Why the lack of underwater content?

[Machine-Elf]

I can't believe some of the things I'm reading here. "Everyone hates underwater content", are you people for real?

That's like saying everyone hates racing games, or platforming, or whatever other feature/genre you can think of.

Some racing games suck, others are fantastic. Same applies to the platforming aspects of a game; it's all in the execution. Just because you didn't like GW2's underwater aspect—which, personally, I quite enjoyed—doesn't mean you wouldn't like a similar feature in SWTOR, provided its design was ingenious enough to cater to your personal tastes.

 

But anyway, onto the point: SWTOR was obviously released in a germinative state, as most of you know. However, its developers were smart enough to leave a foundation in place that could allow them to add certain elements—or rather, systems—to the game post-release. These can be found all over the place (I'm surprised more players haven't picked up on them), and include systems as potentially complex as vehicle hit points, weather cycles, counter-spying missions (Last Emperor Flashpoint), pazaak, swoop races, entertainment careers, player housing and yes, water-based shenanigans.

 

"But wait, what are you talking about? I've never seen anything in the game that suggests the potential inclusion of any water-based systems! Troll."

 

Well then, you aren't looking hard enough. Why don't you go ahead and go back to Ord Mantell. Do the class-quests there with either a Smuggler or a Trooper and count the number of times NPCs expressly state, loud and clear, the necessity of your having to swim across to Manett Point because the bridge is out. There's even a reference to the use of a hydro-speeder on the Trooper side. But then, when you get there, the water barely goes above knee length.

 

This vast body of water NPCs keep alluding to was obviously not meant to remain in its current puddle-like state indefinitely, and the reason why it was put in place in the first place was so that it might allow for the future inclusion of swimming/hydrospeeder features. This is why I keep going on about retroactive changes, it's essential that they preserve the original creators' vision: mostly because it seemed a heck of a lot cooler than anything we've gotten thus far.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[ObiJuanShenobi]

I hate water content. However, I do find it strange that I can Jesus my way across any body of water. Slightly immersion breaking....just feels half assed from a development standpoint

[MsMalice]

Would be cool if there was an underwater base or city, like in KOTOR, with maybe a mission or two that requires you to go outside the base in an atmospheric diving suit. The next planet is going to be Naboo, so fingers crossed!

[Morthaur]

Im playing from underwater right now and see plenty of content

[BaronV]

well Im not big on underwater content either and the KOTOR1 underwater animation was horrible. Plus those damn shark things scared the bejeezuz outa me!

 

Though others have made logical suppositions as to why - the game mechanics, the animation, etc

[BaronV]

But anyway, onto the point: SWTOR was obviously released in a germinative state, as most of you know. However, its developers were smart enough to leave a foundation in place that could allow them to add certain elements—or rather, systems—to the game post-release. These can be found all over the place (I'm surprised more players haven't picked up on them), and include systems as potentially complex as vehicle hit points, weather cycles, counter-spying missions (Last Emperor Flashpoint), pazaak, swoop races, entertainment careers, player housing and yes, water-based shenanigans.

 

"But wait, what are you talking about? I've never seen anything in the game that suggests the potential inclusion of any water-based systems! Troll."

 

Well then, you aren't looking hard enough. Why don't you go ahead and go back to Ord Mantell. Do the class-quests there with either a Smuggler or a Trooper and count the number of times NPCs expressly state, loud and clear, the necessity of your having to swim across to Manett Point because the bridge is out. There's even a reference to the use of a hydro-speeder on the Trooper side. But then, when you get there, the water barely goes above knee length.

 

This vast body of water NPCs keep alluding to was obviously not meant to remain in its current puddle-like state indefinitely, and the reason why it was put in place in the first place was so that it might allow for the future inclusion of swimming/hydrospeeder features. This is why I keep going on about retroactive changes, it's essential that they preserve the original creators' vision: mostly because it seemed a heck of a lot cooler than anything we've gotten thus far.

 

Unfortunately if this was true it would never come to pass now with the state of the game as it is being all about grabbing as much money as possible with as little effort as possible.

 

To me it sounds more like cut content that will never make it into the game as it was rushed to launch... like every other good game EA gets their grubby paws on.

 

Honestly cant think of a game EA hasnt ruined...

[branmakmuffin]

I would imagine because swimming is a whole new system to implement that they never implemented. Personally, I hate underwater combat. I do like swimming and seeing cool stuff underwater, but I hate actual water combat. GW2 was kind of cool though, with the water weapon changes.

I was indifferent to underwater content in DDO. Once you get something that lets you breathe underwater, it's no different from other content, so my attitude is "Why bother?"

[chuixupu]

I can't believe some of the things I'm reading here. "Everyone hates underwater content", are you people for real?

That's like saying everyone hates racing games, or platforming, or whatever other feature/genre you can think of.

 

A game that is designed to be one of those things is fine, people who like them will be attracted to them. Forcing people into underwater space in a game that isn't initially designed for having enemies below and diagonal to your field of vision is torture. SWTOR isn't designed for this, it would probably suck worse than WoW's hellish water worlds.

[Jenzali]

Vashj'ir was my favorite zone in WoW. World PvP was incredible there. The scenery was excellently memorable. There was nothing quite like exploring the deepest depths of the ocean, and then going deeper and deeper.

 

Of course... it was because I was a Druid, with the speed-of-light-swimming Manatee shapeshift form. I could see why others would hate it though, lol.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Jenzali

[chuixupu]

Vashj'ir was my favorite zone in WoW. World PvP was incredible there. The scenery was excellently memorable. There was nothing quite like exploring the deepest depths of the ocean, and then going deeper and deeper.

 

Of course... it was because I was a Druid, with the speed-of-light-swimming Manatee shapeshift form. I could see why others would hate it though, lol.

 

Meh, I had a druid and I didn't even like it then except when I was picking herbs. There was one area I used to just circle around for hours.

 

You were definitely in the minority, though. Search and you will find Blizzard stating that they understand how unpopular that zone was and how they will never do something like it again.

[OddballEasyEight]

KOTOR 1 did it.

 

How come there's no water in this game more than 2 feet deep?

 

Next planet should be Manaan For your background environment scenery you could just do one big ocean and sky....pretty easy for you Bioware right?

 

And the area would be exactly the same as KOTOR 1...on a big platform..and all the content would be underwater inside the base.

 

I would love to use my seeker droid underwater wearing a diving suit. Like the rarest of rare items would be found there or something.

 

Because the underwater content in KotOR was horrible?

And because developing underwater content would take about as much time as developing a whole new expansion (and i mean real expansion, not just the 10$ dlc we got).

 

And lastly, because parts of the playerbase would think it was pointless and a waste of time and effort.

[chuuuuucky]

Hero Engine supports under water areas since alpha -.- Edited July 12, 2013 by chuuuuucky

[Hockaday]

Because underwater content is the absolute most horrible thing to ever exist in video games?

 

QFT. Underwater content SUCKS. I like the chance to explore...but fighting underwater, using breath potions, having to go through mazes before breath runs out...no...no...and no! Also this has been discussed to death during beta / launch. You need a time machine...and a diary to write in.

 

Also, use the search bar.

 

Edit: Why not make -one- giant thread with your ra...questions.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Hockaday

[Machine-Elf]

Because the underwater content in KotOR was horrible?

And because developing underwater content would take about as much time as developing a whole new expansion (and i mean real expansion, not just the 10$ dlc we got).

 

And lastly, because parts of the playerbase would think it was pointless and a waste of time and effort.

I counted two ludicrous statements out of a possible three in this paragraph.

I suppose it really could be worse then, couldn't it?

[Machine-Elf]

A game that is designed to be one of those things is fine, people who like them will be attracted to them. Forcing people into underwater space in a game that isn't initially designed for having enemies below and diagonal to your field of vision is torture.

By your reasoning, then every single game that breaks away from its core gameplay (also known as diversity) is torture. Poor old GTA series.

 

Also, SWTOR was designed for some kind of water-based mechanic, that much is pretty clear.

[JPryde]

Could you elaborate a bit, how a fight underwater would work ?

 

Or do you just mean a normal oxygene athmosphere that was placed under water, but the chars wouldn't get wet while fighting?

 

Using a flame thrower skill underwater surely got an impressive effect

 

I guess, the whole combat would be needed to be totally revamped. Almost every animation would need to be changed, most attack skills would need modifications or new "underwater" rules.

 

And to what gain? What is the positive effect that makes all this work worthwhile, when it could also be put into (much needed) content updates of traditional nature?

[Machine-Elf]

Could you elaborate a bit, how a fight underwater would work ?

 

Or do you just mean a normal oxygene athmosphere that was placed under water, but the chars wouldn't get wet while fighting?

 

Using a flame thrower skill underwater surely got an impressive effect

 

I guess, the whole combat would be needed to be totally revamped. Almost every animation would need to be changed, most attack skills would need modifications or new "underwater" rules.

 

And to what gain? What is the positive effect that makes all this work worthwhile, when it could also be put into (much needed) content updates of traditional nature?

"Much needed" content of a traditional nature? I hope you don't mean MORE Flashpoints and Operations...do you?

But to answer your question, the benefit would be that it would bring diversity to the game. And that's what's really "much needed" in SWTOR.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[aeterno]

While I'd like to see Manaan very very much I wouldn't call what KOTOR did underwater content.

 

It had a bit on an underwater station and a short walk in a pressure suit that was about as annoying as KOTOR II paragus spacewalk bit.

 

Personally I'm not really missing the water thing the way mmos usually do it.

 

Tho granted, it should be in on say Ord Mantel. If you're gonna do water planets having exhaustion zone above your ankles is laaaaaaaame. If they weren't going to do a lame swimming bit then they shouldn't have designed planets with islands and lakes and whatnot. This half tooshied approach just contributes to the feeling that TOR doesn't have a game world in anything but the shallowest stage prop scenery sense.

[JPryde]

"Much needed" content of a traditional nature? I hope you don't mean MORE Flashpoints and Operations...do you?

Take 10 players and you get 11 definitions of content.

I mean more stuff to do in general without overly repeating stuff that you were doing for a while already. This does include, but is not limited to new FPs and OPs.

 

And could you now please answer my question as this is otherwise going off-topic and the OP doesn't like their threads derailed.

 

How would an underwater fight work?

Edited July 12, 2013 by JPryde

[Machine-Elf]

While I'd like to see Manaan very very much I wouldn't call what KOTOR did underwater content.

 

It had a bit on an underwater station and a short walk in a pressure suit that was about as annoying as KOTOR II paragus spacewalk bit.

 

Personally I'm not really missing the water thing the way mmos usually do it.

 

Tho granted, it should be in on say Ord Mantel. If you're gonna do water planets having exhaustion zone above your ankles is laaaaaaaame. If they weren't going to do a lame swimming bit then they shouldn't have designed planets with islands and lakes and whatnot. This half tooshied approach just contributes to the feeling that TOR doesn't have a game world in anything but the shallowest stage prop scenery sense.

Ord Mantell was designed for some kind of water-based system which would have probably included (and, here's hoping...WILL include) both swimming and hydro-speeders components.

[Machine-Elf]

Take 10 players and you get 11 definitions of content.

I mean more stuff to do in general without overly repeating stuff that you were doing for a while already. This does include, but is not limited to new FPs and OPs.

 

And could you now please answer my question as this is otherwise going off-topic and the OP doesn't like their threads derailed.

 

How would an underwater fight work?

Who says there has to be fights? It could involve some kind of pseudo-platforming...like in the old Super Mario games, where your first and foremost objective was to avoid touching the fishes, not necessarily fight them. There might also be the puzzles involved, or time-based quests in which the player has to run against the clock (before his oxygen runs out)

But if fighting absolutely needs to be done, there are aquatic lightsabers the Nautolans use, I suppose—thought it wouldn't make much sense to introduce them in early levels like Ord Mantell (one of the few examples of planets in SWTOR that was clearly designed with water-based systems in mind)...

Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Hockaday]

 

Also, SWTOR was designed for some kind of water-based mechanic, that much is pretty clear.

 

Except for anything the devs have said...it's always been "we have no current plans for water content" yada yada, you're reading too far into things. It's called backstory, setting, etc. One of my toons has a giant cult...yet I don't get nor are there any hints at economics / political gameplay. But from your reasonings, there is.

[JPryde]

Who says there has to be fights? It could involve some kind of pseudo-platforming...like in the old Super Mario games, where your first and foremost objective was to avoid touching the fishes, not necessarily fight them. There might also be the puzzles involved, or time-based quests in which the player has to run against the clock (before his oxygen runs out)

But if fighting absolutely needs to be done, there are aquatic lightsabers the Nautolans use, I suppose; thought it wouldn't make much sense to introduce them in early levels like Ord Mantell (one of the few examples of planets in SWTOR that was clearly designed with water-based systems in mind)...

uh oh... better brace yourself.

 

While I personally come from a roleplayer perspective and am perfectly okay with not killing anything for a week (except wookiee. I need at least one dead wookiee per day), I heard a lot of complaining both in game and on these forums about quests involving super-marioesque style.

I have done the bino-endquest a dozen times by now and would love if it were repeatable, but other totally hated the puzzle and jumping aspects of it. Many will argue that the IP reads StarWars not StarJumps or similar.

And as good as the bioncular and seed endquests are, they are "one shot" missions, you do them once and then they are over. Such content is faster consumed than produced and as such will create a lot of complaints rather than soothen some.

[Hockaday]

Who says there has to be fights? It could involve some kind of pseudo-platforming...like in the old Super Mario games, where your first and foremost objective was to avoid touching the fishes, not necessarily fight them. There might also be the puzzles involved, or time-based quests in which the player has to run against the clock (before his oxygen runs out)

But if fighting absolutely needs to be done, there are aquatic lightsabers the Nautolans use, I suppose; thought it wouldn't make much sense to introduce them in early levels like Ord Mantell (one of the few examples of planets in SWTOR that was clearly designed with water-based systems in mind)...

 

No...this game has horrible physics. HORRIBLE! Especially for platforming. As for puzzles, iirc, OPs were going to be much more puzzle fights etc...but it had to be cut down. As you can see from the EV Op.

[StreaMRoLLeR]

Hero Engine capable of Swimming and underwater mechanics so they CAN add it.