Powertechs over buffed

[NathanielStarr]

Come on Bioware. Why can't you do it right? Now you have hybrid Powertech tanks that won't die. Edited October 9, 2013 by NathanielStarr

[EzioMessi]

Come on Bioware. Why can't you do it right? Now you have hybrid tanks that won't die.

 

o_O The only advantage hybrid tanks have over other DPS is the fact that they are recognized as a DPS by the queue, so different comps. With any Group Ranked comp, a hybrid tank is just like any other tank (somewhat weaker maybe).

[NathanielStarr]

o_O The only advantage hybrid tanks have over other DPS is the fact that they are recognized as a DPS by the queue, so different comps. With any Group Ranked comp, a hybrid tank is just like any other tank (somewhat weaker maybe).

 

Well they are able to tank like a tank now and dps like a dps. The buff for kolto overload was overboard.

[Raazmir]

I'm afraid your sig makes this thread entirely too ironic.

[Zunayson]

Well they are able to tank like a tank now and dps like a dps. The buff for kolto overload was overboard.

 

Tank like a tank? They have neither

• Tank gear
  
• Tank talents
  

DPS like a DPS? If you say that AP hybrids can DPS like a DPS, you're ALSO saying that a full AP is extremely OP. Hybrids miss out on:

• 2 heat per global (lots of heat!)
  
• Autocrit railshot (burst!)
  
• 5% reduction on damage....
  
• in addition to losing 6% overall damage for most of their moves
  
• 15% movement speed
  

 

Simply put, Hybrids sacrifice DPS for survivability. If the survivability gained is too much than the DPS lost, then either one of two logical conclusions can be reached:

1. Tank stance is too powerful, and should have its defensive capibilities nerfed and put back high up in the tank tree
   
2. HEGC, the AP stance, needs buffs to be comparable to tank stance (I think adding stance restriction is a lazy man's fix)
   
3. You're all just mad that you lose and don't really care about fighting in the name of justice of nerfing an overpowered play style.
   

 

 

 

The best part: Buffs for powertechs of AP spec include: Surge boost to FT and damage boost to immolate (at the cost of a reduction on the bleed), small crit boost to Rocket Punch.

 

None of those changes actually make the hybrid OP. The introduction of arenas completely changed the metagame - making AP tanks more useful - not more powerful.

 

As a result, more people play them. With more people playing them, the more likely very skilled players are playing them. Therefore, you get mad when you lose, and rationalize your lack of performance with the idea that this patch really changed much.

 

NEWSFLASH: When the smash pandemic re-began in 1.6, the damage did not increase! Regardless that the QQers thought so!

 

 

 

 

edit: also nice sig

Edited October 9, 2013 by Zunayson

[Raansu]

Well they are able to tank like a tank now and dps like a dps. The buff for kolto overload was overboard.

 

It wasn't overboard, it was a completely logical change. They upped it by 5% because before it would heal to 30% giving the other team constant finisher attacks. Moving it up to 5% made it so they didn't get bombarded by finishers.

[NogueiraA]

Loving playing FULL Pyro in Huttball...

Switch to tank stance = 49.59% damage reduction +

Energy Shield 25% DR +

Kolto Overload 30% DR +

Chaff Flare 25% defense chance +

Adrenal 15% DR

= 119.59% Damage Reduction + 30% defense chance (5 pattern + 25 chaff flare) = 12secs IMORTAL.

 

I scored 6x using the same things, the cd's are very low.

 

People crying to nerf Undying Rage

Do you think I'm saying BS? Go see the Pyro talent tree.

Edited October 9, 2013 by NogueiraA

[Lalainnia]

A lot of people said they were getting overbuffed on the pts AP was fine when 2.0 hit it just wasn't better than smash so not many people would take it. As for Pyro, they need to understand that they will never have the old burst they had pre 2.0 pointblank it was overpowered, the damage pyro puts out now is great, whats not as great as pre 2.0 lvs is the burst and I really doubt it will ever be especially when taking into account the great defensive cds pyro got. Lastly the tanking tree got a massive buff in general with the change to how shields operate in pvp and no one can knock riot gas/oil slick change its a much needed an great ability.

 

Overall powertechs are in a very nice spot atm only thing that really doesnt make much sense to me is why they in fact buffed the AP tree on the pts. Sadly I could see bioware locking prototype flamethrower to that joke of a cell high energy cell and end up killing the hybrid. If they that does end up happening I would hope they change the way that cell works because atm the only nice thing about it is the heat/ammo regain.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Lalainnia

[Aetideus]

They are noy overbuffed. The class AP abilities match with Arena gameplay and with more survivability people complain. Edited October 9, 2013 by Aetideus

[Angellis]

They are noy overbuffed. The class AP abilities match with Arena gameplay and with more survivability people complain.

 

Total and complete nonsense. I understood this kind of reaction because everyone wants to protect what they've got if they're onto a good thing, but this is simply disingenious. You aren't kidding anyone, not even yourself. Anyone of any class to any good standard of PVP in this game knows that AP hybrid is OP because it is too strong in too many playstyles. The solution that I keep hearing, and from PTs (those who are honest), is to simply bind the trees to cylinders, like how other class trees work. No one is asking for tank or AP trees to be nerfed, but the general consensus is that they should be great at one or the other, not both - which is the case now. Bind the flame dps to middle-tree cylinder and prevent AP hybrids pulling better damage than pure-damage classes and better protection than pure-tank classes. (Given that this is what they did with Juggernaut I find it staggeringly dumb that with the PT changes they didn't consider this.)

 

Normally I don't get involved in these sorts of threads. I don't cry for nerfs or buffs - but when I see people blatantly talking rubbish in order to protect their OP niche I am going to call it. AP/PT/hybrid is FOTM everywhere you look at all levels of PvP at the moment. Errr..... why do you think that is? Oh that's right, all of a sudden (as of last Tuesday) every player decided to dust off their alt PT, and all those half-decent PTs suddenly became world beaters and extremely popular in arenas... what an astonishing coincidence!

[Raansu]

The hybrid itself isn't really OP, it's just the system is counting it as a dps and they are essentially playing out the role of a tank while the other team has no tanks. At the end of the day I think stances should be locked to specs and the actual stance should be placed into the tree like how shien is on vengeance.

[foxmob]

Well they are able to tank like a tank now and dps like a dps. The buff for kolto overload was overboard.

he kind of has a point. the fact of the matter is that PT/VG tanks in arenas are just guard machines. the only really important ability to get to is storm (riot gas is much earlier). They can afford to put most of the points into dps abilities. I say this because they aren't losing any control. Ion cell and all the debuffs that it applies to targets is also covered before achieving storm. guard cannon and soldier's grit are the only things you really lose, and I don't think those are major losses compared to the dps gains of going up the tactics tree for pulse generator. the rest of the tree is direct dmg mitigation, but who focuses a tank with nearly full hp in arenas?

 

the tank is a guard machine and a 3rd dps. since shield/absorb isn't impacted by guard dmg, there's little incentive to taking talents for it, and hp comes from gear/augs. meanwhile, the super buffed pulse cannon/PFT does not require the tactics-specific cell. so you can go all the way up the tree to pulse generator and miss the 30% surge. tank gear and endurance augs are big on power (presumably because the assumption is that their dps abilities aren't significantly buffed via their tech trees).

 

TL; DR: running a hybrid VG/PT in arenas (where a tank takes relatively little direct dmg) can be quite effective because he can take advantage of the major dps bonuses from the tactics/ap tree.

 

BW could easily fix this by tying PFT/PG to the high energy cell.

Edited October 9, 2013 by foxmob

[Zoom_VI]

Loving playing FULL Pyro in Huttball...

Switch to tank stance = 49.59% damage reduction +

Energy Shield 25% DR +

Kolto Overload 30% DR +

Chaff Flare 25% defense chance +

Adrenal 15% DR

= 119.59% Damage Reduction + 30% defense chance (5 pattern + 25 chaff flare) = 12secs IMORTAL.

 

I scored 6x using the same things, the cd's are very low.

 

People crying to nerf Undying Rage

Do you think I'm saying BS? Go see the Pyro talent tree.

 

You just failed so hard at math.

DR IS MULIPICATIVE

Also kolto overload isn't DR and its a self heal on a 3 minute cooldown.

Enegery shield is a 2 minute cooldown for pyro and full tank

I've also scored 6x in full tank, in scoring 6x is way easier in full tank than it is in hybrid.

 

Switching to tank stance doesn't give you 50% DR either

 

Adrenals are available to everyone.

Saber Ward is twice as potent as Reactive shield will ever be.

 

Also Undying rage and camo are 45 second cooldowns, which means you could pop them four times in the time it takes kolto overload to come off cooldown

Edited October 9, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[Zoom_VI]

he kind of has a point. the fact of the matter is that PT/VG tanks in arenas are just guard machines. the only really important ability to get to is storm (riot gas is much earlier). They can afford to put most of the points into dps abilities. I say this because they aren't losing any control. Ion cell and all the debuffs that it applies to targets is also covered before achieving storm. guard cannon and soldier's grit are the only things you really lose, and I don't think those are major losses compared to the dps gains of going up the tactics tree for pulse generator. the rest of the tree is direct dmg mitigation, but who focuses a tank with nearly full hp in arenas?

 

the tank is a guard machine and a 3rd dps. since shield/absorb isn't impacted by guard dmg, there's little incentive to taking talents for it, and hp comes from gear/augs. meanwhile, the super buffed pulse cannon/PFT does not require the tactics-specific cell. so you can go all the way up the tree to pulse generator and miss the 30% surge. tank gear and endurance augs are big on power (presumably because the assumption is that their dps abilities aren't significantly buffed via their tech trees).

 

TL; DR: running a hybrid VG/PT in arenas (where a tank takes relatively little direct dmg) can be quite effective because he can take advantage of the major dps bonuses from the tactics/ap tree.

 

BW could easily fix this by tying PFT/PG to the high energy cell.

 

You realize you can go full 36 dps and put up terrible number if you are in tank gear, the dps comes with gear. Also going full tank is pathetic in dps gear. Guarding as a full dps isn't tank your just offering your hp pool to the target, nothing more.

[goz_-]

People who can't handle offtanks in MMORPGs should take a break and learn proper PvP somewhere. Especially the ones who rely on AoE burst which has always been worse than assisttrain, which is actually the solution to the "big bad ultra op" hybdrid spec problem.

[Aelaias]

Kolto overload mentioned in the op was buffed mosy for pyro. It is much weaker in other specs.

[SajPl]

Bind the flame dps to middle-tree cylinder and prevent AP hybrids pulling better damage than pure-damage classes and better protection than pure-tank classes.

 

This is the typical load of rubbish that bioware has to sort through.

 

1. Juggs can smash in tank stance or reset ravage in tank stance so both Jugg trees are hybrid-viable and do the same amount of damage AP tanks do, it's a L2P issue. The diferrence here is that a jugg has better control and is sturdier so can do 500k damage+500k protection while an AP has more damage but less control and survivability so can do 700k damage and 200k protection.

2. Pure AP has easily 30% more DPS than an AP tank, AP tank has sligtly better survivability. And yes I mean slightly because armor counts for very little in this game, while active cooldowns provide the real defenses, that is why sents are so stupidly OP having 5 of them while the rest of the classes get 2-3.

3. In dps gear they are as easy to kill as other dps, the point of being in tank-stance is the luxory of the guard for the healer or teammate. While in tank gear they can be hard to kill but the damage is non-existant.

 

People who can't handle offtanks in MMORPGs should take a break and learn proper PvP somewhere. Especially the ones who rely on AoE burst which has always been worse than assisttrain, which is actually the solution to the "big bad ultra op" hybdrid spec problem.

 

^This.

 

You realize you can go full 36 dps and put up terrible number if you are in tank gear, the dps comes with gear. Also going full tank is pathetic in dps gear. Guarding as a full dps isn't tank your just offering your hp pool to the target, nothing more.

 

And especially this. Read 100 Times if you must, untill you comprehend what this person is telling you.

Edited October 9, 2013 by SajPl

[Glower]

Tis to simply bind the trees to cylinders, like how other class trees work

 

Im ok with this. But please, dont nerf this class to the ground.

[cycao]

Im ok with this. But please, dont nerf this class to the ground.

 

Well it doesn't make sense that they allowed a good hybrid since they made it clear with 2.0 that they wanted to limit the amount of hybrid specs as they wanted full 36 point builds.

 

Though I really don't think the class was overbuffed as I was sick of hearing that PT's flat out sucked which I never thought it did, they just needed to make it better so all the bads playing it can have success with it.

[Technohic]

I've playerd around with Ion cell while using tactics and really, I think the big issue is that the full tank tree is somewhat uninteresting while the tactics tree actually gives some nice defensive abilities and itself is uninteresting as far as DPS goes. Going from assault DPS to Ion cell tactics I find that I lose as much DPS as I gain defense and that also depends on heat/ammo management as it is not so great with Ion Cell running tactics.

 

After playing a bit of every class, most to at least 50; I will have to say that PT/Vanguard in general can be described as un-interesting with simple rotations.

[Rw-Gamepro]

You just failed so hard at math.

DR IS MULIPICATIVE

Also kolto overload isn't DR and its a self heal on a 3 minute cooldown.

 

Automated Defenses in the upper tier of the pyro tree gives 30%DR while kolto overload is active. Also getting attacked reduces its cooldown by 6 secs every 1.5 secs.

[Aetideus]

Total and complete nonsense. I understood this kind of reaction because everyone wants to protect what they've got if they're onto a good thing, but this is simply disingenious. You aren't kidding anyone, not even yourself. Anyone of any class to any good standard of PVP in this game knows that AP hybrid is OP because it is too strong in too many playstyles. The solution that I keep hearing, and from PTs (those who are honest), is to simply bind the trees to cylinders, like how other class trees work. No one is asking for tank or AP trees to be nerfed, but the general consensus is that they should be great at one or the other, not both - which is the case now. Bind the flame dps to middle-tree cylinder and prevent AP hybrids pulling better damage than pure-damage classes and better protection than pure-tank classes. (Given that this is what they did with Juggernaut I find it staggeringly dumb that with the PT changes they didn't consider this.)

 

Normally I don't get involved in these sorts of threads. I don't cry for nerfs or buffs - but when I see people blatantly talking rubbish in order to protect their OP niche I am going to call it. AP/PT/hybrid is FOTM everywhere you look at all levels of PvP at the moment. Errr..... why do you think that is? Oh that's right, all of a sudden (as of last Tuesday) every player decided to dust off their alt PT, and all those half-decent PTs suddenly became world beaters and extremely popular in arenas... what an astonishing coincidence!

 

Actually it is not for every playstyle which is a lack of spec knowledge. I play this only in Arenas when is not suitable for any competitive 8x8. If we gonna to be fair the PFT should be bound to HEGC, but not before reducing Rage survivability, Op healer output and sniper stuns. If balance and fairness is the quest.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Aetideus

[Brunner_Venda]

You just failed so hard at math.

DR IS MULIPICATIVE

Also kolto overload isn't DR and its a self heal on a 3 minute cooldown.

Enegery shield is a 2 minute cooldown for pyro and full tank

I've also scored 6x in full tank, in scoring 6x is way easier in full tank than it is in hybrid.

 

Switching to tank stance doesn't give you 50% DR either

 

Adrenals are available to everyone.

Saber Ward is twice as potent as Reactive shield will ever be.

 

Also Undying rage and camo are 45 second cooldowns, which means you could pop them four times in the time it takes kolto overload to come off cooldown

 

Nobody is going to listen to your common sense and intelligent post.

 

What we have here are OP saber jockeys that are angry that they can't faceroll powertechs anymore, and they have to be a good player to beat a similar AP/tactics build.

 

Some are discovering that yes, Jedi classes have been OP for some time, and now that PT's are competitive, they aren't nearly as good at this game than they thought they were. PT's used to be easy kills! Smash, choke, stun, throw, smash again. Dead PT. I must be great at this game!

 

I can't be an average player. That's impossible. It must be that PT is overtuned!

 

PS: you forgot to mention that all of the good changes to kolto overload and Degauss/flare are at the top of the PYRO tree. You've got to be straight up stupid to run a tank stance in that tree, because you lose both CGC and prototype accelerator (90% of pyro DPS). You would do more damage with the tank tree and skills like flame engine, AND survive more with the self heals on shoulder cannon, and the boost to shield chance.

[Laforet]

You just failed so hard at math.

DR IS MULIPICATIVE

Also kolto overload isn't DR and its a self heal on a 3 minute cooldown.

Enegery shield is a 2 minute cooldown for pyro and full tank

I've also scored 6x in full tank, in scoring 6x is way easier in full tank than it is in hybrid.

 

Switching to tank stance doesn't give you 50% DR either

 

Adrenals are available to everyone.

Saber Ward is twice as potent as Reactive shield will ever be.

 

Also Undying rage and camo are 45 second cooldowns, which means you could pop them four times in the time it takes kolto overload to come off cooldown

 

 

/thread

 

Pyro is fine.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Laforet

[Brunner_Venda]

Automated Defenses in the upper tier of the pyro tree gives 30%DR while kolto overload is active. Also getting attacked reduces its cooldown by 6 secs every 1.5 secs.

 

And running tank stance in pyro would be monumentally stupid.

 

No PPA procs to refresh rail shot, you wait 15 seconds for it like tank and AP.

 

No CGC dots.