Pull - baseline ability for Shadows/Sin.

[Chrisweaver]

Not gonna lie I thought about this a lot while I pvped through my assassin bobidi. The biggest problem I saw was the tank skill tree. If you made the move baseline you would need to give the tanks another move in order to appease them. Which already removes any possibility of it happening because the Devs are way to lazy for all that work. But between our slow that has a low cd, low slash, grenades, and our teams slows/roots a pull isn't what's needed. I am hoping the up in damage on voltaic slash will give give juust the extra bit of damage we need and we will go from there.

[Knightlyyy]

You're missing that assassin/shadow is the class with more crowd control in the game.

 

Common misconception.

[PloGreen]

Are you looking at this conversation from the perspective of Warzones and Arenas?

 

I am looking purely from the perspective of Arenas. I am looking from the perspective of GROUP Arenas.

 

Stealth has little to NO utility in Arenas other than from the initial start of match by sapping someone - although that being said; no good team is going to let a sap foil their efforts so it is hardly worth mentioning.

 

There are other points to discuss about your post but I grow old and weary...

 

I'm not sure what perspective your looking at it from. But whatever your smoking be sure to pass it on. Simply put - I don't agree with you, you just dismiss any reasonable rebuffs to your begging for pull - you think stealth sucks, that sins have 0 crowd control and you compare a stealth burst class to a mara. So I cannot take you seriously in any way, simply because you cannot handle criticism - and act like a prat in an effort to keep this ridiculous topic bumped. Good day sir.

Edited November 20, 2013 by PloGreen

[Badieh]

Wrong.

 

There are just far too many bad Assassins out there (I have a shadow). People complain about an Assassin being shut out of his initial burst. We have the ability to burst twice. If both openers go successfully that is over 20K health from a 30K health toon. If not you're still up with 10K+, force shroud, force speed, low slash, a stun, and force slow.

 

The reason you don't see many assassins topping the arena's is because we're all used to doing things alone. Very few assassin players have a solid grasp on team work. You don't need sustained damage if your dishing out 10K and your 2 fellow DPS are also dishing that damage out to a single target.

 

When focus fire doesn't work you're likely the one to blame because you neglected to mez the healer before unloading your burst - or you failed to correctly keep a healer from healing (scoundrel/operative). A large reason why Assassins are currently failing in Arena's is primarily to do with people failing at the Assassin class.

 

Don't me wrong, I'm not saying we are bad. My assassin has always been my main, and I love playing him. But don't lie to yourself as well, if the fight, not just arena, any fight, takes more time than it usually does. You aren't always the one to blame, maybe team mates failed to focus fire or so, then at some point your performance will start to degrade. Especially if you already used vanish.

 

But this isn't my point, my point is that we don't need a nerf. As well as, no need for unnecessary buffs.

[darthmorbous]

If my memory serves me right, the skill that makes us immune to force attacks breaks roots, as well as any other debuffs.

 

Now onto the real topic. Assassins got some great utilities, especially the tank tree. As a deception player, I do miss the ability to break root on force speed in the tank tree, however, if we have all the utilities + amazing damage as deception, this would makes us OP. Right now we can hold our ground well while still dishing out good damage.

 

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^

as deception assassin i dont feel i need anything else/more to do my job, and i do it pretty darn well

[Stncold]

Please make Unremitting/unstoppable and 4 sec hilt strike stun as baseline ability for guardian/jugg.

 

KKthxbye.

 

^^^^^^

 

No but seriously doing either of those things would be utterly ridiculous.

[Rilok_Singz]

I personally don't think the other shadow trees need a pull. Balance is about dots and keeping at a decent range only closing in when you want so this is useless for them. Infiltration has both slow and force speed on a short cool-down so closing the gap after the burst isn't the issue, its keeping the sustained dps going that hurts shadows . As far as shadows being OP, yea clearly some of you have never stepped foot in a ranked arena.

[Zoom_VI]

Common misconception.

 

If you count snares and KB as control, they are second only to Tank Juggs, however I have never heard a compliant about people getting burst down in a couple seconds by a Jugg tank either.

[doctor_]

i want my powertech to have jet charge as a baseline ability, hell yeah

[madtycoon]

Bringing this discussion to this part of the galaxy. PSA - just thinking about Arenas for how this change will affect the game. PVE - DGAF. Warzones - afterthought to any competitive player. So just Arenas here, folks.

 

Make this happen Bioware! Shadows/Sins are NOT OP in the utility department despite how much *amazing utility* people claim they possess! Majority of them probably have never even played the class! Sheesh.

 

This discussion obviously does not apply to the Tanking tree; as it already possesses the Pull ability.

 

Thereby; think of how this change would affect Deception/Madness Assassins.

 

Next, realize that Madness Assassins are obsolete so you can forget about them as well.

...

 

Pull is not a good mechanic. The ability really hurts the kiting and positioning game. This play is becoming weaker and weaker with every large balance patch. Grip is instant, so it has very few counters. Pull's animation delay is the only way to really outplay this ability. I doubt that is even intended.

 

Grapple gives powertechs some uniqueness. They are the only DPS class that has access to this type of talent. Its good for the game when different DPS classes bring separate skills. It gives variety. There is already too much homogenization with abilities in this game.

 

Its debatable which melee has the best uptime. Marauders are easier to kite for some classes, because they cannot remove slows, especially when pillars are a factor. Adding a pull to assassins would definately increase their time on a target, but does this class really need it? Melee should not have 100% uptime unless they are getting cleansed. There needs to be a good balance between kitters and melee, because when a player kites he sacrifices output.

 

I agree partly with your overall point. DPS sins should be given more utility. Whirlwind (as you stated) takes more skill to use properly, yet it has a very long cooldown. Whirlwind should be the prototype for all mez CC, because it is interruptable (preventable). Casted crowd control should have lowered cooldowns, especially for DPS specs. Lowering cast times or removing pushback on this ability would also be reasonable.

 

Whirlwind on a 30 second or lower cooldown for DPS would be more than fair as long as it remains interruptable.

Edited November 20, 2013 by madtycoon

[sithBracer]

I have to be honest as a shadow I would not find this useful at all except for huttball (to be fair we need all the utility we can get in HB). Mercs are never an issue for me, even the kiting ones, and they can just avoid the pull with hold the line. Snipers are the big problem with their infinite roots/stuns and pull will be useless against them since they cannot be pulled while they are crouched.

 

Lowering the CD on WW would be better but not that useful since it adds so much to the resolve.

 

Sins/shadows need some kind of gap closing ranged attack (similar to leap) or they need to extend the range to attacks like telekinesis to 15-20 or roots need to add to the resolve because right now a rooted sin/shadow is a stunned/mezzed shadow since he can't do anything except taunt (which is not that useful for a shadow's playing style-picking off people at the edges, stealthing objectives, chasing down healers etc).

 

And of course they need more sustained damage and better control over force energy. Lowering the cost of maul by 10 is the dumbest solution they have come up with so far. It will just create more bad shadows/sins who just waste their energy mauling for 3k. All they have to do is lower the cost of double slash by 10 and allow the dps tree to lower it by 5 more. Right now it is complete BS that double slash costs just as much as voltic slash/clairvoyant strike but doesn't do as much damage or add clairvoyance. It costs too much for what it gives us. The double strike + project combo could be our sustained damage (they can even nerf double strike to hurt a little less) while clairvoyant strike should do more damage and clairvoyance effect should be buffed. Why is this so hard to figure out for them.

[Knightlyyy]

Pull - baseline ability for Shadows/Sin.

 

Make it happen.

[bananaface]

10k expertise for myself while everyone else sits on 2k baseline. MAKE IT HAPPEN!

[ishbindeinvater]

maul being AoE damage. make it happen

[AdmiralParmesan]

My sorc needs infinite force barrier. Make it happen.

[ToMyMa]

Mandos need their healing from pre. 1.2.

 

Make it happen.

[Red_Cruiser]

All sins can get pulls when I can opt out of Huttball.

[Raansu]

All sins can get pulls when I can opt out of Huttball.

 

Why would you want to opt out of the only warzone that is actually good?