A perfect example of the ability delay

[samdbtto]

Productive, constructive discourse vs flaming argumentation.

 

As a communicator, you are responsible for not just the message you deliver, but also how others interpret your message. If you want others to argue with you, by all means, flame on.

 

If you actually want to potentially change someone else's opinion, you're doing it wrong. People respond to hostility with either hostility or indifference and ridicule.

 

Not exactly who this is directed at, myself or whom I'm defending.

[MaceTowani]

First, you can't use a channeling ability while in the air. You're moving, and you can't use channeling abilities while moving.

 

That auto-cancel when you try to use a channeling ability immediately after landing from a jump? That's because there is an intentional stun mechanic involved with landing. The game is designed such that jumping around like an idiot penalizes you. There's no reason to jump unless you're trying to get over some physical obstacle or are doing an instant-cast spinshot maneuver. Do note that this also does not trigger the GCD, so you can still use the ability the moment that stun period is over.

 

Some animations have set-up periods during which they do no damage. The most noteworthy example is the Trooper's Mortar Volley, which spends a full 1.6 seconds doing absolutely nothing, and fires mortars (and damages) more than a second after the channeling period ends. This is not a syncing issue, that's just how the ability is. It's a very powerful ability and it provides an at-a-glance indicator (along with the enormous glowing Republic logo) that a guy is revving this up, even if you don't currently have him targeted to see his cast bar. Additionally, even though this animation completes long after the channeling period ends, you can still perform additional actions like moving or using other abilities (even other channeled ones!) without losing out on that third shot. Not a bug.

 

As for WoW's supposed perfect controls and respones: they've had years to get this right, and it wasn't all roses at the beginning. I don't think you were around for the launch months, or perhaps your recollection of it is not as complete and unbiased as you'd like to think, but there were plenty of early issues with WoW's controls and responsiveness. Here's a line you can read from every third patch note even now: "Fixed an issue with Magic Missiles performing incorrectly."

 

This.

[Serpenttt]

best post you've seen on these forums is a post complaining about people who complain?

 

Sadly, yes.

[Arkimor]

Agree with OP. Delay is killing combat.

[SuperomegaOP]

i posted this crap and other issues about combat way too many times during beta and VERY few of them actually got handled...

 

i even got infractions because i would post the issues daily and 1 of the regular CMs caught

on... i **** you not i was told in my mailbox thing that these issues are noted and will be fixed in due time

 

this was like 3 months ago

 

herp derp bioware herp derp

Edited December 25, 2011 by SuperomegaOP

[TheIcefyre]

Bumping this, this is one really important issue damn. Im surprised there is not mods in here. Keep this at the top. Edited December 25, 2011 by TheIcefyre

[JSykes]

Clearly, any issue that exists past the 72 hour mark means the game will fail.

 

Clearly a issue that hasn't been fixed since it was first majorly reported back in May/June of this year is a bit more then 72 hours. (P.S games been live for almost 2 weeks now).

[Xatoen]

Another game breaking issue:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGaWuvWWf8s

[Zironic]

It's pretty interesting how this appears to be the exact opposite of how the WoW Client-Server sync worked in Vanilla/TBC.

 

The way it worked back then was like this:

 

 

0ms, ability is clicked, casting animation starts <<<< 100ms, server gets click, 1.5s timer starts <<< 200 ms, client gets confirmation, 1.5s spell bar starts<<< 15100ms, server finishes 1.5 sec cast <<< 15200ms client finishes 15200ms cast.

 

This meant that even if you cancelled the cast before it was done, you'd still successfully cast the spell because the server was done before you. Some people used this behaviour to increase their DPS by consistently cancelling their spell and casting a new spell 0.2s before their casting bar finished, later Blizzard just implemented a server-side ability queue to deal with it.

 

 

Anyhow, what appears to be happening here is that the client finishes before the server? Wierd stuff.

[Hypernetic]

It's pretty interesting how this appears to be the exact opposite of how the WoW Client-Server sync worked in Vanilla/TBC.

 

The way it worked back then was like this:

 

 

0ms, ability is clicked, casting animation starts <<<< 100ms, server gets click, 1.5s timer starts <<< 200 ms, client gets confirmation, 1.5s spell bar starts<<< 15100ms, server finishes 1.5 sec cast <<< 15200ms client finishes 15200ms cast.

 

This meant that even if you cancelled the cast before it was done, you'd still successfully cast the spell because the server was done before you. Some people used this behaviour to increase their DPS by consistently cancelling their spell and casting a new spell 0.2s before their casting bar finished, later Blizzard just implemented a server-side ability queue to deal with it.

 

 

Anyhow, what appears to be happening here is that the client finishes before the server? Wierd stuff.

 

That is still how it works in WoW. Let's say you are a shaman casting lightning bolt. If you spam the button over 100 casts you will probably get a few extra casts in over someone who is waiting for the cast to finish before pressing the button again (depending on latency).

 

This way makes sense, ToR's way does NOT. It is exactly what you said, the client finishes before the server. It makes the whole game feel sluggish. Instead of finishing a channel and moving or casting another spell, you have to sit there for an extra half second to make sure the last tick gets off.

 

It even works this way with instant cast spells/abilities. When I use my assassinate (execute) on someone the damage won't happen until well after the animation is finished, I can literally be 20+ meters away from them then damage goes off if I am using force speed.

 

It makes me feel like having a good reaction time is much less rewarded.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Hypernetic

[Zironic]

That is still how it works in WoW. Let's say you are a shaman casting lightning bolt. If you spam the button over 100 casts you will probably get a few extra casts in over someone who is waiting for the cast to finish before pressing the button again (depending on latency).

Well yeh, point was that you don't need to use /cancelcast macros anymore since they removed the client side 'you're already casting' check. Back when I played WoW I had a habit of always starting to walk 200ms before my 'mount' cast was finished since it's funny to watch your character walk 3 feet before suddenly ending up on the mount.

 

This way makes sense, ToR's way does NOT. It is exactly what you said, the client finishes before the server. It makes the whole game feel sluggish. Instead of finishing a channel and moving or casting another spell, you have to sit there for an extra half second to make sure the last tick gets off.

 

It even works this way with instant cast spells/abilities. When I use my assassinate (execute) on someone the damage won't happen until well after the animation is finished, I can literally be 20+ meters away from them then damage goes off if I am using force speed.

 

It makes me feel like having a good reaction time is much less rewarded.

Yeh, I just can't figure out how they ended up that way though. Are they for some reason trying to sync the client and server and doing it really really badly?

[Xcore]

This thread should stay on Page1 until we hear concrete answer or acknowledgement from Bioware.

[Emucruxes]

This thread should stay on Page1 until we hear concrete answer or acknowledgement from Bioware.

 

It's our responsibility to keep it there until this bad is fixed.

[Hypernetic]

Well yeh, point was that you don't need to use /cancelcast macros anymore since they removed the client side 'you're already casting' check. Back when I played WoW I had a habit of always starting to walk 200ms before my 'mount' cast was finished since it's funny to watch your character walk 3 feet before suddenly ending up on the mount.

 

 

Yeh, I just can't figure out how they ended up that way though. Are they for some reason trying to sync the client and server and doing it really really badly?

 

Who knows?

 

I also had that habit in WoW with mounts and because of that I end up remounting 5 times in ToR before I actually get on my mount.

[KingHenryXXi]

Not going to read everything but bumping this post, because it IS a gamebreaking issue no matter WHAT you do in this game, whether its PvP, PvE, or collect Pokemon pets to battle. Its something that should be fixed or addressed immediately.

 

Anyone who says this is a problem for PvP 'elitists' only is horribly misinformed.

[Draemos]

Seems like an engine limitation. I'm not sure if they will be able to fix it. It's unfortunate, because the ability delay is a really huge issue when it comes to making the game feel and play smooth, which is arguably the most important aspect of an MMO.

[Zironic]

Seems like an engine limitation. I'm not sure if they will be able to fix it. It's unfortunate, because the ability delay is a really huge issue when it comes to making the game feel and play smooth, which is arguably the most important aspect of an MMO.

 

It is THE most important feature of ANY SOFTWARE. Having the software feel sluggish is the kind of thing that builds up frustration over time until you just ragequit.

 

They can probably fix it, though I suspect the issues come from their decision to have damage be applied when the animation 'hits' which made them try to sync the clients and server, and then failed at it.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Zironic

[Xcore]

Not going to read everything but bumping this post, because it IS a gamebreaking issue no matter WHAT you do in this game, whether its PvP, PvE, or collect Pokemon pets to battle. Its something that should be fixed or addressed immediately.

 

Anyone who says this is a problem for PvP 'elitists' only is horribly misinformed.

 

I could quote many many posts in this thread for emphasis but I'll start here... well said sir.

[yononan]

First, you can't use a channeling ability while in the air. You're moving, and you can't use channeling abilities while moving.

 

That auto-cancel when you try to use a channeling ability immediately after landing from a jump? That's because there is an intentional stun mechanic involved with landing. The game is designed such that jumping around like an idiot penalizes you. There's no reason to jump unless you're trying to get over some physical obstacle or are doing an instant-cast spinshot maneuver. Do note that this also does not trigger the GCD, so you can still use the ability the moment that stun period is over.

 

Some animations have set-up periods during which they do no damage. The most noteworthy example is the Trooper's Mortar Volley, which spends a full 1.6 seconds doing absolutely nothing, and fires mortars (and damages) more than a second after the channeling period ends. This is not a syncing issue, that's just how the ability is. It's a very powerful ability and it provides an at-a-glance indicator (along with the enormous glowing Republic logo) that a guy is revving this up, even if you don't currently have him targeted to see his cast bar. Additionally, even though this animation completes long after the channeling period ends, you can still perform additional actions like moving or using other abilities (even other channeled ones!) without losing out on that third shot. Not a bug.

 

As for WoW's supposed perfect controls and respones: they've had years to get this right, and it wasn't all roses at the beginning. I don't think you were around for the launch months, or perhaps your recollection of it is not as complete and unbiased as you'd like to think, but there were plenty of early issues with WoW's controls and responsiveness. Here's a line you can read from every third patch note even now: "Fixed an issue with Magic Missiles performing incorrectly."

 

1. The autocancel on landing I guess you can explain as some kind of intentional mechanic which really does not feel smooth and "actiony" and instead feels very restrictive....

 

2. The animation bug I refer to is very specific. The animation will play, but the channel cast bar and actual spell do not go off...

 

This has a tendency to trick me sometimes, as I am looking at my toon's animations for cues...

 

3. I will have you know that my i7-2600k and 570gtx both overclocked to high heaven would like to have a word with your berlin wall....

[dronepilot]

Ability lag can be frustrating yep. My character got killed plenty of times because of the delay on me trying to use an ability that MIGHT of altered the result of the battle. In some cases where bosses were like on there last few bits of health, then I just need this ability to finish him off, oops - NO not playing. Lag = dead.

[Korrigan]

This is a BIG issue for any serious pvpers .... so yeah, actually it concerns a lot of people, despite what you may think!

It's not really an issue for PvP... since BOTH sides are affected by that supposed delay. PvP remains balanced.

[Zironic]

It's not really an issue for PvP... since BOTH sides are affected by that supposed delay. PvP remains balanced.

 

Believe it or not, but other factors are important for enjoyable PvP beyond balance. Like the fact that people enjoy skill being the deciding factor when it comes to who will win, not who lucked out with the ability lag.

 

If all we cared about was that PvP is balanced, we'd just replace all the Warzones with a giant die, and just let them watch it roll for 20 minutes. The side with the best total score would then win! Completely balanced!1!1!1oneone!1

Edited December 25, 2011 by Zironic

[Sternenkarte]

Frontpage!

[Sanicek]

The ability delay or however you want to call it is indeed extremely frustrating. The dismount after mounting has happened to me oh so many times already. Interrupt is always a hit or miss affair. Could go on, be we already have many pages here.

 

Another thing is the ability queue time, sorry, but 250ms steps are terrible, most of us want to set it to roughly the same ms value as latency. So obviously with 50ms latency no queue robs me of that and 250ms is too much. On the other hand, the combat is so terribly unresponsive that this does not matter much yet, but in case it gets up to (WOW) standard, this needs to be configurable at much smaller steps, precise slider like in WOW is nice option.

[SniperCT]

This probably explains why I hate healing in this game.

 

I don't notice the issue at all on any of my dps characters though, even my Sorc.

 

But trying to heal is like pulling teeth.

 

I feel like this game is the most responsive MMO since WoW. But I'm all for more responsiveness all around.

 

They're obviously aware of some issues if you look at the 1.0.1 PTS notes.