Class Changes that should also be in 2.7

[Zoom_VI]

They don't need a buff to their defensive abilities. Powertechs have less defensives but more passive mitigation. They could use a small help on the control front but that is it. The most balanced thing about the classes right now is the tank balance, with only very slight variations in performance. This is impressive considering the wildly varying skills that they have. Any buffs to a tanks survivability will severely affect the balance as it is and place the class easily in front of the rest. In addition if explosive fuel and oil slick were all damage reduction cooldowns, then you could have a very long uptime on at least one DR move.

 

No the tank spec is balanced but tanks as a whole are underpowered

[frankiejo]

1.) Concealment's damage is perfectly fine as is right now.

 

2.) No one is losing half their HP in a single shot. Quit exaggerating.

 

No it isn't, Concealed strike should auto-crit, then it would be.

[Venjirai]

No the tank spec is balanced but tanks as a whole are underpowered

 

That's not true, the tank class in arenas is in a very good state, try queuing with 3 dps against a tank, you will lose against an equally good team.

Furthermore without defensive cooldowns vanguard tanks die too easily to focus fire.

Take Pyro, Lethality and Combat for example, all the passive migration is useless against those specs.

[ekolan]

just curious as to why operative were left off your thread.

[laiboch]

I like your idea's they are very interesting..

 

 

The patch notes I would love to see is "Removed Alacrity from the game till we can figure out a way to actually make it worth having"

[Zoom_VI]

That's not true, the tank class in arenas is in a very good state, try queuing with 3 dps against a tank, you will lose against an equally good team.

Furthermore without defensive cooldowns vanguard tanks die too easily to focus fire.

Take Pyro, Lethality and Combat for example, all the passive migration is useless against those specs.

 

You didn't read that link very well.

[Venjirai]

I like your idea's they are very interesting..

 

 

The patch notes I would love to see is "Removed Alacrity from the game till we can figure out a way to actually make it worth having"

 

Those are just class changes, otherwise I would have things like, *implement cross server queues on there^^.

[Venjirai]

just curious as to why operative were left off your thread.

 

 

The reason why there are no scoundrel/ops changes is that the changes they have coming for them in 2.7 are rather big and we have to see how that turns out.

 

For example, with shield probe absorbing more and on a 20 second cooldown it's like the scoundrel's version of the sorcerer's bubble.

Scrapper will have his double roll every 10 seconds which does not cost any energy and with a chance to resist attacks (Will sure be more annoying than the sniper roll).

Lethality will have shield probe on a 14 second cooldown while even absorbing more damage.

Also smash won't be an issue anymore, so the lack of aoe reduction is not a problem.

 

 

5chars

Edited March 28, 2014 by Venjirai

[jack__]

No the tank spec is balanced but tanks as a whole are underpowered

 

Whilst I have respect for KBN and the his theorycrafting models, tanks aren't underpowered for pvp, it is just they are less survivable then they are in PvE. And from what I have seen of the game (and I have seen alot) this is by design. In a PvP environment every class performs worse as a whole, all classes have to deal with cc, dps have to deal with defensives, meaning that dps output is less.

Healers and ranged classes have to deal with ability pushback and interrupts. Healers also have to deal with trauma.

Tanks have to deal with the mechanics that are described in the post that you linked.

 

Compared to PvE tanks are performing worse. Compared to the other roles you can play, tanks are fine because every other role balanced around being worse in PvP. If tanks were so bad, then why would people take them into PvP? The reason, they aren't that bad. Numerical analysis is one thing, but actual PvP experience is another thing.

[ekolan]

The reason why there are no scoundrel/ops changes is that the changes they have coming for them in 2.7 are rather big and we have to see how that turns out.

 

For example, with shield probe absorbing more and on a 20 second cooldown it's like the scoundrel's version of the sorcerer's bubble.

Scrapper will have his double roll every 10 seconds which does not cost any energy and with a chance to resist attacks (Will sure be more annoying than the sniper roll).

Lethality will have shield probe on a 14 second cooldown while even absorbing more damage.

Also smash won't be an issue anymore, so the lack of aoe reduction is not a problem.

 

As far as a scrapper goes the change to shield probe will do very little in terms of survivability. 99% of the time our 2 DCD's(evasion and disapear) have to be tied together in order to be effective. So basically all we're looking at is a boost to shield probe and the loss of a knockdown.

 

This isnt the case for lethality, lethality got a HUGE boost with the shield change and roll change..

If you roll > heal > roll > you will be able to use your heal again before losing the heal proc, So basically we get 2 free heals every 10 seconds.. This is on top of what look like to be a 6-7k shield probe with set bonus/augmented shields. The only change i would like to see for lethality is to boost the 60% shiv proc to 100%.. I see nothing wrong with getting 2 culls every 6 sec considering that after the opener(if its achieved) it is our only way of generating TA.

 

Something i always thought that would help tone down healing and help with kiting for all operatives is to move the healing bonus in middle tree and make it a 3 point talent and put the stealh and speed increase a 2 pt talent and on the first tier. just a thought on that though.

[TonyDragonflame]

Class changes in 2.7?

 

No.

[Vodrin]

No the tank spec is balanced but tanks as a whole are underpowered

 

The problem with the analysis you quoted is that it is looking only at survivability and only with tank gear. Funny thing is you lose only around 5-10% of your survivability in PvP by switching to DPS gear, and you can achieve non-burst DPS that is within around 5% of most DPS classes making tanks quite strong when you factor in taunts and guard.

 

As long as a team has a healer it will always be stronger by substituting one tank for a DPS (assuming a 4 man or 8 man group that is all DPS and healers). That will always be true unless that tank is using defensive gear and is not very good at putting out damage.

[Zoom_VI]

The problem with the analysis you quoted is that it is looking only at survivability and only with tank gear. Funny thing is you lose only around 5-10% of your survivability in PvP by switching to DPS gear, and you can achieve non-burst DPS that is within around 5% of most DPS classes making tanks quite strong when you factor in taunts and guard.

 

The whole purpose of that thread was looking at why are tank hybrids so popular, and the answer was that in this game a full tank is useless. One healing is factored in a full tank is 10% more survivable than a combat sentinel. If it was not for guard, nobody would ever take a tank for anything pvp related.

[Nightkin]

I fear that until the devs realise that merc/commandos need a disengage retreat ability they will never, ever be viable as dps, and until they realise that long hardcasts will never allow them to heal properly, this class will never be viable for arenas.

 

So, a longer lasting hot then kolto shell or kolto pod OR less reliance on casts for heals (second option would be best) and a jump away/disengage retreat ability is badly needed. I dunno about other players but i feel mercs might actually be fine given those two changes.

[Raansu]

I fear that until the devs realise that merc/commandos need a disengage retreat ability they will never, ever be viable as dps, and until they realise that long hardcasts will never allow them to heal properly, this class will never be viable for arenas.

 

So, a longer lasting hot then kolto shell or kolto pod OR less reliance on casts for heals (second option would be best) and a jump away/disengage retreat ability is badly needed. I dunno about other players but i feel mercs might actually be fine given those two changes.

 

Its called hold the line...

[Nightkin]

Its called hold the line...

No it's most certainly not

[TheSupaCoopa]

I fear that until the devs realise that merc/commandos need a disengage retreat ability they will never, ever be viable as dps, and until they realise that long hardcasts will never allow them to heal properly, this class will never be viable for arenas.

 

So, a longer lasting hot then kolto shell or kolto pod OR less reliance on casts for heals (second option would be best) and a jump away/disengage retreat ability is badly needed. I dunno about other players but i feel mercs might actually be fine given those two changes.

 

Don't worry, the commando rep is working on it.

[Raansu]

No it's most certainly not

 

Yes it is lmao.

[Nightkin]

Yes it is lmao.

Lets just save some time and agree that you are wrong

If we had enough good defences then we would do fine in arena already, wich we dont. I dont see how anyone can be so blind to argue that Hold the Line is the same as a quick escape from heavy focus. As it stands its a worse variant of the sorc healer skill fadeout, how can you not see this?

[Raansu]

Lets just save some time and agree that you are wrong

If we had enough good defences then we would do fine in arena already, wich we dont. I dont see how anyone can be so blind to argue that Hold the Line is the same as a quick escape from heavy focus. As it stands its a worse variant of the sorc healer skill fadeout, how can you not see this?

 

I'm sorry, I can't see anything, I'm too busy laughing at you.

[Nightkin]

I'm sorry, I can't see anything, I'm too busy laughing at you.

Well, if you laugh at mercs not being viable, cause it kinda sounds like you are....then i have nothing more to say to you. Sit in your corner and laugh, it's due to ignorance and nothing else.

[Suryi]

I fear that until the devs realise that merc/commandos need a disengage retreat ability they will never, ever be viable as dps, and until they realise that long hardcasts will never allow them to heal properly, this class will never be viable for arenas.

 

So, a longer lasting hot then kolto shell or kolto pod OR less reliance on casts for heals (second option would be best) and a jump away/disengage retreat ability is badly needed. I dunno about other players but i feel mercs might actually be fine given those two changes.

 

In my honest opinion, healing merc is fine the way it is at the moment. I'd like to see supercharge do something else besides just some dull passive bonuses, but I think we're very very far from being unviable as healers in group ranked.

 

Agreed on dps needing that disengage, but I think it might be a bit sick for healers, especially if you couple it with less reliance on casts.

[Nightkin]

In my honest opinion, healing merc is fine the way it is at the moment. I'd like to see supercharge do something else besides just some dull passive bonuses, but I think we're very very far from being unviable as healers in group ranked.

 

Agreed on dps needing that disengage, but I think it might be a bit sick for healers, especially if you couple it with less reliance on casts.

"Fine" is in my thoughts as good as or as viable as the best pvp healing class. Otherwise its not fine, it is a subpar option.

Now i know you are probably one of the worlds best commando healers and i respect your opinion, but i do not share it.

Commandos are not on the same viability level as a operative is under pressure. I also agree about supercharge, it should be something spectacular, not just a passive % increase of such low numbers as it is.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Nightkin

[Lexlo]

Sage/Sorcerers

• Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation now does not respect the gcd and neither causes one.
  

 

Too much free power given to an ability that costs nothing to use and has no downsides besides a GCD use. I can't agree with this. Especially when they can use god-bubble at any time.

 

Seer/Corruption

• Salvation/Revivification now gives all targets who are in the area upon activation a HoT for 10 seconds which heals 50% of the maximum heal. Targets who stay in the area for up to 10 seconds also get the other 50% of the heal.
  With the upcoming nerf to Smash, there will be very little AOE threat in the game to counter the healing potential of this. Sorcs/Sages will create healing "nests" that players will never leave. Unless I'm misreading this entirely...
   
  
• After activating Healing Trance/Innervate your next Deliverance/Dark Infusion is immune to interrupts (15 sec cd)
  

 

I think this is the wrong approach. We shouldn't remove counterplay on it to make it usable: We should just add more incentive toward using it. Cast times are there to provide an enemy a choice between stopping the current action vs. the possibility of stopping a more important action. Weighing which abilities to interrupt is a good interaction between players. Especially when the Sorcerer uses "bait casts".

 

I would rather Dark Infusion do something cooler than just be another heal. It only exists as a longer, albeit more potent "Dark Heal" with a smaller force cost. Let's make it better.

 

How about a box in the healing tree that does something like "hitting an ally with Dark Infusion removes the Lockout Debuff on Static Barrier"? Would this be too much?

 

 

Vanguard/Powertech

Tactics/Advanced Prototype

 

• Battlefield Training/Pneumatic Boots now additionally increases High Impact Bolt/Rail Shot damage by 10%.
  

 

I don't know if I like a flat rail shot damage increase. AP is riddled with boring passives that are always just "there".

 

How about we add something like this:

+movement speed bonus (as it is now)

+using a shoulder mounted rocket provides the player with a stacking buff. The buff increases the damage of your next railshot by 2% per application.

 

This further emphasizes the use of your abilities to increase your power, without providing the player TOO MUCH passive power that is usable at all times. It's probably too much damage for one ability, but idk...I feel like AP needs more interaction with their tree instead of just putting points into ALWAYS ON talents.

 

Responses in obnoxious green.

[Suryi]

"Fine" is in my thoughts as good as or as viable as the best pvp healing class. Otherwise its not fine, it is a subpar option.

Now i know you are probably one of the worlds best commando healers and i respect your opinion, but i do not share it.

Commandos are not on the same viability level as a operative is under pressure. I also agree about supercharge, it should be something spectacular, not just a passive % increase of such low numbers as it is.

 

Maybe we're subpar under that specific context that you mentioned, but we excel in other areas. I don't think we should all (healers) be indistinguishably similar under all aspects, or not even in the one aspect that would seem to be the most relevant in arenas which is pressure healing. We have ways to deal with pressure that scoundrels don't (transcendence + hold the line is magnificent), we have incredibly superior firepower (mortar volley >> any dps a scoundrel can pull and it's also 30m range) when it comes to hard switches and the list can go on.

 

As long as we're not played like a scoundrel, or people get it out of their heads that mando doesn't fill the niche a scoundrel fills (in healing ofc), we're "fine" as in competitive. We can bring things that scoundrels dream of and the tools we can provide have to be exploited in order for a mando healer to work.

 

Sorry for derailing thread xd