This game badly needs mods and macros.

[Grammarye]

People don't want recount/skada type of addon so they can hide behind any kind of excuse and lie about what they did / performance etc without someone being able to call them out.

Actually it's because elitist jerks with their own opinion of how to play the game are annoying as hell when they try and tell you that there is only one way, their way.

 

Information is truth. Opinion isn't. Access to information sadly also allows for opinion.

This would actually be great. I can just refuse to group with anyone who keeps their combat log private instead of waiting for them to fail.

What course in logic did you take? Those two aren't linked at all. Oh wait, you must be one of the aforementioned elitists who think that they know everything.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Grammarye

[Skeelol]

Or it's because they are unneeded. I proved this to a guild back in *that* mmo that claimed you NEEDED a mod to survive some boss fight. I video taped the encounter, which I did without a single add-on. Unlike some of my guild mates, who died despite having an addon to tell them when to move and where, I never messed up once.

 

Add-ons are a crutch, plain and simple.

 

That says nothing at all. There's plenty of bad guilds in WoW with tons of people who can't even follow simple addon warnings.

 

We're talking about performance tracking addons here not addons that tell you when to move and where to do it.

Actually it's because elitist jerks with their own opinion of how to play the game are annoying as hell when they try and tell you that there is only one way, their way.

 

Information is truth. Opinion isn't. Access to information sadly also allows for opinion.

 

I'm sorry so we're back to square 1?

 

You want to be a detriment to your group of 3-7-15 people yet they shouldn't be allowed to realize that?

 

You basically want to be able to waste their time without any repercussions.

 

Try taking responsibility for your actions once.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Skeelol

[AlpsStranger]

Information is truth. Opinion isn't. Access to information sadly also allows for opinion.

 

So there's a playstyle where losing is better than winning? Where 200 is better than 300?

 

INB4 something about being a jerk and standing in the fire.

[AlpsStranger]

I for 1 would despise any form of mod that allows someone else to tell me how to play my own toons, that limits my ability to enjoy content in game because i won't be told how to play my toon, and further more that not only promotes but encourages the community to fragment.

 

There are only certain talent specs that are acceptable. You *are* being a burden on your group when you just spec randomly when better information is available.

[JediIorith]

What insults my friend? You're obviously casual and you should find people who think just like you.

 

Just because there's people like me who strive for perfection in whatever they do and are competitive in nature i don't see why you'd be selfish to expect us to carry everyone around. The lack of addons that track your performance is just that. An excuse to be lazy.

 

I have a feeling you're the type who played *that* mmo until they realized how much of a horrible business model it was to have content only 5% of players got to see.

 

I love raiding, I love PVP. I'm not a casual as you claim, and I tend to raid and PVP competitively. I just don't think that it is fair to force players who AREN'T competitive into playing MY way. Which add-ons do, like it or not. Most groups won't let you join them unless you have Add-on X, Y, and Z. It's unfair to players who pay just as much as you do.

[RoWei]

The game does NOT need addons and mods, I just wish Bioware themselves could add a little flexibility to their UI. Like size sliders and the ability to drag stuff around. That shouldn't be too hard to be honest...

 

About macros: Meh, I don't see why not. They are useless to me, I don't understand what they are good for and how they would even be an advantage. Are some ppl too lazy to press buttons or remember rotations?

Edited December 23, 2011 by RoWei

[Grammarye]

So there's a playstyle where losing is better than winning? Where 200 is better than 300?

 

INB4 something about being a jerk and standing in the fire.

What I continue to find amusing is how the people making these statements act as though they're always the ones who are the best.

 

There's no admission that actually they might be the ones who have trouble or need to learn something.

 

Learn some humility. Yes I have a problem with elitist jerks. I have no issue with a sensible discussion around performance, but that's not what it's ever about. It's about one person's over-inflated ego.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Grammarye

[Temeritas]

are you retarded, if they are included and you don't use them you don't stay 'competitive enough' to raid the newest raids, or be part of the high end guilds. No sir, one they are included they become mandatory to anyone that wants to stay competitive in PvP or PvE.

 

Simply this is why they shouldnt be, it would be like having a race with only classic muscle cars, stick transmission no power steering no abs, no luxury. then saying but your allowed to use the newest muscles cars as well but we won't make you. Are you kidding if you wanted to stand a chance at winning you wouldnt be caught dead in anything but top the line cutting edge.

 

Hey Doctor, you can use this knife to do the surgery, or this optional scalpel, your choice...

 

No if they are included they change the game and by doing that they alienate anyone that doesnt want to use them. Its simple and its why they shouldnt be allowed

 

So what you are saying is. You want to have it easy with YOUR playstyle and everyone else should be bored and have less fun, because elsewise you couldnt compete with those people that actually invest time in being better ? I might shock you with this, but they deserve to be better. There are always two approaches for beeing "good" in a mmo. One, you invest time, either for experience or research (i prefere research over meaningless whiping). Two, good eye-hand-coordination and overall reflexes. If you utilize both you can consider yourself "good" and you will be rewarded with ingame success. If you utilize neither, i dont see a reason why you should get anything. A game isnt only about having fun, but about having a competition, if everything is handed to you, it will get boring. Try cheating in a good game. It will be boring as hell because it is too easy, and you will sooner or later stop playing.

 

If you dont like it, play with people that think like you do. Using your example. Its more like complaining that you classic muscle car doesnt stand a chance in the formula 1, so everyother car should be tuned down to you level, instead of you doing races against other classics.

 

PvP is an other topic. But I doubt, that the mentioned changes will put you at a big disadvantage. Having a cleaner ui, different arranged actionbar or a combatlog wont affect you in any way in pvp. Only macros could be a problem, and this only if if the game is simple enough and allows building a prioritylist with macros. If you complain about people that bind alike spells in one macro, and use them according to the pressed modifier(alt, shift etc.) you must be joking. If you dont like targettarget, assist, self etc. You must have sleeped through the last generation of MMOs.

 

 

Real end game guilds won't exist without combat logs anyway. If you can't tell if jimmy is pressing random buttons or actually following the max dps rotation it's really pointless to even try.

 

That or end-game raids will be as easy as tic-tac-toe.

 

 

I wholeheartly agree with this.

[Wariuz]

Macros would take away some "skill" as well if you just put up an range of attacks properly timed instead of trying to click the attacks ourselves on the right moment.

So why the hell people want that is just fecking insane, but guess some people want that small advantage over the people who dont use them. Maybe sucks for the people playing now without macros and dying over and over in the arena.

[Skeelol]

I have a feeling you're the type who played *that* mmo until they realized how much of a horrible business model it was to have content only 5% of players got to see.

 

I love raiding, I love PVP. I'm not a casual as you claim, and I tend to raid and PVP competitively. I just don't think that it is fair to force players who AREN'T competitive into playing MY way. Which add-ons do, like it or not. Most groups won't let you join them unless you have Add-on X, Y, and Z. It's unfair to players who pay just as much as you do.

 

How do you force them exactly?

 

If you're in a group with someone who annoys you, pastes damage meters etc, then by all means you have the ignore function.

 

However if you're in a guild and expect to be carried around, well it's your choice to apply to said guild and you have to play by their rules.

 

Isn't it obvious?

[AlpsStranger]

There's no admission that actually they might be the ones who have trouble or need to learn something.

 

Ok, I want to learn something. I want to improve my DPS rotation.

 

I am confident that I am not a drain on the group, not thinking that I am the best player that ever lived. Huge difference.

[Bobbeh_Cgly]

It's as simple as this:

 

People don't want recount/skada type of addon so they can hide behind any kind of excuse and lie about what they did / performance etc without someone being able to call them out.

 

It's as obvious as night and day.

 

OR is it cause players lacking social skills or a life want something to hold over players who can play the vanilla game better then them while spending less time doing it.

 

Or maybe its cause, certain players have superiority complex's that cause them to have the need to be better than everyone not only in their mind but on paper.

 

Or maybe its cause it gives certain players the 'right' to be douchebags to players who are new to the game, or not very experience.

 

All in all when someone or something trys to tell the mass of players that this is the only way to play, this is the only way to spec, these are the only items to fit, this is the only way to complete the mission. The game is not a game anymore its just a bunch of people following a guide on how to become the author

[JediIorith]

There are only certain talent specs that are acceptable. You *are* being a burden on your group when you just spec randomly when better information is available.

 

So by that argument, why have talent specs at all, if players should ONLY be allowed to use a few of them? Why not make every character the same, with no variation or personality? This is why Themepark MMOs need to die. I remember SWG, with the 20+ professions, with dozens and dozens of combinations, all of which could be made viable with enough skill.

 

I'd love to see some of the modern MMO elitists try that system out.

[Delekii]

What I continue to find amusing is how the people making these statements act as though they're always the ones who are the best.

 

There's no admission that actually they might be the ones who have trouble or need to learn something.

 

Learn some humility.

 

 

Completely beside the point. The comparison is not between people, but one person in comparison with themself.

 

 

A person driving a golf buggy is not necessarily a worse driver than a person driving a ferrari. However, a person who is a good driver driving a golf buggy would unquestionably drive better in a ferrari.

[Skeelol]

OR is it cause players lacking social skills or a life want something to hold over players who can play the vanilla game better then them while spending less time doing it.

 

Or maybe its cause, certain players have superiority complex's that cause them to have the need to be better than everyone not only in their mind but on paper.

 

Or maybe its cause it gives certain players the 'right' to be douchebags to players who are new to the game, or not very experience.

 

All in all when someone or something trys to tell the mass of players that this is the only way to play, this is the only way to spec, these are the only items to fit, this is the only way to complete the mission. The game is not a game anymore its just a bunch of people following a guide on how to become the author

 

This post tells us nothing else than the fact that you aren't all that good at playing games and you're trying to find excuses by insulting those who are better than you.

[sevev]

They need to learn how to play then.

 

Addons dumb down the game. For instance deadly boss mods for WoW told you exactly what to do for every boss encounter. People couldn't learn what to do on their own? Seriously?

 

That stuff ruins MMORPGs.

 

your mindset is full of assumptions and no where near the area of fact.

 

certain add-ons are helpful.. puer and simple.

[TheHauntingBard]

Right let's take it to extremes , add ons give people a tool to be douche bags and no add ons give bad players a free ticket to suck beyond believe.

Even if you speak in these extremes I rather have add ons, I can kick a rude player but I can't spot bad players unless it's very obvious.

 

 

That said any UI mod enhances game play, so is a mail mod.

Recount is great for raiding guilds as well.

Macro's well some basic functions should have been put in the game by Bioware, macro's just allow me to sort things out .

Edited December 23, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[JediIorith]

This post tells us nothing else than the fact that you aren't all that good at playing games and you're trying to find excuses by insulting those who are better than you.

 

You're proving a lot of people's points about the people who have such a need for e-peen rubbing add-ons are elitists, who need to feel superior to others in a Video Game(Aka something meant to be entertaining, and fun. Not a 2nd job)

[AlpsStranger]

So by that argument, why have talent specs at all, if players should ONLY be allowed to use a few of them? Why not make every character the same, with no variation or personality?

 

I've advocated for this before. Instead of three talent trees simply have three different subclasses. You pick one and it applies something like the talent benefits automatically. Get bored with that subclass? Respec into the other one!

 

Sorry, but I'm way ahead of you on this. The talent systems actually *are* pointless in these games for the exact reason you say.

 

Personality comes from you and how you act in the game, not because you do 5% more damage with scatterguns.

[Delekii]

So by that argument, why have talent specs at all, if players should ONLY be allowed to use a few of them? Why not make every character the same, with no variation or personality? This is why Themepark MMOs need to die. I remember SWG, with the 20+ professions, with dozens and dozens of combinations, all of which could be made viable with enough skill.

 

I'd love to see some of the modern MMO elitists try that system out.

 

You are making the invalid assumption that infinite permutations increases complexity or decreases the capability for cookie cutter. It doesn't. Whenever there are talent trees that in any way alter damage numbers, there is a best spec, and there are other specs.

 

The argument being made here is that it is better to live in naivety than to understand the choices you make; its kind of like shutting down scientific endeavor because it endangers the sanctity of religion.

[JediIorith]

I've advocated for this before. Instead of three talent trees simply have three different subclasses. You pick one and it applies something like the talent benefits automatically. Get bored with that subclass? Respec into the other one!

 

Sorry, but I'm way ahead of you on this. The talent systems actually *are* pointless in these games for the exact reason you say.

 

Personality comes from you and how you act in the game, not because you do 5% more damage with scatterguns.

 

Again, someone who started out with Themepark MMOs. Look at SWG. It had over 20 professions. And you could take multiples. Did people need to min/max? No. Sure there were combinations that were stronger, but everything was viable if you took the time to learn it.

 

I say they need to rework the talent trees so that any combination is viable(to a certain extent of course. I'm not advocating, say, putting 1/3 your points in each tree)

[Skeelol]

You're proving a lot of people's points about the people who have such a need for e-peen rubbing add-ons are elitists, who need to feel superior to others in a Video Game(Aka something meant to be entertaining, and fun. Not a 2nd job)

 

I'm sorry but once again you miss the point.

 

This is an MMO, you play with other human beings. In a group like i mentioned earlier, just ignore whoever doesn't agree with you it's that easy.

 

In a guild however you expect to be able to waste other peoples time just to play how you find it fun even if your definition of fun is dancing around while they're raiding. That's just plain wrong.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Skeelol

[Grammarye]

Completely beside the point. The comparison is not between people, but one person in comparison with themself.

Ah but with respect, you are wrong. What is being said in this thread is essentially 'I want these tools so I can discriminate against people I feel are not contributing in the way I desire'.

 

To me, that is not only elitist but defeats the point of it being a game. It's no longer about having fun, exploring, discovering, trying new things out, but regimented into watching meters and doing the same tired thing everyone else does because one combination has been proven to work.

 

I don't have a problem with self-analysis and saying 'I could do X better', but it never stops there. Consider my request to make my stats private, which wouldn't stop self-analysis at all - immediately someone posted 'hey I can then immediately ignore them because I know they're going to fail'. Case closed.

 

I'm not really against tools - I just object to the way people abuse them.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Grammarye

[AlpsStranger]

Again, someone who started out with Themepark MMOs. Look at SWG. It had over 20 professions. And you could take multiples. Did people need to min/max? No. Sure there were combinations that were stronger, but everything was viable if you took the time to learn it.

 

I say they need to rework the talent trees so that any combination is viable(to a certain extent of course. I'm not advocating, say, putting 1/3 your points in each tree)

 

I started out in the Sandbox era, thank you very much. Go ahead though, form whatever mental image of me fits the narrative in your head. You'll sleep easier.

[Msbungle]

A person driving a golf buggy is not necessarily a worse driver than a person driving a ferrari. However, a person who is a good driver driving a golf buggy would unquestionably drive better in a ferrari.

 

I'm guess you mean "faster" more than "better"? These aren't the same thing.

 

I'd rather play with someone who can break their rotation if it means helping the group survive an encounter than someone who cares so much about having high dps that they don't realize they even have other abilities. After recount was intro'd, I found more people to be the second option rather than the first.