Please switch the engine now before its too late..

[mmjarec]

I think it's likely the engine was chosen to facilitate a less expensive way to create the MMO. The hero engine allows unique area building and cooperation among developers...with real time changes allowed.

 

The problem exists in the customization IMO, not the engine itself, and as such can be adjusted to run better. They made the changes, so they can make the adjustments over time.

 

It is just something that is going to take a while. I think the engine today runs better than it did at launch, and I think it has vast room for improvement and will see that improvement.

 

Reducing CPU dependence should be a priority IMO. It is not very efficient in this aspect compared to some modern game engines.

 

If it could be tweaked it would. Its maxed. They cannot make tje fos and lag issies go away it will always lag sith more than a few pll onscreen. They are to the point to where they cannot modify it anymore. They coded themselves into a corner

[CarpeSangrea]

If it could be tweaked it would. Its maxed. They cannot make tje fos and lag issies go away it will always lag sith more than a few pll onscreen. They are to the point to where they cannot modify it anymore. They coded themselves into a corner

 

Since you can't even spell properly what qualifications could you possibly have to make this assumption?

[mmjarec]

Since you can't even spell properly what qualifications could you possibly have to make this assumption?

 

Sel fone. Duhr

[Hazed]

For those of you who are delusional:

 

C/p from: http://www.swtor-life.com/editorial/top-5-reasons-why-swtor-failed/7143/

credit goes to original author: Mikro

 

 

Top 5 Reasons Why SWTOR Failed

Published by Mikro under Editorial on Sep. 19. 2012.

Now that mostly everyone that worked on the creation of Star Wars: The Old Republic is fired or left and that sufficient time has passed to have enough distance to talk about everything that transpired I want to list the top 5 things that, in my opinion, caused SWTOR to fail. TOR is not a bad game by any measure, but considering the fact it lost at least 75% of its initial players (and if we are to be honest the number is now closer to 95%) and sold less copies than most AAA single player games do, I feel confident enough to call it a failure. If John Riccitiello, CEO of Electronic Arts, called it that I see no reason why I shouldn’t. For the past couple of months I considered hard whether to call it the biggest failure in the history of MMORPGs since Age of Conan, but the jury is still out there on that one so I’ll stick to just calling it a general failure.

 

1. Tech/Hero engine –

Bioware chose to use a 3rd party engine to create SWTOR. Most companies out there invested in having a developer team that created their own engine. I am guessing that Bioware wanted to shorten the development time by using an already available engine called – Hero engine. On paper it looked like it would accomplish everything it needed to do. In reality things worked out a bit different.

As seen on Ilum, large scale PvP is impossible in SWTOR, because once more than 40 people showed up in the same place things would become a lag fest with the graphics simply killing your computer no matter how strong it was. What kind of MMO is it if large number of people can’t be in the same place?

The engine seems to be incredibly difficult to modify and implement initially unsupported features. It took them months to create a dungeon finder and server merges. Talking to the developers I heard over and over again how hard it was to put in features that were not already in the engine. … and than the bugs… oh my God the bugs.

There seems to be something incredibly hard or wrong with the scripting part of the Hero engine because even the simplest events initially had bugs.

Can you say loading times? It takes upwards of five minutes to load Belsavis! Higher the level the more loading screens you would see by moving from your ship to another planet and back to the fleet. Every time I had to go somewhere I cringed a bit.

The game was not broken at launch per se. However, due to being faced with modifying other people’s tech it took months to do things that should have taken weeks. Which brings us to our no. 2

 

2. Failure to react on time/initial number of servers/empty servers –

Bioware decided to be generous with the number of servers they had at launch. Someone over there thought that queues at launch are much worse than having empty servers a month later. After all the beta testing they went with a very conservative server cap and I am not sure if they had more than 2000 concurrent players per server allowed before queue started to kick in. That is how it felt, because rarely you would see more than 50 players per planet on a moderately populated server with the most people being on fleet (100-150 max on med server). As with every MMO that launched in the past 10 years we had 25% of players leave within the first three months. In SWTOR’s case this meant 500.000 players left. You know what that did to the medium population servers? They became low pop and we had 10 people per planet and 30-50 players on fleet … in a Massive Multiplayer Online game. Can you say “single player MMO“?

It took them 6 months to initiate the first server transfers (not merges – no). By then they lost 50+ percent of their subscribers. Someone over there did not think a technology for moving player characters between servers will be necessary so they had to develop it… You know, it is unheard of for a MMO to need to reshuffle its population in between servers post launch…

This inability to react to things players demanded was visible in other areas as well, but nowhere did it hurt the game as much as the empty servers did. Next time your players tell you the servers are empty do not reply with snark comments how “the galaxy is a big place” mkay? If they had done server merges and extended the pop cap back in March we would have seen a much lower churn rate and the game would probably be in a much better state now.

Can you also say group finder? How could it take so long to make such an essential tool available?

 

3. Inability to communicate –

the corporate rules imposed on Bioware have made communication with the players just a bunch of “soon” and “happy thoughts” statements. When things were the most critical the players were kept in the dark, which caused them to lose faith, which caused them to move on. There is a lot of faith involved in MMORPGs. Faith that the developer will continue to produce content for the virtual world you chose to participate in and pay subscription for and that the developer will fix the current bugs or systems that are not up to par in quality. That faith is best reinforced with honest communication and delivering on promises. Instead we had weeks and months of silence.

The most incredible display of how grossly awkward the rules of silence are in Bioware was during GamesCom 2012. I was at the SWTOR booth because they were showing the new warzone – Ancient Hypergates. I was filming the gameplay with my camera and a person from Bioware came to me demanding to stop filming! Why? Why would you want to stop your players and fans from seeing the new stuff that will be coming to the game. Are you freaking insane? Out of 10 or so games and companies I filmed during GamesCom – none of them asked me not to record. None, except Bioware! And it was at a public booth where everyone could play the new warzone!

I always understood that there are delicate forces at work with Lucas Arts overseeing all of the things happening and EA having their own policies about public presentation. What we got in the end is a community team that was let go for following company rules and bunch of angry players that left due to not having confidence in “we are working on it” sentences. Also – server merges are server merges and not server transfers.

 

4. Electronic Arts –

I feel pretty confident saying now that EA killed SWTOR. Now that the good Doctors retired from Bioware the last piece of the puzzle fell in. I do not think Bioware intended to launch SWTOR in the state it was ultimately launched in. They had to release it in 2011 (and if any of you remember, it was John Riccitiello, CEO of EA, who first said SWTOR will launch in 2011) so that EA honchos had something to show to the investors in that year. Just remember the rushed announcement of the launch at Eurogamer Expo 2011 and the terrible date of the launch (launch a few days before Christmas – nice). From my last interview with Gabe Amatangelo we heard that Ilum PvP was rushed due to launch and I assume the same stands for other parts of the game that looked rushed (semi-functional GTN; basic chat functions; basic UI; bugs in end game). That was the first thing that hurt SWTOR a lot. It is almost a consensus now that if the game launched with 1.2 features things would have played out a lot different.

The second thing that EA did to kill SWTOR was pull the rug under its feet way too early. We now learned that the good doctors gave notice in April and in May we had the first wave of layoffs in SWTOR studio in Austin, TX. This means that EA pronounced SWTOR a failure 4 months after launch and I think consequently Greg Zeschuck gave notice and Ray followed. This reduced the studio’s ability to fix bugs and create new content and directed the game towards free to play and sc****** the bottom of the barrel.

With those two moves there is nothing left of Bioware’s vision of this game that we were fans of and the we followed for years; instead, we have a new Electornic Arts’ SWTOR

 

5. Fear of innovation/playing it safe –

It was pretty apparent Bioware will create a themepark MMO with familiar game mechanics right of the bat. When I first played the game back in 2010 I jumped right in and did not need a tutorial or anything. Everything was done in a well established manner and where they tried to innovate was quality. The quests were improved by voiceovers, cutscenes and some primetime writing. The companions had better AI and more personality than similar “systems” in other games. The worlds had more lore and very rich environments. Were any of these things an innovation? In my opinion – no. They were an evolution perhaps, but not an innovation and obviously players did not appreciate this.

As a matter of fact, they started picking on everything that was not on par with the quality in other games. You have no dungeon finder? Fail. You have no customizable UI? Fail. There’s a lesson to be had here. If you are not going to bring anything innovative and new to the table, at least have everything on par with the competition. That is, if you are planning to be a top contender on the market.

 

Bonus fail – Red Zone – I will never forget the fact that Bioware allowed to have players segregated by the country they live or were born in. They only allowed players in the West to purchase the game initially. This meant the United States, Canada and most (but not all) of Europe (oh and Russia too). Games are a great medium that is (mostly) race, gender and class agnostic. Whoever you are and wherever you live you can sit down and play a game and you would play it the same as any other person out there in the world. In MMOs this is even more so because you would have a chance to meet and communicate with people from different cultures and different continents as if they were right there in your room. Bioware decided to split us up into prime time countries and the rest – the Red Zone. Guild Wars 2 at least let everyone purchase the game while “they had copies”. They stopped sales for everyone once they wanted to stop the pressure on the servers. That is what means being race, gender, country and class agnostic and what games should be all about.

 

The game was not all fail though and that is what makes this fail hurt even more. SWTOR did some things exceptionally well and I think it would only be fair to list them here as well.

 

Story telling – after SWTOR it will be difficult, to say at least, to enjoy storytelling in any other MMO. I tried several MMOs since SWTOR launched and it was hard to “swallow” Guild Wars 2 static dialogues and The Secret World’s lack of voiceovers for all quests. There will probably never again be a game that invests so much into storytelling and its presentation as SWTOR did and that’s a real shame.

Companions - the first “pet” system that provided you with a genuine buddy. Companion stories made you feel connected to some of the companions and their AI wasn’t half bad. Choosing a different companion gave you an option to fine tune your game style more towards survivability or DPS or whatever you like.

Warzones - I believe SWTOR had some of the best PvP arenas out there. Huttball is one of the best designed PvP maps ever (pity some classes had such clear advantage). The fact that more than 50% of SWTOR players actively participate in Warzones speaks for itself.

Classes - I like SWTOR classes. Maybe I am influenced by playing an Assassin most of the time and it was able to provide me with different play styles for a very long time. In any case I think that the classes represented well classic Star Wars prototypes and provided distinctly different ways to play your character based on the build you chose. It was not exactly groundbreaking or anything, but it was not bad

some of the raiding – I loved the fact I could kill a Rancor. I liked the SOA fight when they fixed all the bugs. I liked the Karagga fight. I liked the accessibility of raids so that most players could do them. I hated the puzzle events because they presented a barrier for groups without voice communication. I thought that having so many trash mobs is retarded.

 

--------------------------

 

tell me again why?

[MillionsKNives]

What I don't understand is why they didn't just create their own engine. Yes I understand this involves a lot more work (I have a degree in Computer Science), but it's not as difficult as many people believe, especially when you have an entire team of developers working on it. This guy was able to make a crude version of Nar Shadaa by himself after all.

 

You say that you know what you're talking about and then use the video in the OP as an example. He used the CryTek engine, he didn't build his own. He imported or recreated the mesh and textures from an existing game into the CryTek. Hardly a difficult task.

 

Developing an engine from scratch is easier than people believe? Is that why the vast majority of developers opt to use a pre-built engine instead of building their own? It's not an easy task and is very tricky to do it right, especially designing the low level stuff to be fast and efficient. And still even if they haven't written all of it, their engine has been very heavily modified for their own uses. It wasn't even release worthy when they got it so clearly they intended to implement a lot of it themselves. Or do you think that they haven't put any effort into it since acquiring the code?

[Hazed]

You say that you know what you're talking about and then use the video in the OP as an example. He used the CryTek engine, he didn't build his own. He imported or recreated the mesh and textures from an existing game into the CryTek. Hardly a difficult task.

 

So your saying he cop/pasted assets from one game into a newer engine

 

hmm

[MillionsKNives]

So your saying he cop/pasted assets from one game into a newer engine

 

hmm

 

If you'd like to show your lack of reading comprehension and ability to take things out of context you might be able to use that as an argument for your side, sure. But assuming that the assets are compatible as-is that's the easy part. Assuming that, it would be a relatively easy task of importing all of the meshes and textures from SWTOR into CryENGINE. And then congrats, you've made yourself a generic FPS shooter on any Star Wars planet you wish.

 

Oh, you wanted an MMO instead? Well there goes that idea.

[Hazed]

If you'd like to show your lack of reading comprehension and ability to take things out of context you might be able to use that as an argument for your side, sure. But assuming that the assets are compatible as-is that's the easy part. Assuming that, it would be a relatively easy task of importing all of the meshes and textures from SWTOR into CryENGINE. And then congrats, you've made yourself a generic FPS shooter on any Star Wars planet you wish.

 

Oh, you wanted an MMO instead? Well there goes that idea.

 

or they can use the upgraded hero engine and c/p assets

 

http://www.heroengine.com/

 

yeah I know its too hard for you to accept.. you know the whole concept of "doing" things that are hard for the sake of making a better quality product. I know in your dystopian universe that these things are not possible, but in my world there are actual people with brains who are more than capable of copying and pasting assets into a newer engine.

[Tsillah]

or they can use the upgraded hero engine and c/p assets

 

http://www.heroengine.com/

 

yeah I know its too hard for you to accept.. you know the whole concept of "doing" things that are hard for the sake of making a better quality product. I know in your dystopian universe that these things are not possible, but in my world there are actual people with brains who are more than capable of copying and pasting assets into a newer engine.

 

Too bad you had to spend most of your post talking down to the other guy because this is actually a good point. The Hero2 engine might be a feasible option. Now do mind, there are costs involved. I do not know how solid SWTOR is and how good the projections for them to warrant such an investment.

 

Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's feasible, but the Hero2 engine would be much more sensible than a completely different engine at least.

[MillionsKNives]

or they can use the upgraded hero engine and c/p assets

 

http://www.heroengine.com/

 

yeah I know its too hard for you to accept.. you know the whole concept of "doing" things that are hard for the sake of making a better quality product. I know in your dystopian universe that these things are not possible, but in my world there are actual people with brains who are more than capable of copying and pasting assets into a newer engine.

 

There are people with actual brains that realize that you can't copy-paste a game to a new engine.

[MillionsKNives]

Too bad you had to spend most of your post talking down to the other guy because this is actually a good point. The Hero2 engine might be a feasible option. Now do mind, there are costs involved. I do not know how solid SWTOR is and how good the projections for them to warrant such an investment.

 

Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's feasible, but the Hero2 engine would be much more sensible than a completely different engine at least.

 

They forked the Hero Engine so much that they can't sync down changes from it anymore. That right there says that the real Hero Engine is so different from theirs that they are incompatible. It may be easier than going to a completely different engine but it's still likely going to be more work than it's worth. At this point, considering the stage of the Hero Engine when they forked it, most of the code is going to be their own. It's impossible to say exactly how much work would have to go into merging it with Hero Engine (2) at this point without having access to their code. Anything else is assumption.

[Draksen]

The hero engine is not bad. Really. When you manage to make it work fluid with high details on, it's pretty decent.

Of course it's not "perfect" and I've seen better. Of course you have to be somehow lucky, because even on some high end machines many are experiencing problems.

 

All in all, I like it the way it is. If I'd be able to ask for specific change I'd talk about dynamical things in the engine, like the gravity, affecting jumping distances for instance, or falling mechanics, which dont feel real imho. But nothing that cant be changed within a script file without having to trash the whole engine first...

[mmjarec]

The hero engine is not bad. Really. When you manage to make it work fluid with high details on, it's pretty decent.

Of course it's not "perfect" and I've seen better. Of course you have to be somehow lucky, because even on some high end machines many are experiencing problems.

 

All in all, I like it the way it is. If I'd be able to ask for specific change I'd talk about dynamical things in the engine, like the gravity, affecting jumping distances for instance, or falling mechanics, which dont feel real imho. But nothing that cant be changed within a script file without having to trash the whole engine first...

Really? Not bad? Apparently you habe never had more than 15 ppl onscreen at once

[FriendReferral]

Really? Not bad? Apparently you habe never had more than 15 ppl onscreen at once

This.

 

[chuixupu]

or they can use the upgraded hero engine and c/p assets

 

http://www.heroengine.com/

 

yeah I know its too hard for you to accept.. you know the whole concept of "doing" things that are hard for the sake of making a better quality product. I know in your dystopian universe that these things are not possible, but in my world there are actual people with brains who are more than capable of copying and pasting assets into a newer engine.

 

They can't. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6341289#post6341289

 

We have a team of programmers who work on optimizing both the client and the server, in order to increase performance and the quality of the play experience, increase visual appeal, and reduce downtime and loading time. They have already made significant strides, but many of the improvements they've made aren't as big and splashy as all-new features, and may not be apparent to people running top-end machines.

 

 

 

Our codebase forked from Simutronics codebase quite some time ago - at a certain point, the divergence between code bases is so significant that continuing to merge in updates from a coding partner becomes technically unfeasible.

[Andryah]

Here is the really hilarious part in this ongoing tirade demanding a new engine.

 

I still visit the Rift forums from time to time.. and one of the running rants over there is... wait for it..... "lousy engine optimization"

 

In fact.. a lot of the same nonsense posted here could be a direct copy and paste from other gaming forums like Rifts.

 

 

"Person A: I have a decent machine...it plays every other game without any graphic issues, so why does Rift seem to want to ignore optimizing their game engine? I realize there are supposed to be fixes for this, which I have tried over and over again without any changes."

 

Person B:

I would just like to point out that I hop MMOs fairly regularly, about every 6 months-1 year. and I have seen this quote on every message board for every MMO I have ever played, at least once weekly. EVERY MMO, EVER. I just think it's funny.

 

edit-not saying Rift (or any other MMO) doesn't need optimization, they all do. except maybe wow you can play it on a phone nowadays.

 

Person C: That may be so but for me I have not experienced this type of problem with any other games I play or have played. GW2, EQII, SWTOR....so it appears to me that even though my machine is good enough, the game engine in Rift is not 'playing well with my machine.' I even have lowered my graphics selection while playing and that does not seem to make any difference.

 

Processor: Intel® Core2 Quad CPU Q9550 @ 2.83GHz 2.83GHz

OS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

GCard: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560

RAM: 16GB

source: http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/386489-when-optimization-fixes-coming-wasnt-supposed-come-2-4-a.html

 

Seriously.. every game engine in every gaming forum (except probably WoW) get's the same armchair sidecar chuckwagon drive-bys.

 

Conclusion: Either 1) every game engine used by every MMO sucks.. or .. 2) players are just being whiny coping-challenged attackers of faux-windmills. My money is on #2

[DOHboy]

Here is the really hilarious part in this ongoing tirade demanding a new engine.

 

I still visit the Rift forums from time to time.. and one of the running rants over there is... wait for it..... "lousy engine optimization"

 

In fact.. a lot of the same nonsense posted here could be a direct copy and paste from other gaming forums like Rifts.

 

 

 

source: http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/386489-when-optimization-fixes-coming-wasnt-supposed-come-2-4-a.html

 

Seriously.. every game engine in every gaming forum (except probably WoW) get's the same armchair sidecar chuckwagon drive-bys.

 

Conclusion: Either 1) every game engine used by every MMO sucks.. or .. 2) players are just being whiny coping-challenged attackers of faux-windmills. My money is on #2

 

hey...something we actually cant COPY and PASTE..Game Forums.

[Arkerus]

Here is the really hilarious part in this ongoing tirade demanding a new engine.

 

I still visit the Rift forums from time to time.. and one of the running rants over there is... wait for it..... "lousy engine optimization"

 

In fact.. a lot of the same nonsense posted here could be a direct copy and paste from other gaming forums like Rifts.

 

 

 

source: http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/386489-when-optimization-fixes-coming-wasnt-supposed-come-2-4-a.html

 

Seriously.. every game engine in every gaming forum (except probably WoW) get's the same armchair sidecar chuckwagon drive-bys.

 

Conclusion: Either 1) every game engine used by every MMO sucks.. or .. 2) players are just being whiny coping-challenged attackers of faux-windmills. My money is on #2

 

LOL

 

Seriously.. every game engine in every gaming forum (except probably WoW) get's the same armchair sidecar chuckwagon drive-bys.

 

Andryah, that was hilarious.

[MikeTheDuke]

Wow the direction this is taking. Yes, no doubt one might say that transferring to the CryEngine would make the game look good. BioWare choose to use the HeroEngine for one feature alone (this is a presumption since it is the only thing that I can think of that would make this engine appealing). The live output. Developers, artists etc... can add the content to the game and at the same time it enable the testers and various other people to look at it in engine, live and only seconds after putting it in. This compared with the traditional pipeline models of Add, Compile, Release method for most in game content and assets.

 

I do not doubt that BioWare has pushed the HeroEngine beyond any means it was intended to. And one should understand there is about 3,000,000 active account in SWTOR, there is about 1mill subs the rest are FTP. I know what people might say, I have not seen that many people online at once. They aren't online at once. They across ALL the servers in the US and EU regions.

 

I think the game looks good. One should wander back to Azeroth to see just how UGLY a game can look, the sounds, the animations, it is repetitive and annoying, listening to these tree enemies sound the same as Ogre or Orc enemies. SWTOR has MANY varied animations the game sounds good, it has a wonderful Star Wars feel to it, the worlds are diverse and the area they take up is massive.

 

To change an engine, this is a monumental feat. The Engine will sit nicely below the game code, it has a lot of the processing, but the code uses that engines interface and unless HeroEngine are able to create an Engine on par with the CryEngine in their next release AND not change the interfaces to it, then I do not think we will see it anytime soon.

 

SWTOR has problems, but reading that one persons post about the reason, the straw that broke that proverbial camel shows the fickle nature that is a Star Wars fan. SWTOR is earning money a lot of it. Through either the 1 mill subs, paying 12 a month (Not sure if 12 million a month is much money, anyone?) and the cartel market, I buy stuff on the cartel market, I like it but they need to do more for subscribers. 2.4 is adding that, more ops, which even though FTP players can access it is really sub content since we subs can get access to it at any time.

 

My main concern about the engine is the inconsistent performance. Why is it, I will be walking around the place, getting a nice solid 90fps and then have it drop to 40 or lower. The Imp base (Sky Hook 7) on Makeb when you cross the threshold into the base, WHY does that have such terrible performance. It isn't the only place but it is possibly the most noticeable.

 

Simply making the game look better will NOT make the game better. Implementing a Single Player optimised engine will not make it better. Well CryEngine runs multiplayer, small maps and small numbers of people, little to no NPCs no persistent world other than in the instance.

[willfarlow]

I understand frustrations about performance in the game, but at this point, it kinda is what it is. They aren't going to do anything too too dramatic to it.

Now, if you want to talk about the possibilities of using a different engine, well, why not talk about whatever NEW games are going to be coming out, post-Disney, post-new movies, even? Because everyone knows that EA didn't get an exclusive contract for Star Wars game development for THIS game...they're gonna be getting new stuff on the shelves as soon as they can, ESPECIALLY around the time of the new movies.

I'D be crossing my fingers and hoping for something with KOTOR-style gameplay and quality coming down the pipe....

And for the record, I get frustrated too, at times...but I still like the game. If I didn't, I wouldn't play!

[FlyinSpaghetti]

How is this kid able to present a better Nar Shadaa using Cryengine3?

 

 

Seriously, ***? Get your act together!

 

Someone at bioware just needs to pull the plug and quickly switch engines. Sure you have to pay the cryengine license, but you will at least have a steady stream of students who can easily adapt SWToR into the next generation.

 

 

Yawn...

 

Even if they could be bothered to rewrite the game from the ground up on a new engine (it's not as simple as simply switching engines), Cryengine 3 would be the worst choice for an MMO simply because it's poorly optimized. The fact crytek themselves limit themselves to small maps and 16 players attests to this.

 

The reason for this is because cryengine wasn't designed around resource management and handling more happening on screen at the same time, it was designed around pushing new technologies to the max like tessellation and PoM. It's the total opposite to what an MMO game engine would be designed around.

[Prototypemind]

Is there any mention in this thread or elsewhere about the recent improvements? CZ's lag-fest has been corrected and the graphics have definitely been smoothed out and improved for the better. I only wish I had a top-end PC to truly take advantage of it all, but even with what I'm running now it's a vast step in the right direction.

 

Now to see how 2.4 and the class fixes go. =p Also, they need to fix the clipping on my robe and mask.

[LordArtemis]

Seriously.. every game engine in every gaming forum (except probably WoW).....

 

Nope. Even WoW.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2416192255

[Swalsugmass]

Nope. Even WoW.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2416192255

 

Did you really just link another mmo's url in here? tut tut lol.

[LordArtemis]

Did you really just link another mmo's url in here? tut tut lol.

 

Sorry, just making a point. Virtually every MMO has this problem according to players.

 

Now, for me, some games play better, others do not. SWTORs performance is head and shoulders above games like BF2, Witcher 2 and Metro on my system. It is about equal to games like WoW, EQ2, GW2 and STO.

 

There are games that have better performance than this one. This engine, like almost every engine out there aside from a few single player titles needs some work.

 

MMOs are like that generally speaking.

 

The real concern, IMO is not performance....it is lack of ability to add certain features to the game. That is a concern from my perspective.