Why does this game receive so much hate?

[CosmicKat]

Because people expected the biggest game company ever, making a game based on one of the biggest IP's ever to be something other than Space WoW.

[Ricul]

Blaiming the people for not enjoying the game might not be the right approach to get people to play. But im sure you figured that out already

[Eraan]

This was my first MMO I actually got past level 10 in. All others I tried never really drew me in like this one did. The plot is well written, the full voice overs make ALL the difference as far as making this feel like a living breathing online world I'm being sucked into. PVP is fun what little I have tried

 

So I don't get it. I hated WOW because the plot was confusing, the missions where boring and the combat was a bit too slow to keep me interested. So I tried Tera with its action based combat, and again uninteresting story and boring dialog and missions.

 

I recently bought Final Fantasy 14 since now I know how much fun an MMO can be if you dig deep into it and I love the game. So many things it has done right, but a lot of features from SWTOR where done better than MMO and I was shocked to see FF14 didn't include anything remotely close to them. Like the ability to see what missions party members have even if they aren't shared with you, or shareable missions for that matter, story or otherwise. Travel isn't as easy as SWTOR, the map system in SWTOR is the only one in an MMO that was easy to navigate

 

But yet in that game and all others I play everyone uses SWTOR as the prime example of how bad an MMO can be if done wrong. I don't get it, what exactly has this game done so wrong to become the poster child for "crap mmo"

 

Is there something Im missing? I'll admit to not having done any end game content yet since I focused on having multiple characters just to see the story for each class, is it end game stuff that sucks here? is it the community? or is just this a F2P vs P2P argument and SWTOR catches the flak for being a subscription that "failed" so bad it had to go F2P to get players

 

Because as a free game I thought this one did a good job of going free without becoming "pay to win" unless im missing something. Someone please enlighten me

 

The thing is... I love the game but the sloppy QA makes me angry. I hate the poorly optimised engine and incredible amount of armour/character related mesh, texture, cloth physics and clipping issues. In a game like this it is extremely important for many that their character doesn't look bugged nor their armour. Fixing simple stuff seems to take ages (months) if not years.

[mmjarec]

This was my first MMO I actually got past level 10 in. All others I tried never really drew me in like this one did. The plot is well written, the full voice overs make ALL the difference as far as making this feel like a living breathing online world I'm being sucked into. PVP is fun what little I have tried

 

So I don't get it. I hated WOW because the plot was confusing, the missions where boring and the combat was a bit too slow to keep me interested. So I tried Tera with its action based combat, and again uninteresting story and boring dialog and missions.

 

I recently bought Final Fantasy 14 since now I know how much fun an MMO can be if you dig deep into it and I love the game. So many things it has done right, but a lot of features from SWTOR where done better than MMO and I was shocked to see FF14 didn't include anything remotely close to them. Like the ability to see what missions party members have even if they aren't shared with you, or shareable missions for that matter, story or otherwise. Travel isn't as easy as SWTOR, the map system in SWTOR is the only one in an MMO that was easy to navigate

 

But yet in that game and all others I play everyone uses SWTOR as the prime example of how bad an MMO can be if done wrong. I don't get it, what exactly has this game done so wrong to become the poster child for "crap mmo"

 

Is there something Im missing? I'll admit to not having done any end game content yet since I focused on having multiple characters just to see the story for each class, is it end game stuff that sucks here? is it the community? or is just this a F2P vs P2P argument and SWTOR catches the flak for being a subscription that "failed" so bad it had to go F2P to get players

 

Because as a free game I thought this one did a good job of going free without becoming "pay to win" unless im missing something. Someone please enlighten me

 

Seems like you want validation but i aret gong to find it here. Some a realists and whte rest are fanbois so you get an inholy concergence. Peope are angry necause how tjey are treated no booware and that they trashed what could habe been an excellent game sold out for money and medicority. Ehatever you say about voice iscyour opnim i pefer day and night cycles for immersion moreso than a voice that will get skipped 90% of the time and adds no replay value post the first time

Face it voicpevers are a gimmick

[Malastare]

Others have touched on it, and more importantly: pretty much everyone in this thread is right...

 

Why is there hate? Because SWTOR isn't what it was "promised" to be:

 

 

• SWG players hated that it had no totally open world gameplay.
  
• WoW players hated that it didn't have 80 levels to play through.
  
• KoTOR players hated that your choices didn't change the world and too many quests required multiple players.
  
• Everquest players hated that so much of the game was soloable.
  
• X-Wing players hated that the space mini-game used Starfox mechanics.
  
• Jedi Academy players hated that the combat was so static.
  
• EVE players were upset at how easy it was to get credits.
  
• Role-players were upset that there wasn't specific features to support them.
  
• PvPers were upset that the worlds were designed without much faction mixing.
  
• New MMO players were upset that they were defenseless against PvP geared L50s.
  
• Crafters were upset that there were no ways to customize crafting results.
  
• Nearly everyone was confused by how much the art directors loved shoulder pads.
  

 

 

So, the big problem with SWTOR was that it aimed to high. It built on one of the most popular universes in the world and designed to appeal to a broad audience. With a respected (at the time, at least) studio and a built-in fanbase, the hype raised to epic levels. However, it failed to tailor itself to any particular audience, and unfortunately, the current video game community is more obsessed with tossing fuel on a fire than finding enjoyment where they can.

 

Perhaps it would have done better if it were focused on a narrower style of gameplay, avoided the hype, and let its player base grow more organically. Instead, it was artificially built up so high that no game on the market could possibly hope to meet everyone's expectation. People got bitter, and most people don't spend much time analyzing their own thoughts, so they are unlikely to change their mind once its made. SWTOR has made loads of mistakes, but in my eyes, it hasn't made more than any other MMO. What people saw however, was a game that someone told them was going to be amazing simply because of what it was, and it didn't match up with what they wanted.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Malastare

[Bleeters]

Players were hardly the only ones with highly unrealistic expectations.

[norlof]

What everyone has said is right, but I'll still add mine.

 

For one, its EA. Most gamers HATE EA and anything with an EA sticker is instantly hated on. EA is the big bad company of gaming and known for being a cash hog.

 

Also, the launch was bad. Too many servers, bugs out the wazoo, and a lot of player feedback was ignored or just didn't have any impact. Also, not much to do at endgame, so people got bored and left.

 

And the biggest one of all is just reputation of the game. Gamers especially don't forget games at the start, and since launch sucked, most people won't touch the game again. They hate on it all the time because they had a bad experience with it. Its very hard for a game to get over its bad reputation.

 

Is the game bad now? Hell no. Its a good game now, and lots of fun, but because of a really bad launch it probably won't overcome its horrible reputation until years later, if it does at all.

[Lumpyone]

[*] Nearly everyone was confused by how much the art directors loved shoulder pads.

 

I think most of the reasons were covered, but THIS ^^ is the one which still burns me the most. We are still getting great looking armor pieces with completely horrid shoulder decoration!! Please for the love of the Light Side, do not put shoulder pads on any armor ever again!

[chuixupu]

Players were hardly the only ones with highly unrealistic expectations.

 

They could technically stiill do that...if you count things like daily areas and operation locations.

 

I'm sure the developers had very high expectations for things, but the players expectations versus the developers expectations were rather different.

[Fantazm]

Because people like to moan. Especially on the internet.

[Deathwhitch]

Now. first things first, will precursor this by saying i am not going to defend the game to the extent to say it didnt have issues, lets be honest, the issues provided (too many servers, etc.) are valid problems that the game did have when it launched.

 

That being said, probably the #1 reason that this game receives as much hate as it has is due to the fact that people placed extreme expectations on this game, in reality expectations that no game would have lived up to.

 

The game has received loads of hate simply due to the fact that people were expecting an MMO with everything, on day 1. and when it didnt live up to it (which no MMO will EVER do) people began the bash party, and it really hasnt let up since, as people will always find something else to talk about that they want to be mad about, and if they cant find something current, they will go into the past and find something there.

 

TLDR is the game had some issues of course but unrealistic fan expectations and social media attribute to 95% of the hate this game has received, not the "Bioware lied to us" that most people will throw in the air from time to time.

 

Ahhh so this game is a Duke Nukem Forever of MMO's. Makes sense. I loved DNF as a diehard duke fan, it kept the feel of duke while adding new features not seen in old ones, but it wasn't call of duty or halo so it got hate. Granted 12 years of hype make this game doomed from day one but it got made anyway, point is against all odds they held up to their end of the deal and made the game even when they all reason to give up. Thats respectable, thats loyalty to the gamer and not the market and that is something you RARELY ever see now a days. Like the game or hate it, you can't argue with their love for their fans.

 

I totally forgot about SWG, so all of this is making more sense now. I just hate I can't talk more people into playing it as it is a good game, not perfect but still a good MMO and ultimately the only reason I got into MMO's to begin with. I wondered why FF14 has all the same launch issues as SWTOR but doesnt get the hate, now I know

[CosmicKat]

...

 

I totally forgot about SWG, so all of this is making more sense now. I just hate I can't talk more people into playing it as it is a good game, not perfect but still a good MMO and ultimately the only reason I got into MMO's to begin with. I wondered why FF14 has all the same launch issues as SWTOR but doesnt get the hate, now I know

 

Seriously, I know lots of people who did or do play MMO's rather heavily. Most of the non-WoW players will play anything that is an MMO. I know very, very few of them who tried TOR. My wholly unscientific survey of their opinions of TOR are...

 

About half of them are WoW die-hards who "heard it's just like WoW" so they aren't going to leave WoW for it.

The other half "heard it's just like WoW", and they hate WoW, so they won't bother trying it.

 

The only other person I know who plays TOR is a guy who works at the gas station. He's a console gamer trying his first MMO, and to be fair, he loves it.

[Knewt]

So the game didn't live up to insanely high expectations, and years later ppl still hold a grudge basically? It has nothing to do with the game itself?

The game had a very long and very public development cycle. BW/EA drove too much hype and the Star Wars theme carried certain expectations. In my opinion, here were the biggest problems at release:

 

1. Single-player MMO - too easy to play & advance without interacting with other people (still a problem today).

2. No group/dungeon finder - love it or hate it, games on significantly lower budgets (like Rift) were releasing with this feature when SWTOR was released. BW had 3 months to get it out before the largest group of subs expired. They failed and tons of people unsubbed to return to WoW (like me) or find other games.

3. Too much hype - the very public and long dev cycle created hype that the actual game could not sustain. They had to release with the polish of today's WoW and the amazing story to come close to meeting expectations.

 

BW/EA will never win back the people that hate the game. It is better for BW/EA to focus on people like me. I left SWTOR after 3 months with a very ambivalent attitude towards the game. I returned recently and am enjoying the game. I liked it so much I decided to sub for 60 days and see if I like it long term.

 

Don't worry about the haters...the Internet breeds them like mosquitoes breed in the south. Their hate doesn't impact your love for the game.

[Gomla]

There are quite a few folk who don't "hate" it but are totally indifferent towards it.

 

I know some folk who only like it in small doses (me included). They play for a month or 2 then disappear for half a year or more to come back for another month and then go again.

 

My wife tried it, didn't like it. She's a WoW player and the only thing that will make her leave that game is the servers shutting down.

 

My friends aren't fans of generic hotbar combat MMO's .... which I do agree with a little bit thus why I can never play for longer than a month.

 

Besides the story lines this game has nothing I haven't seen before, in a lot of cases i've seen better (mainly talking crafting here, the crafting in this game is terrible in my opinion).

 

Basically it offers nothing new besides decent class story lines.

 

I do enjoy it, but it will never be a game I can stick with for years or months on end.

[GCasIII]

All of the previously mentioned reasons are true. I'm not going to go over them again. So all of that plus what I will add here:

 

Personally, I feel that it gets so much hate because it was rushed.

Think about it, the prolog and act I are so good, the story is amazing and hooks you, after that...That's it, after that is just, "Oh, this happened go and fix it." meanwhile while you're doing that you have to go get 19 Gungan shebs for some guy who gives you a weapon that's more than capable of killing said Gungans. Now, how does that feel rushed? Because They claimed each story was going to have 200+ hours of game play but in reality it's only 80, tops.

Also, did any one else noticed that as soon as 1313 (Which was cancelled, Thank God! It was going to be another FU II) gained traction this game was pumped out? It was. As soon as the newer game was on the horizon LucasArts (Who sunk almost all their money into this game) pushed for this game to get out and FAST! They needed more money and needed it ASAP, so what did they do? The rushed this game and had it released incomplete-just like KOTOR II (One of my favourite Star Wars games. I love Darth Traya)

 

Summery of that first part: It was rushed, with and strong first part of story but not a good second part, and didn't achieve the 200+ hours of game play.

 

With that being said, the story falls apart, but not only that but that it doesn't always feel Star Wars-y. In KOTOR I felt that everything was Star Wars like, in this game...it does feel too MMO like. And yes, before you chew my head off I know it's an MMO; however, so much of it doesn't feel Star Wars like. The Ratguls (Spelling?) that was annoying. And yes, I know enemies are supposed to respawn, that's how others are to fight them, but it's extremely annoying when I kill a group of 7 guys, go behind a hut, destroy their power generator, only to turn around and find them all back. Another thing that got really annoying.

 

Lastly-and this is more personal than not-I don't enjoy PvP and I feel that this game forces you to PvP.

I do every quest, flash points, space battles and am always just on the level par. Never above. However those who PvP all day end up higher levels really fast. Ergo, to get the edge you have to PvP but not everyone likes PvP and so that's why some people complain.

 

Again, all that was previously said is true and this is my 2 credits worth.

 

[Edit] This is coming from a Subscriber who was following this game since it was announced and has been playing this game on and off since release.

Edited September 19, 2013 by GCasIII
Adding on

[NomadFifteen]

To add my two cents in, I would say it is not hate of the game but of how EA/BW handles the game.

 

1) Test servers where errors are found and posted - repeatedly - and still the bugs are pushed out with the update. Naked PvP comes to mind.

 

2) Bugs that break the game, and it requires the players to fix as the developers ignore all information. Remember update 1.4 and 80+ pages of logs of people who could not play more than 2 hours, and nothing was done by the developers. It took someone posting on the 3 gig switch being turned on to fix it for most of us.

 

3) Utter failure to actually test secondary effects. The current issue where the fix for what they called a 'bug' and everyone else ignored has reset the HK-51 quest for all on it, and deleted the items gathered towards completing the quest. The response given in the dev tracker: Wow, did not know that would happen. We will try and make sure it doesn't happen again in the future.

 

4) In game customer service reps who cut and paste responses that have nothing to do with the question, or outright delete tickets with no response. MT-10.

 

I like the Star Wars universe, and like 60% of SWTOR as set up. If they would actually listen to the player base rather than deride us and tell us to learn to play the game the way they want us to, the game would be fantastic. As it is, I am just hanging around until something else comes along that catches my eye.

[mmjarec]

Others have touched on it, and more importantly: pretty much everyone in this thread is right...

 

Why is there hate? Because SWTOR isn't what it was "promised" to be:

 

• SWG players hated that it had no totally open world gameplay.
  
• WoW players hated that it didn't have 80 levels to play through.
  
• KoTOR players hated that your choices didn't change the world and too many quests required multiple players.
  
• Everquest players hated that so much of the game was soloable.
  
• X-Wing players hated that the space mini-game used Starfox mechanics.
  
• Jedi Academy players hated that the combat was so static.
  
• EVE players were upset at how easy it was to get credits.
  
• Role-players were upset that there wasn't specific features to support them.
  
• PvPers were upset that the worlds were designed without much faction mixing.
  
• New MMO players were upset that they were defenseless against PvP geared L50s.
  
• Crafters were upset that there were no ways to customize crafting results.
  
• Nearly everyone was confused by how much the art directors loved shoulder pads.
  

 

So, the big problem with SWTOR was that it aimed to high. It built on one of the most popular universes in the world and designed to appeal to a broad audience. With a respected (at the time, at least) studio and a built-in fanbase, the hype raised to epic levels. However, it failed to tailor itself to any particular audience, and unfortunately, the current video game community is more obsessed with tossing fuel on a fire than finding enjoyment where they can.

 

Perhaps it would have done better if it were focused on a narrower style of gameplay, avoided the hype, and let its player base grow more organically. Instead, it was artificially built up so high that no game on the market could possibly hope to meet everyone's expectation. People got bitter, and most people don't spend much time analyzing their own thoughts, so they are unlikely to change their mind once its made. SWTOR has made loads of mistakes, but in my eyes, it hasn't made more than any other MMO. What people saw however, was a game that someone told them was going to be amazing simply because of what it was, and it didn't match up with what they wanted.

 

No its nit that they aimed too high its that they took what could have been the best mmo universe and ruined it because they cut corners and sold out too much and let gameplay suffer as long as they could make a buck they dint care about quality and the community. And then theres also the whol constantly lying to us

[Suromir]

So the game didn't live up to insanely high expectations, and years later ppl still hold a grudge basically? It has nothing to do with the game itself?

 

I ask because the only real examples I get are about it going free to play as proof of failure, or that it is "pay to win" which I haven't seen evidence of. Or they quote from the interview wwith the creator of Final Fantasy 14 who compares FF14 to SWTOR, but all he was doing was comparing two "successful franchises with different business models (f2p vs sub)"

 

just trying to learn whats important in an MMO to be considered a good one and if SWTOR was missing something other games had, because I again can't find the fault here aside from its payment options

 

 

please it's not becuase of "insanely high expectations" (sure it's true for some I'm sure..but not the majority by FAR)

 

1. Bugs - a lot still exist from launch.

2. Linearity/lack of replayability - Sure class stories are unique..but 95% of what you're doing is the same thing with there being only 2 different paths that ONLY depends on the side you're on. They wanted the "end-game" to be people rolling up multiple alts to see all the stories multiple times..yet somehow thought giving us such a linear path would float. Guess what, it doesn't.

3. lack of some "basic" MMO features - guild stuff, group finder, etc

4. Failure to deliver on promises - too much to list but being told one thing and given another, told x will work one way then changing it without warning...etc

5. they slapped an $80-200 million dollar game on a $5 unfinished engine and then wonder why there are so many issues

6. Space - it's Star Wars.....think about that for a minute or two. then explain to me how anyone with half a brain cell would think and/or accept the abortion that is what we got would be ok

 

that's enough I think..I can go on if you'd like..NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with "insanely high expectations"...it's basic MMO 101...and why every game that has failed in those very same ways have also failed.

 

------

 

Why does it still go on? Look at the nickel-and-dime shop. Look at the lackluster job they do on items they expect us to pay real cash for (clipping on armor sets...ridiculous sized lightsabers...simple texture swapping) Look at PvP....look at the bugs that get in with each update....look at the "class rep" thing they JUST launched..they're already going back on it for awhile....etc..etc..etc.

 

THAT'S why SWTOR get's so much "hate"....

Edited September 19, 2013 by Suromir

[Lord_Ghaleon]

I don't hate the game. If I did, I wouldn't subscribe. That said there are certainly points about TOR that are utterly frustrating that drive players crazy.

 

- At launch, expectations were too high and everyone touted it as the WoW killer. It came no where close to meeting those expectations. Now expectations seem to be too low as people feel feedback isn't being listened to and it's simply easier to find a new game than deal with disappointment.

 

- Speaking of disappointment - Broken commitments. One example, Collector's Edition players were promised periodic updates exclusive to them. We've received very few (two I think), and they haven't been anything special (yay for pets and some companion customizations?) That feels like a broken commitment, even if they technically added something. As I mentioned above, rather than deal w/ disappointment, many just leave.

 

- Bugs, bugs, bugs. As someone who works in software development and testing, the volume of bugs in this game is simply staggering. I'd be fired in a second if the software I worked on was as unstable as this game. I know many MMOs use there player base as QA, but really, if some basic tests were ran, things like CZ currently being busted/lagtastic or checking that the in game Cartel Coins purchase weren't working should be caught in testing and never go live.

 

- Missing features and content. I'll give them a pass on content. It takes time to build a library of content. Anyone who expected TOR to have as much content at launch as WoW had years into development had unfair expectations. However, there are some key features that this game is still missing. Top of my list is a global character name - MMOs from a decade ago had that. It's insanely useful for finding friends. Instead I have to friend all my friends toons on all my toons. They could have used the Legacy name for it, but chose not to.

 

- Communication to the players hasn't be stellar. I don't understand why issue tickets are closed when they are reported to the dev staff. Seems like it should stay open until it's fixed. Also, if a ticket is submitted and sent to the wrong group (say you send it a mission issue, but it's determined to be a bug) you have to write the ticket a second time, rather than them just fixing the type and forwarding it to where it needs to go. Patches w/o notification - the ROTHC patch wasn't listed on the launcher the day they were adding it (no mention that morning when the downtime started - it was only on the forums, which most players don't read). Came home from work expecting to be able to play for a few hours before the normal patch time and bam, patching. They have gotten better about patch notification though.

 

- Cartel Coins. Too many things in this game push selling Cartel Coins. It's their business, and they are entitled to do what they like, but it not being such an obvious money grab constantly would be nice.

 

It's an OK game if you ask me. They need to make some positive changes to bring players back. I know I've said this before talking w/ my guild, but I really only play TOR because it's Star Wars. If it were any other IP, I'd have left a long time ago.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Lord_Ghaleon

[Dikeinabox]

There wasn't much hate. Might seem like it, but then the millions of subscriptions lost would have led to crashed forums from millions of threads. Huge majority left peaceably and silently.

 

Why?

 

Mostly lack of end game content. #1 cited reason, since I asked people as I wasn't able to try it for myself at the time.

 

Bugs and other such crap are expected and tolerable. But what are you supposed to do when you leveled your char? Stare at it for months on end? the massive loss of subscribers was mostly that.

[funkiestj]

People get angry for different reasons.

 

Hypothetically speaking, BW can cancel your subscription (monthly or 6 month) at any time without refunding you and you have zero recourse. That is not quite true ... you can (hypothetically) beg them to restore your subscription. But even if they decided that they wrongfully cancelled your subscription and restored it it is (hypothetically) possible that they could forget to restore all of the time you have left on your 6 month subscription.

 

Even if you bought $200 of cartel coins they could cancel your account the very next day and there would be nothing you could do but beg them to reinstate your account. That is what I've heard anyways.

 

If such a hypothetical were to actually happen to you I'm sure that with many emails and phone calls and time wasted you could eventually get things straightened out but you will have (hypotheticallyl) wasted lots of time and likely gotten aggravated. It is also highly improbable that BW would make any sort of meaningful apology. If BW support was feeling particularly beneficent they might add 3 days to your subscription for all the trouble they caused you.

 

I have been a subscriber since the game went live and I myself have never had any problem like the hypothetical described but I would recommend against subscribing on the off chance that the hypothetical could occur. I'm looking at switching to preferred status -- you can never be too safe!

 

Perhaps some of the haters have experienced the described hypothetical.

 

Others were given the expectation that BW would implement a Season 1 of rated WZs and then waited for more than a year to no effect. Others are disappointed at the speed with which new endgame content is developed.

 

If you are lucky BW may never give you a reason to hate them. Perhaps there will be peace in the middle east soon too.

 

You are less likely to start hating if you stay free to play or preferred status. Giving money to BW leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

 

Cheers,

--fj

Edited September 19, 2013 by funkiestj

[mmjarec]

Sad when there is such a disproportionate number of things theyve done to lose faith in themselves instead of raise it and promote a thriving forward looking hopeful community

[APCrol]

Every mmorpg receive much hate especially if there is a subscribe option cause subscribers feel like they have some right and they are.

[Red_Cruiser]

It receives hate because despite all the money and the hype and the so-called talent the game is simply unexceptional. It's not bad and it's not good. It's an uninspired and mediocre game with piecemeal classes and an obtusely traditional end game. They literally thought WoW + Star Wars + Story was such an unbeatable team up that they literally had to put 0% additional innovation in to it.

[Fantazm]

Lastly-and this is more personal than not-I don't enjoy PvP and I feel that this game forces you to PvP.

I do every quest, flash points, space battles and am always just on the level par. Never above. However those who PvP all day end up higher levels really fast. Ergo, to get the edge you have to PvP but not everyone likes PvP and so that's why some people complain.

 

I'm not quite sure what exactly, but you're doing something or other wrong here.

 

I've got 9 characters, 8 of them are level 50 or above (been here since the start) and I've PVP'd on I think 3 of them. One because it was new and I tried it out, one because I wanted the level 40 jedi pvp armour and the other because he started on a pvp server. Other than that the rest have never even set foot in a warzone and I've never had any issues levelling at all and have always been a case of getting overlevelled early and staying there. Combined with the new boosts and it's now even easier. My Shadow did no pvp, no flashpoints, no space and still completed Corellia at level 53.