Seems like Capuchin's making my points for me on the survivability front. Focus doesn't hold a candle to the sheer flat damage reduction generated in a Vigilance build. The difference is between 4-7% constant damage reduction, in addition to 2 sources of 20% damage reduction, rounding the in-combat effective damage reduction to 24-27% difference. That's a lot of damage that you're not taking. As far as damage goes, there's no denying that Focus has higher burst. It does in 1 GCD what we do in 2 GCD's........after all the set-up for a fully loaded Force Sweep. I found the Focus tree to be a one-trick pony. Exhaust -> Sweep, Stasis -> Sweep, Slash is gap filler, and poor filler at that. In Vigilance you not only have more abilities hitting hard, admittedly not as hard as a loaded Sweep, but you also have the bonus of hitting Elemental damage which makes a world of difference against a hard target like a Bounty Hunter. As far as being beholden to crit chance, we have a guaranteed crit on Bladestorm and Dispatch, and 33% crit is not exactly difficult to obtain for your other abilities, especially with lovely on-demand relics. On the utility front, Vigilance outstrips Focus easily. The added utility from the multiple DoT's alone, triple that of Focus, and it is much easier for Vigilance to take a spammable, no-cost, AoE slow without sacrificing any damage talents. In terms of Mobility, Unremitting and Zealous Leap perform in the same capacity, but here it is Focus that needs 2 GCD's where Vigilance needs 1 GCD, assuming Force Leap was used and enemy CC was applied. So no, very simply put, Vigilance is NOT inferior to Focus. They are two very different animals. Focus does much more burst less often with marginally less survivability, Vigilance does less burst more often with much more survivability and added utility. For my playstyle, and for that of others, Vigilance is more engaging, more enjoyable, and more effective. Maybe Focus works better for you, and that's fine, but it doesn't make Vigilance a bad or non-viable spec by ANY stretch of the imagination. @VertisReaper, I didn't know that still worked, nice little trick. And Bob, that spec looks just fine to me. I put the point in accuracy for the extra reduced defenses, but it's really a moot point, there's nowhere spectacular to put it, so in that spot it works just as well if not better. I like it.

@JackMinn, I'm glad the spec is working out so well for you like it does for me. @Mase_Yevon, Feel free to hit me up anytime. Name's Jaeren, if I didn't say so in the 1st post. @Angof & VertisReaper, It's entirely a matter of preference and playstyle. I've found the AoE slow to be invaluable in fights when someone attempts to kite or LoS you, but if you find yourself using it only sparingly then, by all means, spend the points in the way you find most fitting. I'm glad we managed to get through the vitriol and have some meaningful discussions about the spec and the pro's/cons. Good stuff.

@BobTheTeepo; I like that build, but my only concern is the lack of the Solidified Force talent making Freezing Force cost a full 2 focus. I, personally, prefer to have it on hand to stop people attempting to kite or pillar hump, but that's a matter of playstyle and personal preference. And I like Master Focus and Insight, my only sticking point there is that the most often used Force attack, Bladestorm, should already have a near-100% crit chance courtesy of Force Rush, so it only really applies to Force Push and Force Stasis, which are situational, and Force Sweep. Given that, I don't really feel like the 3 talent points are best spent there. @knowitall(), I find in this build that Momentum is absolutely crucial. The 4 free focus it amounts to makes a huge difference and allows for a much more significant alpha strike on your opening force leap, letting you use all 3 of your big abilities in rapid succession right out of the gate. @Mig-go, You hit the nail on the head! It makes Master Strike 100% viable in those situations where, otherwise, you would miss out on the last hit. Quite a nice bit of extra, and focus free, damage. @JackMinn & Ichibukaka, I'm glad you guys gave the spec a shot and that it worked out so well for you. Guys like you are the reason I posted this. Glad you're enjoying it! And yes, Chickdigger, this is purely a PVP build, I wouldn't dream of going without Shien in a PVE setting.

Thanks for the encouragement Bob, good to know someone out there gets where I'm coming from.

Sorry you've had bad experiences with the tree, but no need to go spreading misinformation to steer people into the pigeonholed meta of Focus or nothing. It's a perfectly viable tree in a PVP setting, and as I've acquired better gear I've only seen the numbers go higher.

@jasonpm, I answered your question in the post directly above your 2nd post. The DoTs add a lot of utility for keeping people off points and fighting classes with stealth, and Plasma Brand is not as bad as people make it out to be. Additionally, they're all Elemental damage, and so they bypass some defenses completely, including the main hit of Plasma Brand. As far as Insight goes in the Focus tree, it's really not necessary because your primary force attack, Bladestorm, already has near-100% chance to crit from Force Rush, which should always be up. Two of the others, Stasis and Push, are situation and used for placement and interrupts, not so much damage. So the only force attack that would gain an appreciable benefit would be Force Sweep. If that's your preference, go for it in lieu of stagger and snag the 32nd point from Vigilance(like one rank out of Accuracy). I found the extra second of immobilize to be helpful for using Master Strike or positioning for follow-up abilities/pushing, but that is purely a matter of preference. As for Guard Stance and Warding Call, while nice, I have my concerns. I dislike Guard Stance because it is your Defenses, i.e., block, dodge, parry, deflect, and not straight damage reduction. Warding Call is very nice, but I feel like to get that you drop too much utility and damage from the DoTs and Plasma Brand, since you would be filling the gap in the cooldown rotation with regular Slash. Not necessarily a bad set-up, but it drops a little too much damage for my taste.

The short answer is yes, I generate enough focus to use Plasma Brand fairly often, but it usually isn't necessary more than once or twice on a given target in a PVP setting. With respect to leap and throw, a simple force push lets you use both. When that's not an option, you have Combat Focus. While PVE Vigilance is certainly meant for Shien form, I feel that it leaves you far too squishy in a PVP environment, where Soresu serves much better. To leave oneself as a glass cannon would be far more gimping, as a dead DPS does no DPS, but I can't make you consider the benefits if you don't want to.

Operatives do ignore almost all of your armor with their primary abilities, the ~5% difference you're seeing in health pools in indicative of the 6% damage reduction from Soresu. That said, in that situation, it can make the difference between being in execute range, or not. But I would surely hope that if an Operative started his opener on you, you wouldn't just let him beat on you. The beauty of this spec, when fighting an operative, is that multiple sources of 20% flat damage reduction and immunity to CC from unremitting, coupled with DoTs to break their vanish, will give you an edge. Operatives are, easily, the hardest of fights for a Guardian(in my experience). If I get opened on, when possible, I try to use the cc breaker> force push > force leap > and apply a DoT. That starts the 20% damage reduction rolling, and your cc immunity too. Gives you a better shot at beating them. =p Against other classes like both Sith Warrior classes, both Bounty Hunter classes(less so for pyros), Snipers, and Assassins you see the armor bonus play a larger role.

In my experience, you can still bring all of your burst to bear in Soresu form exactly when you need it, so you still have all of those high damage abilities coming one after another. I've just found it to be more effective to try and balance between abilities, not cherry picking through gear. A larger health pool is nice, but outright damage reduction wins in my book.

Also, worth pointing out, knockdown/stun/sleeps used while you have unremitting up are ignored and you still generate the free focus.

You trade 6% total damage and 6% melee damage for vastly improved survivability. I played in Shien, and you die very quickly, like an absolute glass cannon, but in Soresu the damage lost is hardly noticed and you live much longer. As far as focus goes, nearly every Bladestorm is free from Momentum, every Force Sweep is free from Effluence, and with Saber Throw, Force Leap, Defiance, and Combat Focus you really never are focus starved. You have 12 guaranteed focus (Throw, leap, combat focus) to spend on 12 focus total abilities (4 Overhead, 5 Plasma Brand, 3 Dispatch). Defiance and Sundering Strike fills in the gaps perfectly.

Fair enough. It does definitely do more damage, and you have more resources to burn, I just found that unless I was guarded I took ungodly amounts of damage and went down way too easily, and far too quickly. In Soresu, I never have that happen, and resource management is fairly easy when you get used to it.

Some classes are slightly overtuned, but I agree with you wholeheartedly. When everyone is complaining about something different that means you've done a good job. It's when they all complain about the same thing that you have a problem.

I made a post about this kind of spec just a few minutes ago, goes in depth with a talent build, etc. I find the spec to be tremendously powerful and I have enjoyed it much more than Focus.

In my experience, the talent is very much worthwhile.