Please stop creating anti-premade threads

[AshlaBoga]

or we`re just a 2man or a 3man and we re locked out of ranked.......

 

This too!

[SwiftDuck]

get some friends and fight back with your own premade...MMORPG's are about playing WITH people, not by yourself.

[eartharioch]

Theres no skill, per se in this game . This game is GEARbased. We have expertise that further graviatites away from any SKILLS needed. U jus thave to repss the buttons in right order. Every skills has a comment that helps u understand in what order u need to press them. NO SKILLS needed per se.

 

And premades has HUGE advantage vs random teams.

 

Now if only I had PVP gear with the ability to underline my icons in red when I repss them in the wrong order...

[varietasplus]

And high correlation with things you mentioned of a premade group. LOL. No such thing. Premades are not made mostly by skilled, geared etc. people from my experience.

 

Then we must be on different servers. On Red Eclipse, whenever you see a premade, you can be sure they are very good players with PVP gear and the outcome of the match iss 90% certain.

 

I've seen no such thing. But I've beaten another team with few 2-3 premades when we had no healer - we just focused right, I've won huttball against team with healers when we had none - we played it damn well. And I could continue.

 

I can not believe you mention Hutball as an example, the only warzone you can easily win without a healer if you have a team forming a line or ball carriers with gap closers (guardians, scoundrel, vanguards, etc.). Seriously.

[Azzataky]

Then we must be on different servers. On Red Eclipse, whenever you see a premade, you can be sure they are very good players with PVP gear and the outcome of the match iss 90% certain.

 

 

 

I can not believe you mention Hutball as an example, the only warzone you can easily win without a healer if you have a team forming a line or ball carriers with gap closers (guardians, scoundrel, vanguards, etc.). Seriously.

 

I'm on ToFN. And in huttball there is very often need for a healer in rep team since the ball carier isn't throwing the ball at all.

[UncelSam]

Premades dont want change or more balanced WZs, they just want PUG SCHTOOOMPF!!!! Fascist style like the psychotic lil bully kids they are.

[Azzataky]

Premades dont want change or more balanced WZs, they just want PUG SCHTOOOMPF!!!! Fascist style like the psychotic lil bully kids they are.

 

Oh you little poor troll. You realize that I (fighting for premades) queue mostly solo for warzones? And I bet I ain't only one.

[PloGreen]

Premades dont want change or more balanced WZs, they just want PUG SCHTOOOMPF!!!! Fascist style like the psychotic lil bully kids they are.

 

Do you even know what a fascist is?

[TheSupaCoopa]

Not all premades use Voice Chat, or have the best team comps, or have augmented BiS gear. Some are just some friends who group up and play.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Every match should be a rated match. There should be no hiding from your own rating. (Though for "regs" you should be able to hide displaying it to others to avoid trolling around who's bad/isn't.)

 

That way everyone is forced into a ranked queue of sorts, rather than being able to avoid rating entirely, and the queue system can finally have sufficient population for matchmaking to occur. The premades who queue regs to rolfstomp pugs would find competition sooner or later as eventually the system would figure out which pugs could fight them on equal terms, new entrants to pvp would fight other inexperienced players (or bads) until they improved rather than instantly getting stomped in the ground and discouraged from continuing, and the game's PVP community would become much more sustainable.

 

The problem with ranked in SWTOR has always been small/insufficient population size, as no one was forced into ranked, and with only a handful of teams Qing the dominant team on a server just farmed everyone else until queues died.

[t-darko]

Hey, I did see all the usual suspects in the thread, so, well: 'a hirori-ote', here comes another one.

 

Pug--> bunch of randoms get together in true mmo spirit to do a WZ together against, hopefully, another bunch of randoms, who wanna do the same in true mmo spirit. If those others by 'chance' is a Premade(--->people who in true mmo spirit get together, and if they enter unranked, has a greater 'chance' to meet a bunch of randoms).

 

Now since a premade gets together(in true mmo spirit) pre entering the queue, while PUGs get together(in true mmo spirit) upon entering that same Queue, one could argue, by sheer deduction, that the group getting together, pre entering the queue, might have a slight advantage.

 

But do we have proof of that? -duno. But on the other side do we have proof that they don't??! has there been any empirical studies on the matter? And in that case, how objective are those?

 

I could also argue that the experience of SWToR PvP is entirely perceptual, considering time spent by the individual player in previous PvP games, and/or the time not spent in such games. Could we even find a correlation here I wonder?

 

But there is something a foot though, it have been known to be and happen, that while winning a huttballgame by 6 to nil the losing side got the most objective points. Most peculiar!? Premades? Well It has also been known that while you win one WZ on sheer OP ability with the winning side have had 300 kills between them and the losing just 20, barely. You can also lose the next WZ in the same manner, with that numbers against you, Most peculiar!?

Premades?! I tend to lean at that is the least of our problem, how ever annoying they are ... Though I do think they have an impact on the firstimers and their wish to pursue PvP gaming...

Edited January 2, 2014 by t-darko

[magi_melcior]

Of course matchmaking is the issue. But the simplest form of matchmaking is to separate pugs from premades since the game already is able to discriminate between them. There are other algorithms that would be more accurate. But Bioware seems unresponsive so people are asking for a bare minimum.

 

Well technically the game can discriminate between players queued as a group and players queued solo. While all premades are groups not all groups are premades, especially if we use the OPs definition of a premade (which I agree with btw). Some of the groups that queue for PvP (in fact a lot of them) aren't balanced (had a group of 4 Tanks from same guild more than once), aren't in BiS PvP gear (seen lots of "premades" running in PvE gear) and aren't actually that good.

 

You always know if you have actually faced a real good premade, as opposed to just the other team being generally better, as the quality of the team work and tactics is on another level from a good PuG. But many times you see 4 ppl from the same guild in a team it is just a casual group not a PuG stomping premade.

 

Remember while being stomped by a premade is never fun, it has simply become the default excuse for anyone who has just had their butt kicked in PvP, instead of saying "damn I sucked today" or "wow that guy was good" and then trying to improve they just cry "premade cheaters" and learn nothing at all. But it is a viscous circle, the more complain loudly about premades the more likely it is than when someone gets beaten in PvP they automatically blame a premade even if one wasn't there, which in turn leads to more loud complaining.

 

Separating group PvP from solo PvP might seem like the simplest solution to the premade issue, but I am not convinced it would work for 2 main reasons:

 

1. You would be punishing the casual groups by forcing them to queue for longer and then get facerolled by those same premades you do not want in the solo queue, for an MMO (a genre that emphasizes team play) punishing people for playing in a team just seems counter-intuitive.

 

2. While it may reduce the issue it won't stop it. Currently you can't queue a group of 8 for regular WZs but premades manage it by queue syncing. So what is to stop that 4 man premade all queuing solo but queue syncing, sure they might not always get into the same WZ but then all they'll do is quit and keep trying until they do, not really sure that is an improvement.

 

What is needed is an incentive for the decent teams to play ranked (that's what it is there fore), a weekly and daily would be start, a new unique gear only purchasable from comms earned in ranked play, cool titles, give most teams a reason to play ranked and they will, hell bring back 8v8 to ranked as well, pretty sure a lot of the teams want it back.

Edited January 2, 2014 by magi_melcior

[Cordorian]

Theres no skill, per se in this game . This game is GEARbased. We have expertise that further graviatites away from any SKILLS needed. U jus thave to repss the buttons in right order. Every skills has a comment that helps u understand in what order u need to press them. NO SKILLS needed per se.

 

And premades has HUGE advantage vs random teams.

Do you actually PVP? I mean really...

 

i think to anybody who PVPs it is pretty obvious that you don't have clue of how the game works.

If you think it was all about hitting buttons in a static optimal order in pvp and the gear you wear, no wonder when you get stomped by somebody that actually knows your class better than you and he can be naked even. But yes it is the premades fault.

 

again you can get stomped, but mostly it is because you have idiots in your group that make the classic mistakes.

you can lose badly even with a premade, if the PuG **** it up, it happenes more often than you think. Actually i like to premade because it decreases the risk of being with 7 other clueless players, that make the whole wzs pretty frustrating for me. I solo queue a lot, most of the time and i can't count the sheer amount of times i wish for brains.

I just add that it is way more fun, to play with other people and if it is just to get better at coordinating stuff. It is the same reason PVE can be fun, just getting things right working out how to improve as a group and bad jokes ofc. Do you want win? Of course, if you don't play to win you shouldnt pvp.

 

People don't quit the game because they lose some wzs, people quit the game because lack of content, or lack of interest after they got bored, because nothing really happens. Class balance is pressing as well, and the removal of 8v8 ranked surely was a mistake... x-server would help competitive pvp, but premades are imho not so much of an issue. win some lose some that is how it will be, and it depends mostly on who has the better pugs.

[UncelSam]

Do you actually PVP? I mean really...

 

i think to anybody who PVPs it is pretty obvious that you don't have clue of how the game works.

If you think it was all about hitting buttons in a static optimal order in pvp and the gear you wear, no wonder when you get stomped by somebody that actually knows your class better than you and he can be naked even. But yes it is the premades fault.

 

again you can get stomped, but mostly it is because you have idiots in your group that make the classic mistakes.

you can lose badly even with a premade, if the PuG **** it up, it happenes more often than you think. Actually i like to premade because it decreases the risk of being with 7 other clueless players, that make the whole wzs pretty frustrating for me. I solo queue a lot, most of the time and i can't count the sheer amount of times i wish for brains.

I just add that it is way more fun, to play with other people and if it is just to get better at coordinating stuff. It is the same reason PVE can be fun, just getting things right working out how to improve as a group and bad jokes ofc. Do you want win? Of course, if you don't play to win you shouldnt pvp.

 

People don't quit the game because they lose some wzs, people quit the game because lack of content, or lack of interest after they got bored, because nothing really happens. Class balance is pressing as well, and the removal of 8v8 ranked surely was a mistake... x-server would help competitive pvp, but premades are imho not so much of an issue. win some lose some that is how it will be, and it depends mostly on who has the better pugs.

 

So please describe where exactly the SKILL in this game is? Is it HOW u press your buttons? Is it hoe you make your toon run to left or right? Where exactly is the MAGIC SKILL in this game? I mean I can hit you anyhow u run in as long I can see you. And if you go for cover i follow you. Theres NO SKILLS needed in this game. In a FPS game like Battlefield or CounterStrike there is SKILLS needed, but not in this MMORPG, the SKILLS are counted into your toons EXPERTISE defensive and offensive BONUS, and those bonuese are real high 40-50%. So it wont matter how u press your buttons or how u run if I have HUGE EXPERTISE and you have zero, ill kill you anyway you move or press your buttons. NO SKILLS needed in a GEARbased game.

[magi_melcior]

So please describe where exactly the SKILL in this game is? Is it HOW u press your buttons? Is it hoe you make your toon run to left or right? Where exactly is the MAGIC SKILL in this game? I mean I can hit you anyhow u run in as long I can see you. And if you go for cover i follow you. Theres NO SKILLS needed in this game. In a FPS game like Battlefield or CounterStrike there is SKILLS needed, but not in this MMORPG, the SKILLS are counted into your toons EXPERTISE defensive and offensive BONUS, and those bonuese are real high 40-50%. So it wont matter how u press your buttons or how u run if I have HUGE EXPERTISE and you have zero, ill kill you anyway you move or press your buttons. NO SKILLS needed in a GEARbased game.

 

/facepalm

 

Actually this is quite funny, on one hand we have one anti-pvp troll (you now the guy with SWG in his user name and the referral trap signature) telling us how epically skilled PvP players are ,especially compared to the apparently unskilled PvE players. Then we have this guy telling us PvP in this game requires no skill other than spamming attacks all the time. Do you think you trolls could get together and decide which it is please

 

Having a huge gear advantage won't do you any good if that healer you are fighting keeps kiting you around and LOSing you because he has got skill.

 

A true fact of PvP is Skill > Gear.

Edited January 2, 2014 by magi_melcior

[Azzataky]

Do you actually PVP? I mean really...

 

People, including myself, asked UncelSam this question more than once, yet he seems to be avoiding it. The reason seems obvious, his only "PvP experience" is from forums.

[varietasplus]

So please describe where exactly the SKILL in this game is? Is it HOW u press your buttons? Is it hoe you make your toon run to left or right? Where exactly is the MAGIC SKILL in this game? I mean I can hit you anyhow u run in as long I can see you. And if you go for cover i follow you. Theres NO SKILLS needed in this game. In a FPS game like Battlefield or CounterStrike there is SKILLS needed, but not in this MMORPG, the SKILLS are counted into your toons EXPERTISE defensive and offensive BONUS, and those bonuese are real high 40-50%. So it wont matter how u press your buttons or how u run if I have HUGE EXPERTISE and you have zero, ill kill you anyway you move or press your buttons. NO SKILLS needed in a GEARbased game.

 

Okay, this is getting absurd now. If you believe this game requires no skill, then why are you playing it and most important of all, why does it matter if there are premades or not? If you think fighting against another player is the same as shooting at a training dummy, then I suggest you try duel against good players and you shall see whether there is skill required.

 

Your reasoning about expertise is totally out-of-date owing to bolster.

A good player in bolstered gear is going to defeat a bad player in PVP gear one-on-one.

It was the same with the Recruit gear.

 

Furthermore, when we say skill, we do not solely mean how you use your rotation or how you move your character.

Having a good warzone awereness and focusing on objectives is more important and the key to success.

Gear is the least important factor.

 

You may be playing on a different server, but on Red Eclipse there is huge difference between players regarding skill.

[UncelSam]

Okay, this is getting absurd now. If you believe this game requires no skill, then why are you playing it and most important of all, why does it matter if there are premades or not? If you think fighting against another player is the same as shooting at a training dummy, then I suggest you try duel against good players and you shall see whether there is skill required.

 

Your reasoning about expertise is totally out-of-date owing to bolster.

A good player in bolstered gear is going to defeat a bad player in PVP gear one-on-one.

It was the same with the Recruit gear.

 

Furthermore, when we say skill, we do not solely mean how you use your rotation or how you move your character.

Having a good warzone awereness and focusing on objectives is more important and the key to success.

Gear is the least important factor.

 

You may be playing on a different server, but on Red Eclipse there is huge difference between players regarding skill.

 

I have nver claimed this game to be based on SKILLS, and I Think its OK its baed on GEAR. I have no probs with that. but it seems those player who regard thevselves as top pvper are alos those who claim this game to be SKILLbased, lol. U see the Connection? LOL

 

GEARbased games that has pvp in a small boxed-in area with pre-made teams are very delicate when it comes to if you can handpick your team prior to the fight or not. Thats is since you cant re-adjust anything in the WZ nor call for backup. Maybe thats too hard for you to understand.

[Haystak]

I have nver claimed this game to be based on SKILLS, and I Think its OK its baed on GEAR. I have no probs with that. but it seems those player who regard thevselves as top pvper are alos those who claim this game to be SKILLbased, lol. U see the Connection? LOL

 

GEARbased games that has pvp in a small boxed-in area with pre-made teams are very delicate when it comes to if you can handpick your team prior to the fight or not. Thats is since you cant re-adjust anything in the WZ nor call for backup. Maybe thats too hard for you to understand.

 

Why havent you found a group to pvp with yet?

 

Not sure how it is on other server but The population of the pvp crowd on my server has receded to a point where I can regularly expect to be grouped witht he same people I played with in the last match. That being said, your crusade is too late Sam, you can create an entire page of premade threads, necro the oldest ones, and try to reply to every counter point with your dogma "but its not fair!!!!" but the simple truth is, even if your jihad on premades suceeds, those teams that cant que together will most likely get grouped together anyhow. Atleast in 2s and threes, which means your still at a disadvantage. Because of that stupid mental block you put in your head that "you cant group with other people".

 

Knowing your kind however, youll just blame it on que syncing. Enjoy your utopia in your head Sam thats the only place its ever going to exist.

 

I also solo que 90% of my matches, so the only reason i really want the premade option to stay is because the other 10% of the time I actually want to group with people.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Haystak

[UncelSam]

Why havent you found a group to pvp with yet?

 

The population of servers pvp crowd has receded to a point where I can regularly expect to be grouped witht he same people I played with in the last match, that being said, your crusade is too late Sam, you can create an entire page of premade threads, necro the oldest ones, and try to reply to every counter point with your dogma "but its not fair!!!!" but the simple truth is, even if your jihad on premades suceeds, the teams will most likely get grouped together anyhow, atleast in 2s and threes, which means your still at a disadvantage, because of that stupid mental block you put in your head that "you cant group with other people".

 

Enjoy your utopia in your head Sam thats the only place its ever going to exist.

 

U can also grow some balls and dare face other premades in ranked WZ. Or the premades scare you? U can face such challange? Maybe you should try some other game?

[Haystak]

U can also grow some balls and dare face other premades in ranked WZ. Or the premades scare you? U can face such challange? Maybe you should try some other game?

 

What challenge? You have two modes in ranked, stupid hard and stupid easy, your either facing newly formed crews, the super groups, or the alts of the super groups. Ranked is dead Fred. Not enough people, not enough balance. Next

 

I do like the challenge of using my scoundrel as something other than a healer. I dont top any charts, but I have fun. Lot more fun when I have friends who I can experience that with.....Do you have freinds Sam?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can be your freind

Edited January 2, 2014 by Haystak

[UncelSam]

What challenge? You have two modes in ranked, stupid hard and stupid easy, your either facing newly formed crews, the super groups, or the alts of the super groups. Ranked is dead Fred. Not enough people, not enough balance. Next

 

I do like the challenge of using my scoundrel as something other than a healer. I dont top any charts, but I have fun. Lot more fun when I have friends who I can experience that with.....Do you have freinds Sam?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can be your freind

 

I have enough friends to handle, dont need any more of them. And i have balls, which you lack since you like to stomp PUGs. You should take your premades and grow some balls and stay in ranked WZ

[Haystak]

I have enough friends to handle, dont need any more of them. And i have balls, which you lack since you like to stomp PUGs. You should take your premades and grow some balls and stay in ranked WZ

 

Why dont you group with those freinds then? You keep saying I lack balls, but you seem to lack brains. I mean how long is it going to take you to learn that your request isnt going to happen anytime soon. I mean, when was the last time you recieved anything to indicate your constant howling is even being heard? You have only ruined a forum in your quest.

 

I get it though, you think that by ressurecting every premade thread since inception, and filling up the first page of the forums that the devs will "have to listen". Your assuming that the devs even look into this forum anymore. Meanwhile the "were going to balance things" threads are 2 months old with no indication of what they are going to change anything.

 

The forums are chock full of rules and regulations violations, yet no ban hammer(except for the most blatant viiolations), these are perfect examples of devs/moderators not even doing basic violation scans.

 

Now Im not going to muster up to much emotion in this whole endevour, truth is the pvp forums are usually full of BS, and I could care less about them, but that would be tough. But since you seem to be so dedicated as to post a thousand times and achieve some form of interwebs fame, do you really think that by creating the cluster**** of a *****torm on these forums with your premade threads, that bioware in there infinite wisdom even read 1/1000000 of what is posted on these forums?

 

If you do, then your a bigger fool than I thought you were. I dont hate you, I pity you.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Haystak

[UncelSam]

Why dont you group with those freinds then? You keep saying I lack balls, but you seem to lack brains. I mean how long is it going to take you to learn that your request isnt going to happen anytime soon. I mean, when was the last time you recieved anything to indicate your constant howling is even being heard? You have only ruined a forum in your quest.

 

I get it though, you think that by ressurecting every premade thread since inception, and filling up the first page of the forums that the devs will "have to listen". Your assuming that the devs even look into this forum anymore. Meanwhile the "were going to balance things" threads are 2 months old with no indication of what they are going to change anything.

 

The forums are chock full of rules and regulations violations, yet no ban hammer(except for the most blatant viiolations), these are perfect examples of devs/moderators not even doing basic violation scans.

 

Now Im not going to muster up to much emotion in this whole endevour, truth is the pvp forums are usually full of BS, and I could care less about them, but that would be tough. But since you seem to be so dedicated as to post a thousand times and achieve some form of interwebs fame, do you really think that by creating the cluster**** of a *****torm on these forums with your premade threads, that bioware in there infinite wisdom even read 1/1000000 of what is posted on these forums?

 

If you do, then your a bigger fool than I thought you were. I dont hate you, I pity you.

 

Premade stoping PUGs arent fun. its no challange and no thrill to win.

 

And I dont want to be relying to a team when I want to pvp. It takes time to find a Group and it takes time waiting for a pop as it is today. And I like to switch between quests, flashpoints and pvp as I please, I dont want to be tied to a team and do as the majority of the team wants, I like to do my own stuff when it pleases me. All MMOs ive played have fixed this, except SWTOR, that lacks the freedom of choise, where you are supposed to be tied into a team and have no free will at all, just foloow the herd where it goes.

[Cordorian]

So please describe where exactly the SKILL in this game is? Is it HOW u press your buttons? Is it hoe you make your toon run to left or right? Where exactly is the MAGIC SKILL in this game? I mean I can hit you anyhow u run in as long I can see you. And if you go for cover i follow you. Theres NO SKILLS needed in this game. In a FPS game like Battlefield or CounterStrike there is SKILLS needed, but not in this MMORPG, the SKILLS are counted into your toons EXPERTISE defensive and offensive BONUS, and those bonuese are real high 40-50%. So it wont matter how u press your buttons or how u run if I have HUGE EXPERTISE and you have zero, ill kill you anyway you move or press your buttons. NO SKILLS needed in a GEARbased game.

 

You might have rrealized that expertise is capped at 2018 now, no matter if you have full conq or full obroan, gear was never less important in pvp than it is now. on top of that full conq is possible to get in a week if you actually do some pvp. hell, i am healing on my scoundrel in almost full pve gear right now, and i am doing ok with it (no i am so pro ).

 

Well if only pushing the right button in a static way and gear would be important, why can premades as you thing roflstomp pugs? ask yourself that question and you know that pvp in this game requires some skill ( i am not saying it is horribly difficult). Why is it that some players even when they solo queue end up with top damage even when their side loses horribly (not saying that scoreboard matter much), even playing some like vigilance guardian that isnt and never was flavor of the month. Why are some healers close to unkillable, why can some concealment operatve ( a relatively week class) keep four people busy, without any support, and win the match for you team in AHG or CW. It is simple they know what they doing, they know how their class works and how other classes work, they know how to react to different situations, They do even need the call for incomings because they judge a situation and have environmental awareness.

 

If you try to stun an assassin or try to use force or tech attacks on him when shroud is up, you don't know how his class works and rightfully get killed buy him. When you dont stun an Marauder when he pull Undying, it is your own fault if you get smashed to pieces. If you break when a combat sent master strikes you, doing it wrong. If you as sage use god bubble at 90% you waste your best CD unless it is to interrupt a cap and you have been CCed. If you try to facetank with a sorc you dont understand the role of your class. If you dont switch sides when you are only fight 2 at one door in voidstar you shall not complain but the other guy getting ganked buy 4 on the otherside before he can make the call. If you node guard on top of the turret in CW dont wonder to get ninja capped. if you don't even try to control mid in huttball dont wonder that you lose in game 6-0 in the first minute. If you dont focus down healer dont wonder that the other team doesnt die. if you dont focus fire and make hard switches in arena dont even expect to have a chance.

A good player know whom to attack first, what CDs he has already used what he has left, what they probably will do and how important they are for the team. Good tanks peel for the healer and get the enemies healers out of guard range. They taunt of dangerous dps and control the whole battle. Good healer know who priories in healing how to LOS and how maintain their output under focus. Good DPS know what to produce their maximum damage on the right target and how to use their CDs to the maximum advantage, to a live the longest and burn the most important targets down.

 

I could go on like that for hours. The skill set is quite versatile, and it includes seeing what you team mates do. PuG can own premades if they consist of good players, good player dont need to be voip to fullfill their role. Premades surely have an advantage that they can coordinate more quickly, but in all fairness they most have an easy time when the other side consist of players that simply lack skill.

 

You would surely know all that if you actually played some matches an pay attention.