This game badly needs mods and macros.

[Delekii]

Before you say well then hide behind your fail, im a tank sir, dps meter means very little to me, i have more damage reduction and hp than 90% of the tanks i run into on my server, with the same dps. so no im not a fail player

 

So you are using the statistics you have available to you to pass judgement that other players are worse than you, because they have lower stats than you. You effectively just used a damage meter, in a different form. Thanks for supporting the cause.

 

Damage meters as a comparison tool are an effective extension of gear and stats; they are the combined output of gear and stats, and capability.

[JediIorith]

Competitive pve, theorycrafting and data analysis. Combat logs and damage meters. In WoW I was someone who basically played for the pure competition of combat log websites like World of Logs, WWS and WoWMeter.

 

The whole thing that drawed me into raiding was theorycrafting to gear my char perfectly and then aiming to achieve the highest damage in raids (we were a fairly decent high end guild, with top in the world competitive players, on those sites).

 

 

 

A lot of people can't understand a competitive person, many people get it from arenas (and i'd love that) but there is no real competitive ranked PVP in SW yet either (atleast not that I'm aware of)

 

 

And for any of this to exist, there needs to be.

 

 

Combat Log.

Customisable UI

Limited Macro System

Damage Parsers.

 

 

Thats just how I look at it. I want both competitive PvP AND Pve, with the tools to make it happen.

 

So what you're saying is, you want this to be just like the game you just stopped playing?

 

MMOs do NOT need to be WoW. Seriously. Stop trying to replace your old addiction with a new one thats the exact same.

[anpaperface]

Signed.

 

The UI is absolutely horrible and about 10 years behind modern MMOs.

 

No target of target? .... Really? ..... Really Really? In an MMO in 2011? Really??

[TheHauntingBard]

Before you say well then hide behind your fail, im a tank sir, dps meter means very little to me, i have more damage reduction and hp than 90% of the tanks i run into on my server, with the same dps. so no im not a fail player

 

That doesn't make you a good tank and yes recount is nice even as tank.

 

- How did I died?

 

- Did I took avoidable damage?

 

- What was that debuff on me?

 

- Did I activate my cool down to late?

 

- Did the healer dispelled me?

 

The list can go on.

[Rhina]

LOL and I got flamed when i asked about some AddOns

 

Need Dmg Meters + UI Customization (easier Hotkey assign)

 

Don't need Bossmods and Healbots!

[Skeelol]

Gramm its ok hes a WoW Fanboi. They can't see past wow and if wow had it all mmo's must also have it. It would be illogical to not have it right....

 

 

The facts are BW has said they will but in a combat log, but they havent said they will allow mods, and if they do if they will allow mods that stretch more than just a local system.

 

So combat log, yes its coming

 

Local DPS meter, used for self improvement and rotation fixing, probably

 

Global DPS meter, who knows but i hope not.

 

Before you say well then hide behind your fail, im a tank sir, dps meter means very little to me, i have more damage reduction and hp than 90% of the tanks i run into on my server, with the same dps. so no im not a fail player

 

You're a tank you say?

 

Then i guess you wouldn't mind me joining your groups and spamming my normal attacks while we wiped endlessly in a lvl 50 flashpoint because of the lack of dps?

 

Ofcourse since you have no proof of that, i'll just blame the healer.

 

Or maybe have more fun and taunt the mob and then tell you that your threat was bad and my dps is awesome.

 

Without a proper tool like skada/recount to prove me otherwise, what will you do? Admit it was your fault i taunted?

[Delekii]

So what you're saying is, you want this to be just like the game you just stopped playing?

 

MMOs do NOT need to be WoW. Seriously. Stop trying to replace your old addiction with a new one thats the exact same.

 

Rugby, Grid Iron, Aussie Rules football, tennis, soccer all use balls. Clearly, they are all trying to imitate each other and we only need one of them.

 

But of course, that isn't the case. The person who invented Aussie Rules Football saw that there was a sport being played that had come from England, and it used this funny shaped ball, and hey, that kinda works, I should adapt that to use in my new game!

 

 

Certain aspects of games work. They are tried and tested, and the reason they are there in current iterations is because they work. There is a reason SWTOR copied so much from WoW, and that isn't a bad thing; it works. Imitation, flattery, yadda, yadda.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Delekii

[Bigbazz]

So what you're saying is, you want this to be just like the game you just stopped playing?

 

MMOs do NOT need to be WoW. Seriously. Stop trying to replace your old addiction with a new one thats the exact same.

 

No no, I stopped playing WoW properly a year ago. But when going to a new MMO I don't expect it to be 3-4 years behind the times of other MMO's. SW as an mmo platform is missing more than just these things listed in this thread, and WoW is not the only MMO that features these things. Star Wars is out of date and lacking in many areas compared to others, even though it has massive potential to be a great game.

 

 

For there to be a serious endgame raiding scene that can rival wow, it needs those things. For there to be competitive PVE, it needs those things. Without it, it is just a casual online game, one that has no chance in competing with WoW.

 

 

This game was made to compete with WoW.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Bigbazz

[Luuma]

And yet you are telling us that you have the right to tell us we have to play with bad people. Can't you smell the hypocrisy? You pay the same amount as me, you get to play the way you want, and I don't. Right?

 

Very well answered.

 

I think most people just have one picture in their mind when they hear the word Macro: Damagemeter. But this is simply only one very small aspect. I am Lev 25 now and already use 12 quickslot keys, hell, it will be very hard to fit it all, but maybe with macro's i can put 2 of them on the same key (Force Charge + Force scream for example) and many more. And have better look for cooldowns, buffs, procs and so on. How the hell should i know as a DD if i can make more damage after 1 minute or hold still because the tank are slacking? How can i see why the tank just died in a opeartion? Was it his fault or the healers slacking? Honestly guys, even in Pug Raid from some known mmo we use this kind of information.

 

I don't need them now, because i just start the game, but without it, honestly, don't think i will be playing more than 3 month.

[AlpsStranger]

Certain aspects of games work. They are tried and tested, and the reason they are there in current iterations is because they work. There is a reason SWTOR copied so much from WoW, and that isn't a bad thing; it works. Imitation, flattery, yadda, yadda.

 

This needs to be said. Game design is not pure art. It has what can be described as an engineering element to it. In the "engineering" side of things there is usually a right way and a wrong way to approach something.

[JediIorith]

No no, I stopped playing WoW properly a year ago. But when going to a new MMO I don't expect it to be 3-4 years behind the times of other MMO's. SW as an mmo platform is missing more than just these things listed in this thread, and WoW is not the only MMO that features these things. Star Wars is out of date and lacking in many areas compared to others, even though it has massive potential to be a great game.

 

 

For there to be a serious endgame raiding scene that can rival wow, it needs those things. For there to be competitive PVE, it needs those things. Without it, it is just a casual online game, one that has no chance in competing with WoW.

 

 

This game was made to compete with WoW.

 

Why does it need to compete with WoW? Why not try to do something NEW, something that isn't about turning the game into a glorified spreadsheet?

[AlpsStranger]

Why does it need to compete with WoW?

 

Because it has no choice?

 

Next question.

[Bobbeh_Cgly]

So you are using the statistics you have available to you to pass judgement that other players are worse than you, because they have lower stats than you. You effectively just used a damage meter, in a different form. Thanks for supporting the cause.

 

Damage meters as a comparison tool are an effective extension of gear and stats; they are the combined output of gear and stats, and capability.

 

Except Del i didnt say they were worse players than me, i just said i do the Tank job better than them.

 

Several possible reasons

- Most Guardians right now while leveling arent 100% Defense Spec'd (i am)

- Most players right now arent paying too much attention to their gear (i wear all orange with my level mods in it when ever i can with no mod less than 3 levels below my level)

- i am a competitive person, and i tend to want to be the best, i played junior pro sports in my city and had sports scholarships before i busted my neck and had to quit. Other people arent

 

 

None of this means that i discriminate against others, just the other day i equiped a young tank out of my wallet and taught him some tricks he didnt know about and showed him some rotations i liked. He took what i said and did his own thing with it, but thanked me kindly was i angry that he wiped us on my alt? no i wasnt, did i want to help him be better definitely.

 

Do i think some people would use addon's with that mind set? 100% and those people are great.

But there are also the people that would use said addons to flame, belittle, harass and abuse someone who didnt understand every aspect of their class, or their job, or their abilities. and those people are why addons are a no in my books

[Skeelol]

So bobbeh, why do you intentionally ignore my post?

 

You're a tank you say?

 

Then i guess you wouldn't mind me joining your groups and spamming my normal attacks while we wiped endlessly in a lvl 50 flashpoint because of the lack of dps?

 

Ofcourse since you have no proof of that, i'll just blame the healer.

 

Or maybe have more fun and taunt the mob and then tell you that your threat was bad and my dps is awesome.

 

Without a proper tool like skada/recount to prove me otherwise, what will you do? Admit it was your fault i taunted?

[TheHauntingBard]

Why does it need to compete with WoW

 

Because that's what they chose for?

Hot key based spread sheet MMO with similar game play to WOW.

From classes to flash points ,even the battle grounds it's nearly identical.

Just like WOW copied a lot from other games before , Blizzard chose to compete with EQ 2.

[Slikeh]

Dont care about addons I guess a threatmeter and dps meters etc would be nice. Getting to the point where you need 4-5+ addons to raid is probably not fine so I could do without. I wouldnt mind some macros either , mostly to avoid some hotkeys , I need like a million keybindings

 

But MOST IMPORTANT ... Customizable UI! Seriously , theres no target of target or focus bar , the raid bars are - somewhat - customizable still not very useful since sometimes it takes a while to show you that you actually healed someone and in warzones it just shows everyone full hp forever ... Anyway , yeah , customizable UI , woo!

[Delekii]

Why does it need to compete with WoW? Why not try to do something NEW, something that isn't about turning the game into a glorified spreadsheet?

 

Why do you think that it is new to not have combat logs and statistics? The vast majority of first generation MMOs did not. FFXI had no combat parsing utility for the first 5 years or so of its life. Then someone created a third party parser and it took off, and things we THOUGHT we understood about the game dissolved. For years and years and YEARS we thought the accuracy and dex statistics worked a certain way, and we were completely off the mark; it changed the way people play. Non-addon games rely on faith. Addons allow sureity and allow us to know we are performing at our best.

 

If you aren't competitive and that isn't important to you, I am NOT ASKING YOU to do the same; I am simply asking for the option. You can play with as many non-addon using people as you can find.

[Deadxero]

Anyone considered that maybe BW doesn't want to turn their project in to a numbers game? We already have plenty of those on the market. Do we need another? What if they want to keep it about having fun, and enjoying the experience, rather than who can crunch the numbers to come up with the **** best rotation ever?

 

Like it or not, adding macro's and add-ins changes the tone of the game. At present, TOR feels more like a communal RPG than the 3D facebook game/statistics lesson that WoW has become. I'm enjoying the difference and hoping they avoid adding incentives to turn this game into an Excel project.

 

That said, I would like to see a greater ability to customize the UI.

[AlpsStranger]

But there are also the people that would use said addons to flame, belittle, harass and abuse someone who didnt understand every aspect of their class, or their job, or their abilities. and those people are why addons are a no in my books

 

And you are going down the twisted, wrecked path of prohibitionist thinking. You are essentially admitting that many people take care of their families, hold down a job, and are all around swell guys who happen to like a drink on Saturday. Yet, for all that, you remain a prohibitionist.

Edited December 23, 2011 by AlpsStranger

[Minnea]

Ah but with respect, you are wrong. What is being said in this thread is essentially 'I want these tools so I can discriminate against people I feel are not contributing in the way I desire'.

 

To me, that is not only elitist but defeats the point of it being a game. It's no longer about having fun, exploring, discovering, trying new things out, but regimented into watching meters and doing the same tired thing everyone else does because one combination has been proven to work.

 

I don't have a problem with self-analysis and saying 'I could do X better', but it never stops there. Consider my request to make my stats private, which wouldn't stop self-analysis at all - immediately someone posted 'hey I can then immediately ignore them because I know they're going to fail'. Case closed.

 

I'm not really against tools - I just object to the way people abuse them.

 

This.

 

I've raided (as a tank) in that other game without macros. No big deal. Granted, macros can be handy in some situations but not essential for your gameplay. And you should know your class well anyways because there can always be situations where you just cannot use your macros but have to go back to basics.

 

On addons I am sitting on the fence. In raids they are useful for coordination and supporting communication. Communication over the net is difficult, as these forums already prove so to keep everyone on the same page, yea. That being said, I dislike the idea that the mechanics and coordination of group work are so difficult that the GAME interface cannot convey required information. I mean, IMHO (eventhough idealistic) UI design has then failed. Furthermore, as HC players/raiders etc. start advocating these, there is a vast mass of wannabes who just adopt them in order to appear pro and start requiring this from everyone else. People in general are just not that mature that they could discriminate between a real need and showing off.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Minnea

[Schnerf]

I think you're missing the point of video games as a whole. They are meant to be entertaining. Fun. Not a way for someone to feel superior to others because they googled a talent spec online.

 

The view of what is fun and entertaining is subjective. For me it is entertaining knowing I'm pushing my class to the very possible limit. All of these wannabes in here calling people terrible and saying addons make games easier, in what game did you experience this? WoW? I bet you did real good clearing normal modes.

 

I really don't understand this discrimination talk and worry. It's the god damn internet, if you're afraid your performance is going to give you hate, go play with people you like or get better at pushing those magic numbers. Or even yet, grow some balls and stop crying about how hurt you are.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Schnerf

[Skeelol]

The view of what is fun and entertaining is subjective. For me it is entertaining knowing I'm pushing my class to the very possible limit. All of these wannabes in here calling people terrible and saying addons make games easier, in what game did you experience this? WoW? I bet you did real good clearing normal modes.

 

Not even that, as someone else posted before, he had amazing experience with the encounters through youtube videos.

[JediIorith]

Anyone considered that maybe BW doesn't want to turn their project in to a numbers game? We already have plenty of those on the market. Do we need another? What if they want to keep it about having fun, and enjoying the experience, rather than who can crunch the numbers to come up with the **** best rotation ever?

 

Like it or not, adding macro's and add-ins changes the tone of the game. At present, TOR feels more like a communal RPG than the 3D facebook game/statistics lesson that WoW has become. I'm enjoying the difference and hoping they avoid adding incentives to turn this game into an Excel project.

 

That said, I would like to see a greater ability to customize the UI.

 

This. WoW-clones fail. It has been proven time and again. Trying to recapture WoW's success is pointless, it was a fluke. It took something, and more or less perfected it.

 

And the MMO genre has been stagnating ever since.

 

No one is willing to risk change, they are content with their MMO lasting 2-3 months until everyone realizes that they've played the game before, and it slowly dies off.

 

Bioware has the chance to do something new, something to revitalize a genre that hasn't changed much in YEARS.

[Delekii]

Granted, macros can be handy in some situations

Glad you agree. People who want to play at the top of their game need macros. Thanks for the support.

[Bigbazz]

Why does it need to compete with WoW? Why not try to do something NEW, something that isn't about turning the game into a glorified spreadsheet?

 

It has to compete with WoW because that is what it was designed to do. Its like building a racecar for a series and then saying it doesnt have to compete with the other race cars. Well I'm sorry, but that race car has to compete with the others whether it likes it or not, and if it doesn't provide, it loses.

 

 

This game isnt trying something new, the game engine is like they copied and pasted Vanilla/TBC WoW and then added flashy graphics and some voice acting. This is a traditional MMO taking directly from World of Warcraft, competing directly with World of Warcraft.

 

 

It is not something new, and it is not something different, it is a glorified spreadsheet, not adding damage meters or combat logs does not for 1 second change the fact that it is that.