Guardian PVP Spec

[Purgo]

Sounds like I will have to test it out. I'm not sure about the idea of doing focus but using the defense form...isn't it tough to build focus?

[Purgo]

31 points in either focus or vig, supplement from there and stay in soresu. I would strongly advise, for leveling or pvp, steering clear of anything but the first tier in shield, and even then only if it fits the skills your other talent points drive.

 

I'm parroting myself over and over, but the shield tree is not good. From a defensive standpoint, from the ENTIRE tree you can get 12% defense and blade barrier... all while offering nothing significant in terms of an offense.

 

At 50, 31 points in focus is my new love. Stay in Soresu for higher mitigation and shield chance, and force sweep people into oblivion.

 

This really intrigues me...I might have to try it out. Would you recommend it for a lvl 38?

[Purgo]

@Drakks, Can you give your build?

[Crowingzero]

For a Focus build, you can't get both Force Exhaustion and Unremitting.

 

I'm still torn over which of those is better.

[Kezrik]

From my experience with PvP (100 wz's), spending 12 points in the Vigilance tree to get 2 points into Unremitting is critical. This skill prevents the target I just lept onto (the reason I play Jedi is because of leap) to not CC me to death. At least half the time after I leap on someone, they blow their CC cooldown and it does...nothing. Their allies standing around toss their grenades and also try to stun. They waste a precious ability, the time, and energy/focus/whatever and accomplish nothing. This gives me a great edge at the beginning of the battle and many of them are unsure as to exactly how to react since they are used to just brushing people back or stunning them and then moving to step B of their plan.

 

This is much better than the stun (Force Clap) because it doesn't build resolve, and while they are stunned they are just reviewing which CC is available and be mashing that key, so as soon as it ends you'll be snared, stunned, something.

 

Plus the fact that it is not on a cooldown, it just happens with each leap naturally, it's something less to worry about or assign a hotkey for. I think it's great, and though I haven't used any of the 31 point abilities, I would classify it as being better for my goal which is to survive and cause havoc and help allies rather than be a killing machine. I will be pairing this with Warding Call and probably go up to Hilt Strike for the stun if I find it useful enough.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frhfzMbozZhGM0MZh.1

[Purgo]

From my experience with PvP (100 wz's), spending 12 points in the Vigilance tree to get 2 points into Unremitting is critical. This skill prevents the target I just lept onto (the reason I play Jedi is because of leap) to not CC me to death. At least half the time after I leap on someone, they blow their CC cooldown and it does...nothing. Their allies standing around toss their grenades and also try to stun. They waste a precious ability, the time, and energy/focus/whatever and accomplish nothing. This gives me a great edge at the beginning of the battle and many of them are unsure as to exactly how to react since they are used to just brushing people back or stunning them and then moving to step B of their plan.

 

This is much better than the stun (Force Clap) because it doesn't build resolve, and while they are stunned they are just reviewing which CC is available and be mashing that key, so as soon as it ends you'll be snared, stunned, something.

 

Plus the fact that it is not on a cooldown, it just happens with each leap naturally, it's something less to worry about or assign a hotkey for. I think it's great, and though I haven't used any of the 31 point abilities, I would classify it as being better for my goal which is to survive and cause havoc and help allies rather than be a killing machine. I will be pairing this with Warding Call and probably go up to Hilt Strike for the stun if I find it useful enough.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frhfzMbozZhGM0MZh.1

 

I don't know if I agree that unremitting is all that critical...

[Carousel_t]

I don't know if I agree that unremitting is all that critical...

 

yes it is.

[ZoreWon]

MonkeyG, can you clarify please.

 

"I found myself killing mine first every time. This isn’t really a good measurement but it’s kind of all we have at this point. I was on the Assassin which has the lowest hit points, but we also had some of our other DPS on them"

 

You had the lowest HP mob, by how much?

 

You had other DPS from your team killing the same mob you were fighting?

 

 

Your blog is called guard this but you are dps spec.

 

So why dps with a guardian instead of a Sent. What do you bring to the table that could not be better filled by a true dps class?

 

Why not just roll a Sent since you are relegated to the DPS role?

 

I read your blog all the time and not trying to bash just trying to understand.

[VinceVega]

For PvP: Shield Generator or Focus Offhand?

[Purgo]

I've heard you should use a shield but I am not certain.

[Zarthorn]

yes it is.

 

Nah, you'll get a full resilence bar really quickly if Focus specced because you'll get CC spammed from that first Sweep crit and can happily break it with your CC breaker.

 

Having tried Vigil and Focus, I'd say go with this one

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#5000MZhMRZGr0rddRdhR.1

 

This allows you to:

 

1. Fight in Soresu stance and still have good damage

2. Be more survivable thanks to not relying on Shien or Shi Cho

3. Have exceptional burst in your sweep stack up as well as having some pretty decent dps outside of sweep stacking.

4. Lower reliance on strike thanks to improved combat focus, victory rush, saber throw cooldown decrease, etc.

5. Much Much harder to kite due to having two Gap closers and two Slows, one of which builds stacks for your sweep crit.

6. 6% extra strength for min/maxers since every extra point of strength adds up.

 

The only things i miss from Vigilance are Overhead Slash and Free of cost force sweep, but the pros far outweigh the cons.

 

Edit: To add always use a shield generator, the mitigation does help.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Zarthorn

[Purgo]

Nah, you'll get a full resilence bar really quickly if Focus specced because you'll get CC spammed from that first Sweep crit and can happily break it with your CC breaker.

 

Having tried Vigil and Focus, I'd say go with this one

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#5000MZhMRZGr0rddRdhR.1

 

This allows you to:

 

1. Fight in Soresu stance and still have good damage

2. Be more survivable thanks to not relying on Shien or Shi Cho

3. Have exceptional burst in your sweep stack up as well as having some pretty decent dps outside of sweep stacking.

4. Lower reliance on strike thanks to improved combat focus, victory rush, saber throw cooldown decrease, etc.

5. Much Much harder to kite due to having two Gap closers and two Slows, one of which builds stacks for your sweep crit.

6. 6% extra strength for min/maxers since every extra point of strength adds up.

 

The only things i miss from Vigilance are Overhead Slash and Free of cost force sweep, but the pros far outweigh the cons.

 

Edit: To add always use a shield generator, the mitigation does help.

 

I'm going to try this build asap. How is it for leveling, only lvl 40 currently.

[dbbullock]

Currently running a 7/27/7 build built around mobility and damage. I run Shien form and play aggressively. I usually don't have many issues with rage in fights, and am actually able to use Vicious Slash very often when Impale is on cooldown. Saving rage on this build simply isn't worth it - you get pretty good rage generation, naturally, in Shien form.

 

Now, obviously I don't have guard, but it's not really necessary for peeling, etc. Well targeted and well timed Taunt and Challenging Shouts are all you need to keep your teammates alive, and the combination of Force Choke, Force Push, an AoE snare, Intercede and Intimidating Roar provide more than enough peel in any situation that would actually be winnable. Guard is great for getting your three or four defense medals more easily, but really isn't necessary if you're paying attention.

 

The build, even though it isn't the FOTM Focus/Rage that Nyan made obscenely popular, still does incredible damage throughout a warzone, and can still do incredible burst by itself. Now, you wont be critting 5 people for 3k+ at the same time, but you can at least take solace in the fact that you can actually do damage outside of Force Sweep/Smash. My VS consistently crits for 1900+ with a 40% or higher crit chance. I've had Impale's crit for 3500+. Force Scream consistently crits for 2200-2800. Smash still does great damage as well, it's just not a guaranteed crit. With intelligent use of Relic's, I've three shot lowbies with 4500+ Impales, immediately followed by 4k+ Force Screams, immediately followed by 3k+ VS or VT. I reliably crit level 50, GEARED Operative's for 2500+ with Force Scream.

 

The end of a full-length warzone will often see me around 225k damage, 15k protection (I use taunts primarily only when necessary) and anywhere from 8 to 11 medals. My best warzone so far saw me at 295k damage, 12 medals and probably 20k or so protection in a Huttball win.

 

Another benefit to this build is that you don't rely on any single ability to do your damage for you, like you do with the Rage/Focus build. If I miss an ability, it's no big loss. If a Rage Jugg misses Sweep, he's probably going to die without dropping his opponent to 60%. It's also substantially easier on micro-management and buff-management; I don't need to ever make sure I have 4 stacks of Shockwave before I use Smash, I just attack. I don't need to use Force Choke to get stacks up, or wait on the cooldown of Force Crush. I can switch targets entirely at my leisure under any circumstance and not miss out. I can go full offensive and then full defensive and back with no slowdown in damage. I never have to rely on a cooldown to be up to set up burst. I can effectively watch the action and respond to what's happening as opposed to watching my buff bar.

 

I will eventually try a slightly modified build going 31 deep into Vengeance to see if Shatter is actually worth it now (the last time I was Vengeance, around level 40, it was HORRIBLE damage for the huge rage cost and felt clunky with the dot effect preventing another application of the ability, even though it was off cooldown), but for now I'll be sticking with my Vengeance build. It works, it's fun, it's very effective, and I think it catches some people off guard in warzones.

 

Quick notes of interest: I'm in full Champion gear, except for the Lightsaber and Gloves (though I have expertise enhancements from the lower-level PvP gear in both slots, as well as the epic 23 Might Hilt in my saber for damage, it's actually a sidegrade/upgrade compared to the Centurion saber). I have 24.96 crit with self-buffs, 15.5k hp, and slightly over 10% expertise.

 

This build reminds me a lot of oldschool MS warriors in WoW. I should note, this build doesn't have reliable enough burst to solo down a healer, though I don't think any Jugg build can currently drop a healer given the current state of our interrupt simply not working...

 

 

Here's the build in question, and I apologize ahead of time for the Sith side lingo and tree.

http://knotor.com/skills#Ag8HGweqy9oyQklaaXN5iZKasrrL07rL0gAA

[Mordarion]

Okay I am Lvl 50 with valor 24. I have looked and looked at all the builds and respecced 4 times just to try some things out. Here are a few thoughts...

 

I really really think the Force Sweeps maxxed out is strong.

I also really like Unremittinmg and max DPS.

 

My question then is has anyone tried out a hybrid with about 20 points in each and including Overhead Slash and Unremitting in Vigilance with Force Sweep maxxed out?

[JPThunda]

Trying a hybrid spec like that is not a bad idea. Not a bad idea at all.

 

Maybe something like this, favoring Shien form. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500ZIbMoruzzZur0rdbR.1

 

Or a spec like this, favoring Soresu. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500ZhGr0rhzzZur0rdbR.1

 

I think I'm going to give that a try. The lack of Force Rush, Commanding Awe, and Protector from my usual Vigilance build has me concerned for survivability's sake, but running in Soresu may offset that, but lead to focus problems. And on the focus side, singularity may be difficult to build without force exhaustion.

 

Definitely merits thought, though.

Edited January 9, 2012 by JPThunda

[Phedias]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500cZhMbZGr0rddRdhR.1

 

My soresu focus build for pvp.

I am low level so i dont know if its any good at endgame.

It gives full power force sweep,soresu defence,and some focus building every time i ve been stuned.

Shi-Cho form abilities excluted from this focus tree.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Phedias

[bamsmacked]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think that the imobilize/interrupt from force leap applies to players, so taking stagger uses 2 points better used elsewhere.

 

Personnally, I think going deep into focus misses out on too many of the guardian's PVP talents, so that's not the direction I would take. I would prefer something more like MonkeyGenius is suggesting, except I would dive into tier 5 of defense to get those talents instead of going deeper into vigilance.

 

Yes it does apply to players.

[Purgo]

Yes it does apply to players.

 

Are you sure? I have heard it doesn't

[Drakks]

And on the focus side, singularity may be difficult to build without force exhaustion.

 

For the life of me I don't understand this.. of course it will be difficult. You have one ability on a 50 second CD that can generate singularity.

 

In pvp I can rarely get statis for full effect without someone else thwacking me.

[Purgo]

For the life of me I don't understand this.. of course it will be difficult. You have one ability on a 50 second CD that can generate singularity.

 

In pvp I can rarely get statis for full effect without someone else thwacking me.

 

That's the only thing holding me back from trying Focus build

[timidobserver]

anyone not going focus for the sweeps is bad. jeez guys its 3k crits to EVERYONE in a 6 meter range every 6 seconds...

 

not a better build atm for pvp, anyone saying otherwise is just straight trollin

 

This post is correct mostly. You can make other builds that pump out similar or even greater damage with vigilance, but focus is the best build for helping your group. Nothing makes defending or taking a node easier than having a good focus spec tearing into everyone in his general area other than maybe someone heavy in defense.

 

Winning and helping the group aside, there are plenty of great vigilance builds out there that can pump out a ton of damage. However, in terms of helping the group win a build heavy in defense or focus is probably the best bet. This is just my opinion though.

 

 

I think I'm going to give that a try. The lack of Force Rush, Commanding Awe, and Protector from my usual Vigilance build has me concerned for survivability's sake, but running in Soresu may offset that, but lead to focus problems. And on the focus side, singularity may be difficult to build without force exhaustion.

 

In focus/rage, force exhaustion/force crush is your bread and better. It is pretty pointless to go that far into the tree without getting it. Literally, I am not even switching to focus spec until I have enough points to get force exhaustion. Relying on stasis for your auto crit just doesn't work.

Edited January 12, 2012 by timidobserver

[CTcheky]

For the soresu sweet bomber, what stuff we should pick, the def one or dmg?

Thx for the answer guys:)

[Drakks]

That's the only thing holding me back from trying Focus build

 

It's absolutely fantastic with exhaustion.

[Stncold]

For a Focus build, you can't get both Force Exhaustion and Unremitting.

 

I'm still torn over which of those is better.

 

 

Unremitting. It's not even a contest. It's the most effective method in the game of getting somebody to waste their CC, which can be huge if you utilize it properly, especially if you are the ball carrier or are defending a teammate trying to cap a door/turret.

 

It's the reason why if i have the ball and I have a choice between leaping to a friendly or an enemy who are both sitting on a ramp, I will pick the enemy almost every time. It's hilarious when you leap into a crowd of enemies with the ball and all of the Consulars/Inquisitors will instantly use Force Wave/Overload and completely waste it.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Stncold

[-Corso-]

I´m lvl 50 with 23 valor, I´m taking the tank set for pvp, because usually I go with a healer. Do you think that in my situation the set of tank is the best option?

 

Sorry for my poor english.