Ahhh so this game is a Duke Nukem Forever of MMO's. Makes sense. I loved DNF as a diehard duke fan, it kept the feel of duke while adding new features not seen in old ones, but it wasn't call of duty or halo so it got hate. Granted 12 years of hype make this game doomed from day one but it got made anyway, point is against all odds they held up to their end of the deal and made the game even when they all reason to give up. Thats respectable, thats loyalty to the gamer and not the market and that is something you RARELY ever see now a days. Like the game or hate it, you can't argue with their love for their fans. I totally forgot about SWG, so all of this is making more sense now. I just hate I can't talk more people into playing it as it is a good game, not perfect but still a good MMO and ultimately the only reason I got into MMO's to begin with. I wondered why FF14 has all the same launch issues as SWTOR but doesnt get the hate, now I know

I understand now, but I dont get the free pass FF14 is getting so to speak, I never played the first version but know it was so bad the game was canceled and had to be remade into the new game I bought this go round, and it is off to a pretty sh**y start with not enough servers, no transfer option in site, lots of simple little features that should be common sense missing from day one and are slowly being added (like a blacklist option or auto logout for AFK) their list of problems continues and is still being addressed slowly In other words it sounds like the two games have alot in common as far as launch goes, but when I bring that up to the people who who say things like "still better than SWTOR lol" they seem to "understand" that no launch and say to "give it time" idk just urks me when I see that. I like both games, and know each one has its pros and cons, but why should we have to pick ONE mmo :-/ its as pointless an argument as the "console wars" other gamers get into. I own an xbox and a ps3, and still prefer my PC. But I understand I have the option to play whatever I want on any system I want, this whole company loyalty thing does nothing for the consumer or the industry, its stupid. Im a gamer, I play good games no matter what system, os, or device they appear on

Still don't get it, I mean these games change as time passes to please the gamers or become better, few games of any other genre' do this any if at all. If thats really the only reason people are still against this game, so long after its launch, then thats not a reason its an excuse, and a pretty sh**y one at that Guess that explains that then, not really the answer I was looking for (guess I expected more, ironic huh) but glad to hear I wasn't just a MMO noob who was missing something major

So the game didn't live up to insanely high expectations, and years later ppl still hold a grudge basically? It has nothing to do with the game itself? I ask because the only real examples I get are about it going free to play as proof of failure, or that it is "pay to win" which I haven't seen evidence of. Or they quote from the interview wwith the creator of Final Fantasy 14 who compares FF14 to SWTOR, but all he was doing was comparing two "successful franchises with different business models (f2p vs sub)" just trying to learn whats important in an MMO to be considered a good one and if SWTOR was missing something other games had, because I again can't find the fault here aside from its payment options

This was my first MMO I actually got past level 10 in. All others I tried never really drew me in like this one did. The plot is well written, the full voice overs make ALL the difference as far as making this feel like a living breathing online world I'm being sucked into. PVP is fun what little I have tried So I don't get it. I hated WOW because the plot was confusing, the missions where boring and the combat was a bit too slow to keep me interested. So I tried Tera with its action based combat, and again uninteresting story and boring dialog and missions. I recently bought Final Fantasy 14 since now I know how much fun an MMO can be if you dig deep into it and I love the game. So many things it has done right, but a lot of features from SWTOR where done better than MMO and I was shocked to see FF14 didn't include anything remotely close to them. Like the ability to see what missions party members have even if they aren't shared with you, or shareable missions for that matter, story or otherwise. Travel isn't as easy as SWTOR, the map system in SWTOR is the only one in an MMO that was easy to navigate But yet in that game and all others I play everyone uses SWTOR as the prime example of how bad an MMO can be if done wrong. I don't get it, what exactly has this game done so wrong to become the poster child for "crap mmo" Is there something Im missing? I'll admit to not having done any end game content yet since I focused on having multiple characters just to see the story for each class, is it end game stuff that sucks here? is it the community? or is just this a F2P vs P2P argument and SWTOR catches the flak for being a subscription that "failed" so bad it had to go F2P to get players Because as a free game I thought this one did a good job of going free without becoming "pay to win" unless im missing something. Someone please enlighten me