Arena Deathmatch: A regstar's perspective.

[Raazmir]

So, after working a long shift at work, I come home and am able to browse the announcements on this a little more thoroughly and some concerns have come to light for me. First and foremost, it's about time they did SOMETHING new with pvp...granted something as simple as 1-5 comms per open world kill would have done a lot more IMO but moving on.

 

1. I don't think they quite realize what they're doing by having the TDM 4v4 maps go into standard rotation. I say this from a community of the game perspective. You simply cannot hide the derp when there are only 3 other members of your team, and while some may claim that's a good thing, I can't help but imagine that it's going to make the environment a nastier place. Whatever their rules against calling people out on the boards might be.

 

2. Smaller numbers are going to exacerbate balance issues. In the same way you can't hide the derp, you can't hide the subtle, or not so subtle performance differences between classes in a 4v4 situation at all. Literally the ONLY thing this does is toss everything up in the air until the playerbase figures out which degenerate combo is the most mathematically optimal comp and everyone starts using it. Even class rebalancing, however well intentioned does the exact same thing when dealing with small groups.

 

3. Taking 2 into account, certain classes, that may have had some use in various maps in regs are going to be less desireable with TDM 4v4 entering standard rotation, which is only going to serve to choke off reasonable testing and experimentation. There's going to be a lot less chance of someone stumbling across some spec or strategy with an underperforming class that boosts them into viable, when they've all been shelved due to 1 and 2.

 

4. I'll be frank, I like objective based pvp, and dislike TDM style competition in games where there are classes and talent trees, and every toon isnt on equal mathematical footing. Your lucky crit that is just big enough to finish someone before the massive heal lands is not a sign of your personal ability, its just rolling high.

 

 

 

 

All that said i'm certain this is going to appeal to a wider variety of the playerbase, for a time at least, until the best comps are shaken out by the playerbase and new calls to nerf are sounded.

[TheHybris]

 

2. Smaller numbers are going to exacerbate balance issues. In the same way you can't hide the derp, you can't hide the subtle, or not so subtle performance differences between classes in a 4v4 situation at all. Literally the ONLY thing this does is toss everything up in the air until the playerbase figures out which degenerate combo is the most mathematically optimal comp and everyone starts using it. Even class rebalancing, however well intentioned does the exact same thing when dealing with small groups.

 

^ This.

[Gren-Aluren]

Not really. Smaller numbers equal greater balance. The issue with 8v8 is that there can be multiples of a single class or spec. Every class has a counter or combos well with another class. It's going to be much easier for Bioware to tweak balance for 4v4.

[Raazmir]

Not really. Smaller numbers equal greater balance. The issue with 8v8 is that there can be multiples of a single class or spec. Every class has a counter or combos well with another class. It's going to be much easier for Bioware to tweak balance for 4v4.

 

I'm not sure that i can buy that , it didn't prove true with wow arenas at all.

[mfourcustom]

2.4 arena comp

 

2 Infltration/deception shadow/sins

1 jug/guardian tank

1 op healer.

 

gg no re.

[Zhaker]

Well TDM was already "half" implemented on Ancient Hypergates such that I am going to see less WZ with objectives because people are too freaking lazy to try to win through objectives but instead through pure force of DPS.

 

Because pressing random buttons is the *******s. And the bads will be even BADDER than before. I hope some matchmaking design for solo TDM will be implemented well or else PvP forums is really going to be the QQ forums.

[ChaoticDynamite]

2.4 #WINALLDAY Group Comp

 

1. Vanguard Dps

2. Scoundrel Dps

3. Shadow Tank

4. Commando Heals

 

Lets go! #WINALLDAYCOMP

[mfourcustom]

2.4 #WINALLDAY Group Comp

 

1. Vanguard Dps

2. Scoundrel Dps

3. Shadow Tank

4. Commando Heals

 

Lets go! #WINALLDAYCOMP

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Xeraz]

2.4 #WINALLDAY Group Comp

 

1. Vanguard Dps

2. Scoundrel Dps

3. Shadow Tank

4. Commando Heals

 

Lets go! #WINALLDAYCOMP

 

Not sure if serious...

[glocklB]

2.4 arena comp

 

2 Infltration/deception shadow/sins

1 jug/guardian tank

1 op healer.

 

gg no re.

 

I'm pretty sure it will be possible to go

3 deception + 1 op healer

 

since atm I doubt they will restrict a shadow speced dps to queue as a tank.

 

Plus if I read correct there are no role restrictions for ranked arenas, thus you might be able even to go 4 deceptions if you want. Not saying it's better then 3 + 1 healer, but it's probably possible

[HuntersPoint]

hello stunlocking strat, looking mighty fine.

[Evolixe]

You can't stack classes and your role is determined by your spec, which you can't change once in the queue.

[OldSpiceSwag]

You can't stack classes and your role is determined by your spec, which you can't change once in the queue.

 

you can stack classes

[Evolixe]

you can stack classes

 

We'll yeah if they have different specs. You can't queue 4 healer, 4 tanks, 2 healers 2 tanks.. Just 1 healer, 1 tank and 2 dps. And I doubt they let in double specs. So both of your dps need to be atleast in different specs.

[ceelaniri]

You can't stack classes and your role is determined by your spec, which you can't change once in the queue.

 

No one knows so far how Hybrids spec are considered though.

 

That will be interesting.

[shyroman]

We'll yeah if they have different specs. You can't queue 4 healer, 4 tanks, 2 healers 2 tanks.. Just 1 healer, 1 tank and 2 dps. And I doubt they let in double specs. So both of your dps need to be atleast in different specs.

 

If you queue as a group, you can use whatever comp you want.

Edited August 15, 2013 by shyroman

[shyroman]

No one knows so far how Hybrids spec are considered though.

 

That will be interesting.

 

Whatever spec has the most points put into it, a spec with equal points in a tank/heal and dps trees will be considered a dps

Edited August 15, 2013 by shyroman

[ManiacDavis]

Since there is no matchmaking in regs, it will ultimately come down to skilled players beating unskilled players. I agree that ranked will exacerbate class balance issues, but for a regstar, arenas wont change anything.

[Xanas]

Loved arenas in WoW and the classes where not even close to balance mate... Give it a chance... I was playing a very bad combo with a friend in 2v2 arenas. We were not up in the rank and there were some combos that we could not do **** about... Still loved them.

 

All I can say OP is give it a chance and see if you like it before bashing it.

[TheFXedits]

I'm pretty sure it will be possible to go

3 deception + 1 op healer

 

since atm I doubt they will restrict a shadow speced dps to queue as a tank.

 

Plus if I read correct there are no role restrictions for ranked arenas, thus you might be able even to go 4 deceptions if you want. Not saying it's better then 3 + 1 healer, but it's probably possible

 

"Group Ranked Arenas will still have matchmaking based off of rating but role parity will not be a requirement."

[Raazmir]

Since there is no matchmaking in regs, it will ultimately come down to skilled players beating unskilled players. I agree that ranked will exacerbate class balance issues, but for a regstar, arenas wont change anything.

 

That might be true if they also didn't weave the 4v4 arenas into regs. Say for example class X turns out to be unplayably bad in arenas due to the format(and there is usually one that IS unplayably bad in that format). Now you've got a significantly increased chance of falling into matches that your class/spec doesn't have the tools to handle.

[islander]

No one knows so far how Hybrids spec are considered though.

 

That will be interesting.

 

I thought Alex said yesterday that it judges you based on how many points you have in the trees. Tree with the msot points gets the tag, with DPS the default.

 

So hypothetically, you could go 23-18 in the sorc tree, be considered heals.

Not sure I'm a fan of this, though, especially for solo ranked. it's one thing if you group as 4 and you all now going in that you have a healer who's part DPS.

[Pyka]

1 smash!

2 smash!!

3 smash!!!

4 smash!!!!

 

grouped up opposing team all dead in 1 smash, gg!

[foxmob]

Since there is no matchmaking in regs, it will ultimately come down to skilled players beating unskilled players. I agree that ranked will exacerbate class balance issues, but for a regstar, arenas wont change anything.

that's not true. a player who doesn't know how to milk the max output for his class (whatever the class/role) can still play a vital, positive role on an objective-based map. in straight TDM, he is worthless, nothing but a handicap. for example, I'm just terrible on my scrapper. really...really bad. I only play him while farming mats and making nades. but I do have a head on my shoulders. I can node guard, delay, call out. all very useful things that, in regs, make him a positive contributor to the team, win or lose. TDM? not so much. VS and AHG were defacto TDM maps, but I could still be effective as a safety.

 

now I know. I know. I should lose. I'm worse than my opponents. etc. etc. I don't dispute that...in a TDM environment. fact of the matter is my scrapper was actively contributing to victory on the objective-driven maps. furthermore, afaik, arenas were never the first and main form of pvp. even in fps, the home of TDM, there are objective-driven maps such as capture the flag.

 

you have said before that many of the objective driven WZ maps are fatally flawed. and I can buy that. what I can't buy is that eliminating objectives from rated and forcing regs to essentially (although not literally) backfill for reg arenas is a remotely good idea.

 

edit: not all of this is directed to the quote, of course. just used it as a springboard.

Edited August 20, 2013 by foxmob

[DarthBloodloss]

I have noticed a lot of people raving about how good AoE is in arenas.

 

Is everyone just stacking on each other and standing still? How is AoE so much better than in normal WZs?