Good job on making Assassins the most OP DPS class in PvP and nerfing Scrappers.

[Raansu]

The DPS operative nerf was almost as bad as the assassin buffs.

 

I'm still absolutely floored by the bad decision making here, and hope they change their minds.

 

DPS ops need a little love.

Juggs needed the root.

About time they did something about madness.

 

I doubt they are even reading any of these threads. Given their track record, what they posted is pretty much set in stone. The only time they ever back tracked was the CC breaker reset and even that one surprised me. They are usually extremely stubborn.

[ZooMzy]

The only time I actually used cover as a DPS Operative is in two cases:

 

1) Explosive Probe. Because, lol when the burst damage from two big hits lands on someone.

2) Healing. Which, as every good operative understands, you should always take cover if you are casting for heals.

 

Other than that, I also agree that there really is no need for operative/scoundrel DPS to use cover outside of objective based tactics (which, in reality, isn't really that much of nerf at all). If anything, the only people that are majorly impacted from that change are the op/scoundrel healers, who I also think really don't need that kind of nerf.

[doodbro]

I don't even...what? Immobilizing myself doesn't let me initiate anything, how does them leaping to me make them able to use ravage better? ]

 

 

 

Lul. This zoom iv dude has been making these noob posts for like a week.

[TonyDragonflame]

Assassin Changes

 

Swelling Shadows has been redesigned: It now increases the armor rating Dark Charge grants by an additional 20/40%.

 

Dark Charge no longer heals the Assassin, but now increases armor rating by 130% (up from 115%) and deals additional threat when it damages an enemy target.

 

Slightly increased the damage dealt by Thrash.

 

Slightly increased the damage dealt by Maul.

 

Looks like Dark Maul will now destroy every single class in PvP. If you don't know what dark maul is, check out this link and abuse this spec in 2.5. I won't be here, so that doesn't affect me. Just thought you could all use a "Heads up".

 

 

At least vengeance got buffed. Have fun playing this game in 2.5 if you're an assassin.

 

I have shadow 72 valor, playing in 0/31/15 spec, but what I wanna say... Pvp-wise, sins must be nerfed, not buffed. Oh yes, pve-wise increase damage from double strike... but burst need toned down. A lot.

 

How? Easy.

 

Shadow strike must be channeled, 3-sec ability on 30 sec CD. Like Knight's/warriors Master strike/Ravage. Thats all. It will be good change.

 

Instant crit 8-10k damage shadow strike too OP.

Edited October 18, 2013 by TonyDragonflame

[Technohic]

I have shadow 72 valor, playing in 0/31/15 spec, but what I wanna say... Pvp-wise, sins must be nerfed, not buffed. Oh yes, pve-wise increase damage from double strike... but burst need toned down. A lot.

 

How? Easy.

 

Shadow strike must be channeled, 3-sec ability on 30 sec CD. Like Knight's/warriors Master strike/Ravage. Thats all. It will be good change.

 

Instant crit 8-10k damage shadow strike too OP.

 

Umm a 3 sec channel on a position specific ability?

 

Cocaine is a hell of a drug

[TonyDragonflame]

Umm a 3 sec channel on a position specific ability?

 

Cocaine is a hell of a drug

 

Yes baby, yes. Shadow strike need a limit - or be channeled, or CD, or both.

Constantly instant ability which crit 8-10k sahdow strike way too OP.

 

Its smell like conc operatives in 1.0-1.1 times.

[Sir-Coffee]

I don't even...what? Immobilizing myself doesn't let me initiate anything, how does them leaping to me make them able to use ravage better? ]

 

 

 

Lul. This zoom iv dude has been making these noob posts for like a week.

 

He should have been ashamed of himself for making a post like this:

So your telling me that the best way to play a melee dps is to immobilize myself?

[Zoom_VI]

 

He should have been ashamed of himself for making a post like this:

 

LoL, you just failed so hard at sarcasm detection. I was restating exactly what you lot seem to believe, so you can realize the absurdity of it. Because guess what scoundrels are melee, and cover means your immobilized.

 

Dps scoundrels should never use cover, there firstly shouldn't be a need.

Scoundrels need a better way to maintain contact time on target, and better survivability tools. Cover is nothing to do with any of that, and you certainly are never going to put any marginal dps in cover.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[JP_Legatus]

Yes baby, yes. Shadow strike need a limit - or be channeled, or CD, or both.

Constantly instant ability which crit 8-10k sahdow strike way too OP.

 

Its smell like conc operatives in 1.0-1.1 times.

 

It does have several drawbacks - the most drawbacks of any move in swtor in fact.

It requires you to be within 4m, behind the target, and has a melee hit roll. So every melee class in swtor (and several ranged) have access to a move like dodge or saber ward which makes it miss. On top of that it costs half your force unbuffed.

 

Also, you can't crit for 9-10k without the proc and you need the crit buff from a force crit to have any chance at critting, which will still be really low.

 

So I mean yeah it has upsides and I think it was a retarded buff, but anyone who's panicked by this change shouldn't feel too threatened by it honestly. All you have to do is strafe so he's never behind you, and if you do eat one, odds of it being procced AND critting and still leaving him with force afterward are astronomically low.

And it's still the 2nd squishiest melee spec in swtor (I think), barring only melee madness.

Edited October 18, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[ZooMzy]

Yes baby, yes. Shadow strike need a limit - or be channeled, or CD, or both.

Constantly instant ability which crit 8-10k sahdow strike way too OP.

 

Its smell like conc operatives in 1.0-1.1 times.

 

Considering you have to follow a proc that gives you an instant use from your opener, and if you don't, you lose 30% damage and half of your force bar? Not to mention that the critical chance is based solely off of your critical rating and has no buffs from your tree other than base damage?

 

Maul is fine, as there is no guarantee crit chance and also requires a proc to be effective otherwise you break your entire rotation. The only questionable aspect of the sin is the addition of that random lucky hit with guaranteed procs from Discharge and Shocks when you have Recklessness up, which I think may need some fine tuning.

 

But in light of your apparent QQ and actual ignorance over the Deception sin,

 

Deception needs the tank tree buff to make Maul usable from everywhere with a guaranteed crit chance from Low Slash/Spike, along with it needing to be AOE damage. This will effectively make sins more sustained DPS and more effective as long term damage dealers than solo burst, glass cannon ones. Stealth should also be revamped, as DoTs should not kick us out of invisibility because our cleanse is a 1 min CD.

[Cryowolf]

Dps scoundrels should never use cover, there firstly shouldn't be a need.

 

Have you yet to realize you are the only person on these forums that belives this?

 

...and you certainly are never going to put any marginal dps in cover.

 

Sabotage charge and Thermal Grenade would like a word with you, I can pull ~10K from range using them that I created with roll and cover after my opener, while Fletchette Round and Vital shot tick on the guy who now has to walk to me (while slowed) with the fight in *my* control.

 

You should get on the DF scoundrel you claim to have and give it a whirl. Then come back here after and complain like the rest of us that you are losing a useful defensive tool.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Cryowolf

[Sir-Coffee]

LoL, you just failed so hard at sarcasm detection. I was restating exactly what you lot seem to believe, so you can realize the absurdity of it. Because guess what scoundrels are melee, and cover means your immobilized.

 

Dps scoundrels should never use cover, there firstly shouldn't be a need.

Scoundrels need a better way to maintain contact time on target, and better survivability tools. Cover is nothing to do with any of that, and you certainly are never going to put any marginal dps in cover.

Are you being sarcastic? I honestly can't tell.

[Technohic]

Have you yet to realize you are the only person on these forums that belives this?

 

 

 

Sabotage charge and Thermal Grenade would like a word with you, I can pull ~10K from range using them that I created with roll and cover after my opener, while Fletchette Round and Vital shot tick on the guy who now has to walk to me (while slowed) with the fight in *my* control.

 

You should get on the DF scoundrel you claim to have and give it a whirl. Then come back here after and complain like the rest of us that you are losing a useful defensive tool.

 

I'm actually debating maining my mothball scoundrel for a while and going DPS. (I always used to be not very good at sawbones). Think it will be that and my assassin actually. So when people whine about me playing a sin I can be like "Well. I play a scrapper as well..." Of course, it sounds like this tactic won't be as viable anymore, but still have to use that EP.

[Raansu]

Are you being sarcastic? I honestly can't tell.

 

Don't even bother replying to him anymore. The guy clearly has never played DPS scoundrel before and has no idea the utility crouching brought to the class.

[Zoom_VI]

Have you yet to realize you are the only person on these forums that belives this?

 

 

 

Sabotage charge and Thermal Grenade would like a word with you, I can pull ~10K from range using them that I created with roll and cover after my opener, while Fletchette Round and Vital shot tick on the guy who now has to walk to me (while slowed) with the fight in *my* control.

 

You should get on the DF scoundrel you claim to have and give it a whirl. Then come back here after and complain like the rest of us that you are losing a useful defensive tool.

 

your pulling 10K off that? Post a combat log before you start pulling numbers our of the air

 

And please enlighten me on how you managed to apply fletchette round from range.

[Technohic]

your pulling 10K off that? Post a combat log before you start pulling numbers our of the air

 

And please enlighten me on how you managed to apply fletchette round from range.

 

He really says how he applied flechette in that post you quoted.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Technohic

[Zoom_VI]

He really says how he applied flechette in that post you quoted.

 

So he goes to melee range applies dots, scampers away from his target....He would do a crapton more damage if he just did sabcharge>backblast after his opener.

 

But please you guys keep throwing those charged bursts and thermal grenade while the enemies healer laughs in your face. Oh and by the way wounding shots hits much harder than EP and that's without using weakening blast before it

[ZooMzy]

Sabotage charge and Thermal Grenade would like a word with you, I can pull ~10K from range using them that I created with roll and cover after my opener, while Fletchette Round and Vital shot tick on the guy who now has to walk to me (while slowed) with the fight in *my* control.

 

First off, I think the changes being made to the overall function of Cover are that leapers will be able to close the distance to you and pullers will be able to grapple you. Whether you are kicked out of cover or not remains to be seen from leaping in general, while pulling will naturally do it.

 

As for cover being useful for DPS operatives, here's the list of things that can be done that REQUIRE cover:

 

1) Explosive Probe

2) Snipe

 

Snipe is completely worthless as it's a ~2k damage ranged attack that requires 2 seconds of channel as an operative. And then we have Explosive Probe, where it's completely instant and literally requires a second of kneeling down to drop.

 

So in all honesty, I don't see where the huge nerf is coming from, considering that there's only a slight alteration to playstyle. The tactics you listed are only accounting for 1v1, where when you are faced with a situation that isn't a 1 on 1 match up, the whole strat can easily go out the window with two coordinated people. Especially since the whole Concealment spec is designed for you to get up close and burn burn burn, while Lethality's only advantage from cover is to prevent leapers from leaping to you when you're dotting everyone.

 

While I agree that this is a nerf, it's a stretch to claim that DPS operatives are getting flat out shat on in this update just because Cover no longer prevents you from getting leaped and pulled. The only players that need to majorly switch up their game now are the healers, as that change is a major factor to them. To DPS ops and scoundrels, it's not very bad if you look past 1v1s.

Edited October 18, 2013 by ZooMzy

[Cryowolf]

your pulling 10K off that? Post a combat log before you start pulling numbers our of the air

 

And please enlighten me on how you managed to apply fletchette round from range.

 

Really? You need a combat log to see 7K Sabo and 3K Thermal crits? Beginnning to think you really don't have a scoundrel...

 

As I explained in the other thread, after opening with FR/SF + (BW, SP or VS) + Tendon Blast, you then roll out for range and drop cover.

[Raansu]

your pulling 10K off that? Post a combat log before you start pulling numbers our of the air

 

And please enlighten me on how you managed to apply fletchette round from range.

 

Reading isn't your strong point is it?

 

using them that I created with roll and cover after my opener,

[ktkenshinx]

The only "nerf" to DPS Scounds/Ops is the fact that the QS/OS change is considered a buff.

 

For over a year, Scrappers and Ops have been offering highly specific, realistic, and actionable suggestions about fixing the class. The devs always tell us to be constructive and concrete in our arguments, and Scrappers have done that to a fault. We have crunched numbers, posted logs, and theorycrafted until there was no more theory left to craft. And all of that effort boils down to....a buff to the worst ability in our arsenal? To its damage, not its real problem (cost)?

 

I have tried to remain faithful in BW for years. Anyone who has read my old posts and threads will attest to that. But this shows me that the Combat Team has absolutely no idea what is going on with this class, nor any interest in really improving it. Maybe the old 1.0 Ops left such a sour taste in people's mouths that it will never be improved again. Whatever the reason, the result is pretty clear.

[Raansu]

The only "nerf" to DPS Scounds/Ops is the fact that the QS/OS change is considered a buff.

 

For over a year, Scrappers and Ops have been offering highly specific, realistic, and actionable suggestions about fixing the class. The devs always tell us to be constructive and concrete in our arguments, and Scrappers have done that to a fault. We have crunched numbers, posted logs, and theorycrafted until there was no more theory left to craft. And all of that effort boils down to....a buff to the worst ability in our arsenal? To its damage, not its real problem (cost)?

 

I have tried to remain faithful in BW for years. Anyone who has read my old posts and threads will attest to that. But this shows me that the Combat Team has absolutely no idea what is going on with this class, nor any interest in really improving it. Maybe the old 1.0 Ops left such a sour taste in people's mouths that it will never be improved again. Whatever the reason, the result is pretty clear.

 

1.0 OPs were not even really an issue. At the time you could pop adrenals, clickable relics and the warzones were 10-50. Of course a burst spec stood out with all those buffs running around on top of people still gearing for expertise and then there was expertise blasting lowbies....Those nerfs were completely unjustified, especially after they decided to remove clickable relics and adrenals from warzones which just hurt OPs even more.

 

The OPs never really got a chance to play in a pure 50 environment with teams that were fully geared (thanks crappy bag system.) Those nerfs were a complete overreaction to a class that was exactly what it should of been. A glass cannon burst spec that died instantly after their opener.

[Lucinn]

Most op class in smashers, leapers they rule pvp.

[Sir-Coffee]

Most op class in smashers, leapers they rule pvp.

 

I'm going to have to go with Dark Maul on this.

[djcetra]

I'm sorry but this Dark Maul spec is garbage, nothing full deception can't already do -minus bs stance dancing. What a load. 35k dmg in under 10 seconds and 11k+ crits already happen on my decep sin and i don't have to clown dance around, I also have a somewhat sustainable dps rotation as well. Bad sins everywhere.