DESERVE to do more damage and take less damage from players who have put in less time than you.

 

I think this is a terrible reward system for PVP. It affects all players negatively.

 

Let me buy the PVP gear instead of grinding for PVP gear, and then give rewards for time spent playing PVP that are less disparate than the indisputable advantage that comes from wearing top tier gear.

Right now my only real reward for time spent is just a title. I would prefer bonuses other than gear that give advantages to a higher valor player (PvP skill tree's, gear shells with unique set bonuses, optimization options not available at lower valor levels, unique mounts, unique dyes, unique pets, the list goes on). In PVP the gear disparity should NOT be my carrot.

Also, please, I am aware that Bolster is supposed to be alleviating that problem. My personal opinion is that it is somewhat effective, but not as effective as I want it to be. For bolster to really work it should give 100% parity in gear. But the Bolster system is demonstrably buggy and exploitable.

Simplify things for me as a paying customer. You don't have to change your system at all, just put the PVP gear on the Cartel market. Hopefully in the future you can implement better PVP reward systems.

 

And for all the folks flaming:

 

Main: Trevalion (Commando)

55 Alts: Deathticle (Shadow), Hightower (Sentinel), Octaire (Guardian)

30-54 Alts: Trevalion (Scoundrel), Epica (Sage), DarkOrb (Gunslinger), Treva'tiger (powertech), ...

Server: Harbinger

Black-Ball legacy

 

NO

 

Just wear the tier 1 on your alts and grind ranked on your main. You don't need ranked gear to be competitive. The differences between the two tiers are minor enough that its hardly even an advantage, especially since bolster does apply to pvp gear as well (especially the weapons.) So the jump to ranked isn't even that big of a jump and definitely not worth grinding for on alts.

 

What you're suggesting under the current system IS 100% PAY TO WIN. EA/BW has screwed over the pvp community enough already in the past year. The pvp community is so small now that the worst thing they could do is piss off the last remaining pvpers with such a system put into place. Regs might still be somewhat a thing, but you can completely forget about ranked pvp. People think its dead now? You wont see anyone queue for it with a pay 2 win system.

 

Oh, and for the record, MWO is the epitome of p2w games. There are very few games that are worse than that.

 

Edit:

For the record, I personally feel a pvp stat is becoming outdated, but the majority of pvpers want the gear grind. It gives them something to do. Case in point, FFXIV:ARR has removed pvp gear in their new pvp mode frontlines. You can still wear it, but the pvp stat moral has no impact in the zone and all gear item levels are synced to level 80. There is a protest frontlines thread on their forums, a good 100 pages long.

 

When frontlines launched, between the trolls and the protesters, the match would never start because the queue would pop, then people would leave the queue. Part of the issue was the terrible queue system that was finally fixed where the match would start even if a single player declined the queue, but even then, there was matches of players in pvp gear just standing around doing nothing.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Raansu

[kissingaiur]

If you are suggesting buying pvp gear with cartel coins might as well do it for raiding gear as well.

It would be game breaking and would take all value away from the gear.

Edited July 22, 2014 by kissingaiur

[avinoamb]

i have always wondered who are the people that play all this weird a s s pay to win korean MMOs,good to finally meet you op:csw_jabba:

 

you didn`t invented the wheel this pay to win model have been done over and over in many (bad) games and failed.

it failed because it kills any sense of achievement,any progression and any competitive aspect in a game.

even if you implement this model in a very restrict narrow part of the game it will and for sure expand and consume the game over time,like it did many many games before.

 

but i wouldn't be surprised if EAware have it on the planning board for the future i mean there must be a few bad ideas they didnt unleashed on us from release to now.

 

so who knows you might get your wish at the end.

[JediMasterSLC]

You know what, I've had a change of heart. Yeah the customer is always right and we're paying for this game, so we SHOULD be able to buy as many shortcuts to progression as possible. We should be able to buy rating, because I am a paying customer who is entitled to those SUPER AWESOME ranked rewards. When I /duel someone in outlaws den, I should have the option to buy more stats for that duel to give me a better chance of winning- the more money put in, the bigger the stat bonus. I am PAYING for this game after all. Edited July 22, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[AoDay]

If that isn't pay to win, nothing is. What the actual ****.

 

Anyway, you're in a double bind. Either

 

A) PvP gear isn't that big of an advantage ("The tier of the armor set you have doesn't guarantee you victory"), and you should stop complaining.

 

or

 

B) It does provide a substantive advantage- therefore, being able to skip the gear grind via real money IS pay to win.

 

^ +1. OP is indeed contradicting himself.

 

If you pay for gear then you are effectively reducing the amount of playtime, which in turn lowers usage rates making it harder to sell additional cosmetics and reducing monthly subscription.

 

You also didn't take advantage of the Warzone event, as I was able to full geared a number of alts to full Brut within that time span.

 

Also the gap between Min/Max Obroan and Brut is relatively minor, while being easy to get so if you don't even have the will to grind that, then I'm pretty sure BW giving you pvp gear won't help you at all.

[fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg]

How is it equal access if you have to pay real money to gear your toons? What if I don't want to pay $20 each for my 9 55s? If you really don't like the gear grind, why not just advocate for a no-gear system?

 

Well if you don't want to pay 20 bucks then you should get to the grinding:p'

[Berekvam]

I play for 1 hour a night, sometimes 1.5 hours during the week. Some weekends I get the opportunity to play, some I don't. This is my downtime between work and my other activities. That being said, I can gear an alt in 3 weeks. 3 weeks!! Min/Max no, top tier no. Able to hold his own and be effective in a reg WZ, yes. It took me 4 weeks to min/max my main when the new tier of gear came out. This is not a grind, I repeat this is not a grind.

 

This guy is talking about 3 level 55 toons that he couldn't get geared in a year. Seriously?

 

You are suggesting BW make money so that people don't have to put in a 3 week grind? Yup, pay to win is written all over it.

[Trevalion]

Why does everyone feel like gear == progression in PVP?

I mean, I can understand that for PVE since gear is a defacto gateway to content. You cannot get the rewards of completing a nightmare mode operation if your gear gates you from progressing. You have to start with lower content that you can complete and work your way up. That is progression.

 

The same is NOT true for PVP.

All the warzones are the same from the moment you start queing, till you get tired of it and do something else.

All the rewards are the same in warzones, there is no achievement or progression.

 

I can queue a warzone all day long in any gear or naked or whatever. The rewards are for queuing and to a lesser extent, contributing. Now playing PVP against someone who has a huge stat difference is painful (sometimes) but nothing about the reward for PVP, or doing the PVP changes as I gear up, it just becomes less painful.

 

Reward in PVP should be (sarcastically mentioned by a previous poster) ranking on a ladder because it is the only thing that uniquely identifies player gains by doing PVP. Using gear as a progression meter stick for PVP is asinine.

Everyone explaining how they got their gear so fast playing casually is really just proving that point. Gaining gear in PVP has no meaning except leveling the playing field against other people who have gear, and gaining an advantage over people who don't have gear. I have spent enough time on both sides of that divide to recognize it as obfuscation. The real value of playing PVP is having a good time. For me personally, the best times are close games, nail biters when it can go either way and a spectacular play gives the win. Why does the system gate having a good time on how much time you have spent "paying dues" by letting other people who have more time logged have a straight up stats advantage?

 

Well obviously bolster is designed to alleviate that problem, and it mostly works, see all the testimonials about how min/maxed 2nd tier is close enough to 1st tier that you can compete because of bolster.

 

So if bolster is already working and other players can obviously "gear up" fast enough that they dont have a problem, what is the issue with buying PVP sets for money? It doesn't change anything about the PVP at all. Its not really a valid meter for progression, its just an artificial gateway that doesnt even have the same validity as PVE gear progression.

 

Whatever.

[sirullrich]

To the OP I need you to reread all of your posts so far. You will find that you contradict yourself in almost every one of them. Most of the players who PVP DO NOT KNOW HOW TO GEAR THEMSELVES PROPERLY. (just my imo) Being able to buy one piece at a time will help these new players how to figure out how to gear properly. At least it helped me.

 

I only play 1-2 hours a night if I'm lucky, but within the 2 hours of play. You can get around 6 matches. (15 MINUTE MATCHES 5 MIN WAIT TIME FOR Q). You can buy 1-2 pieces daily and with 14 slots you can gear up in less than 2 weeks. 2 WEEKS BRO!!!! Especially cuz the last few weeks have been double coms therefore in less than one week you could gear one toon. In your post you have played this game for a long time and if you pvp as much as you say you do in your 1-2hour span then you should've been able to gear at least 3 toons from the EVENT. Also with these 3 toons you can transfer legacy gear basically giving you 6 toons. I DONT SEE THE PROBLEM

[sirullrich]

"the real value of pvp is having fun" WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP! If it was only for fun you wouldn't need GEAR! If it was only for fun then there would be no winners and losers. If it was ONLY FOR FUN YOU WOULD NOT HAVE COME TO THE FORUMS TO POST ANYTHING. You would be having fun regardless of your gear because you know what PVP IS SUPPOSE TO BE FUN. The fun thing about PVP IS WINNING! You may not believe it, but A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE TO EARN WHAT THEY GET. They don't need money to buy it for them.

 

I will also let you know this if SWTOR allowed people to buy PVP gear with cartel coins you don't think that would affect the PVER'S as well. Who do you think makes my mk-9 kits and endgame augments that I buy. What about my grenades. I consider all of these items to be pvp gear as well.

[Cordorian]

there was a point where i found me spending wz comms on pets and mounts.......

 

Srsly, play Wildstar and you think the gearing system in this game is perfect. First tier is definitely manageable within a week of pvping casually. Gear has some impact but it is so moderate such that you dont need brutalizer. You dont actually have to reach a rating cap to buy better (it is massively fun to destroyed by players that just started earlier, farmed rating massively and now are having their little fun with you, yeah that is what happened in WS).

 

and heck, i pretty sure there is still is some combination of leveling blues or greens that BiS due to bolster.

In fact the only thing that really need grinding in this game are augments, as somebody else said. They quite expensive and out side the pvp event the monetary rewards are that great for pvp forcing you to do the most horrible content this game has... daily and weekly areas.

 

But mostly gear is an absolute non issue. I back to this game for like 3 weeks and non of the 6 chars i actively play has anything less than full obroan, 2 close to full brutalizer, and currently i usually only play 2-3 hours per evening.

 

I say, if it is too much for you to do pvp dailies and weeklies for one week, (that is like 6 matches per evening, if you are unlucky, or bad) and all this is so horribly painful, i really wonder why you pvp at all. Since after you have your gear what do you do? Yes the same, you do your dailies and weeklies.

And that brings back to the beginning.... soon i will be buying mounts and pets again....give me something useful to buy please (no and plz no new gear tier just now)

[Waldorf]

I cant spend enough hours in game to grind ranked in order to obtain and min/max the current top tier set across all my alts. The time required is unreasonable.

 

And I can't put in the effort needed to become a millionaire. Do I go around fussing that money is unreasonably hard to come by? NO...

Be happy you have enough time to grind the gear on ONE toon, some people can't even pull that off.

 

What the hell is wrong with this new generation of gamers?..Asking for free hand outs and crying for pay to win. Screw you !